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Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part V: Zib-a-dabba-do

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:03 PM
  #126
Tawnos
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I have no problem with AV's comments because they were pretty respectful to the man. I didn't have a huge problem with Tortorella's comment about Hagelin at the time, provided that Tortorella has identified that motivational method as the right one for that particular player... but I would prefer that the coach speak of his players respectfully as one human to another in the media. That's what AV did in regards to DZ.

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:08 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
What is "trashing"? Saying he's not been consistent? Give me a break. He's a professional hockey player, playing HORRIBLY this season. That criticism is absolutely warranted. Now if he said "he's bad" or "I don't trust him" yeah, that's unnecessary. But this is a slight criticism that a high school player can take.

And funny, no one complained when AV made his moon comment on Pouliot.
Quote:
Dreger was asked if the relationship wasn’t that good between Del Zotto and Alain Vignealut and said, “correct. Alain Vigneault took a bit of a swipe, or at least was very honest in answering a question about why Michael Del Zotto isn’t playing consistently for the Rangers today. He said that Del Zotto isn’t playing consistently enough and that sort of boils it down. The problem that Del Zotto has in the Rangers lineup is that he is playing as a third pairing guy behind the likes of McDonagh and Marc Staal on the right side so Glen Sather has been making calls and he has been receiving calls on Del Zotto.
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/20...-zotto-rumors/

Is MDZ really a bigger defensive liability over Falk/Moore? Why hasn't Stepan been called out? Pyatt? Richards? Callahan? Dorsett? Boyle? Pouliot? Falk? John Moore? All pretty inconsistent players so far this season, some bordering on HORRIBLE more nights than not this season. This entire team has been wildly inconsistent. Why single out MDZ? He has the highest trade value and obviously is getting shopped and will be gone sooner rather than later and the way AV speaks of him surely can't be helping the Rangers get top dollar for him. Just doesn't seem like a good look, maybe it's just me.


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Old
11-20-2013, 09:11 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/20...-zotto-rumors/

Why hasn't Stepan been called out? Pyatt? Richards? Callahan? Dorsett? Boyle? Pouliot? Falk? John Moore? All pretty inconsistent players so far this season, some bordering on HORRIBLE more nights than not this season. This entire team has been wildly inconsistent. Why single out MDZ? He has the highest trade value and obviously is getting shopped and will be gone sooner rather than later and the way AV speaks of him surely can't be helping the Rangers get top dollar for him.
Might be reading into it a bit too much, he was asked about Del Zotto sitting. Had he been asked about all those other players? He gave an honest but fair answer. MDZ is a better player than he's shown recently.

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11-20-2013, 09:15 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/20...-zotto-rumors/

Is MDZ really a bigger defensive liability over Falk/Moore? Why hasn't Stepan been called out? Pyatt? Richards? Callahan? Dorsett? Boyle? Pouliot? Falk? John Moore? All pretty inconsistent players so far this season, some bordering on HORRIBLE more nights than not this season. This entire team has been wildly inconsistent. Why single out MDZ? He has the highest trade value and obviously is getting shopped and will be gone sooner rather than later and the way AV speaks of him surely can't be helping the Rangers get top dollar for him. Just doesn't seem like a good look, maybe it's just me.
What Barb said. You're totally reaching. He was interviewed on Del Zotto. He was never asked "who is underachieving on your team and why?" Unless that's what you wanted from him, to just call out players not doing well.

And Dorsett? Really? What's wrong with him?

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11-20-2013, 09:15 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Might be reaching into it a bit too much, he was asked about Del Zotto sitting. Had he been asked about all those other players? He gave an honest but fair answer. MDZ is a better player than he's shown recently.
And most of the GMs know that. Saying he's been inconsistent to the media is one thing. If GMs are on the phone with Sather asking "what's up with this guy", most likely what Sather is telling them is that AV really doesn't have the ice time to give DZ in order for him to be consistent, followed by "In AV's position, who are you going to take the ice time from? Staal? McDonagh? The kid is a good player, though. Just a tough situation. I want to do what's best for him and sometimes that means a trade." I don't think comments like this hurt a player's value in the real world. Only on message boards.

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11-20-2013, 09:15 PM
  #131
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I don't have an issue with AV's comments.

What I do have a problem with is that it seems like someone in the organization is feeding AV inaccurate info about DZ - he seems very surprised about DZ's inconsistency regarding his offensive ability, his shot, and PP ability. DZ's struggles with consistency has been a problem since he came into the league and one would assume that the organization would have informed AV of this.
DZ seems to play his best hockey when people have faith in him. He played his best hockey while Staal was out and now that he's been moved to the right side, demoted and benched, I think it will be hard for him to gain his confidence back.

And holy **** do I miss his stretch passes. Torts neutered his best attribute.

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11-20-2013, 09:18 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Might be reaching into it a bit too much, he was asked about Del Zotto sitting. Had he been asked about all those other players? He gave an honest but fair answer. MDZ is a better player than he's shown recently.
Flimsy. "Because you didn't ask me the right question, I didn't need to address it!" AV is the coach of this team. He's the one who should be paying attention to everything, or be getting information on everything player-related. What ever happened to that eye-in-the-sky coach that was supposed to help? So guys like Pyatt and Pouliot get passes because they haven't been asked about specifically? Are they just invisible until that day comes? Does AV just turn a blind eye to what they do because no one asks about them, so he doesn't pay attention or care to pay attention? I don't get it.

And I'd imagine having a guy like MDZ on the 3rd pair would be a great thing for depth.

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11-20-2013, 09:19 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
What Barb said. You're totally reaching. He was interviewed on Del Zotto. He was never asked "who is underachieving on your team and why?" Unless that's what you wanted from him, to just call out players not doing well.

And Dorsett? Really? What's wrong with him?
He takes dumb penalties!

Dorsett is playing pretty well of late and had stopped taking as many penalties. Get him to toe the line and he's very effective in my opinion. I think that line could start scoring at some point well at least Moore and Dorsett.

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:21 PM
  #134
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Except for him trashing his own player? Especially one he is trying to trade?
That was a pretty honest assessment of Del Zotto's play so far. Hardly a trashing.

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:22 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
Flimsy. "Because you didn't ask me the right question, I didn't need to address it!" So guys like Pyatt and Pouliot get passes because they haven't been asked about specifically? Does AV just turn a blind eye to what they do because no one asks about them, so he doesn't pay attention? I don't get it.

And I'd imagine having a guy like MDZ on the 3rd pair would be a great thing for depth.
To your last, MDZ's value in trade exceeds his value as a 3rd pair D.

To the first part, how is that flimsy? You want to know what's flimsy? The logic that, because AV hasn't said anything to the media about Pyatt and Pouliot, it means he hasn't spoken to those players about their performance. Beyond that, he has called out Pouliot to the media, but that's besides the point. You have no idea... no idea, and neither do the rest of us, what AV has said in the locker room and behind closed doors.

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:22 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
And most of the GMs know that. Saying he's been inconsistent to the media is one thing. If GMs are on the phone with Sather asking "what's up with this guy", most likely what Sather is telling them is that AV really doesn't have the ice time to give DZ in order for him to be consistent, followed by "In AV's position, who are you going to take the ice time from? Staal? McDonagh? The kid is a good player, though. Just a tough situation. I want to do what's best for him and sometimes that means a trade." I don't think comments like this hurt a player's value in the real world. Only on message boards.
Except it's Moore and Falk who are getting his minutes, not McD or Staal.
AV should have deflected the question to something like the whole team has been inconsistent and he is adjusting to the system and what not. Otherwise he is singling out DZ.
DZ is a big boy and should handle it, but it's not reflecting well on AV.

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11-20-2013, 09:23 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Except it's Moore and Falk who are getting his minutes, not McD or Staal.
AV should have deflected the question to something like the whole team has been inconsistent and he is adjusting to the system and what not. Otherwise he is singling out DZ.
DZ is a big boy and should handle it, but it's not reflecting well on AV.
Yeah, read what I wrote again. The "quoted" part is a follow up to the first part, which is that DZ needs minutes to be consistent. That doesn't mean 3rd pair minutes. It means solid minutes. His TOI/G is down 4-5 minutes from last season, where he mostly on the left side, and the season before, where he played nearly exclusively on the left side. It's no mistake that he's looked his best playing top-4 minutes in his natural position. Those minutes no longer exist for him on this team.

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:25 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/20...-zotto-rumors/

Is MDZ really a bigger defensive liability over Falk/Moore? Why hasn't Stepan been called out? Pyatt? Richards? Callahan? Dorsett? Boyle? Pouliot? Falk? John Moore? All pretty inconsistent players so far this season, some bordering on HORRIBLE more nights than not this season. This entire team has been wildly inconsistent. Why single out MDZ? He has the highest trade value and obviously is getting shopped and will be gone sooner rather than later and the way AV speaks of him surely can't be helping the Rangers get top dollar for him. Just doesn't seem like a good look, maybe it's just me.
Basically the expectations should be for MDZ to be the pwp QB that he hasn't been. He shouldn't be on the right side IMO but Del Zotto is nowhere near the best offensive d-men in the league whether it's Doughty, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Letang, Green etc.--he's not in the conversation. He's not a leader.

40 point seasons were okay a couple years ago. People have complained the last few years ad nauseum how are pwp sucks but when you don't have a big threat from the blueline that hurts the pwp a lot. DZ needs to step into the 50-55 point range anyway. I don't see it happening--at least not here--and now that McDonagh seems at least capable of putting up the same offense maybe even more DZ's role on the team has been further marginalized. Maybe it's not fair--he shouldn't be on the right side but our two best d-men McDonagh and Staal are left side guys and competing for ice time with those two is not going to leave him a lot.

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Old
11-20-2013, 09:28 PM
  #139
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Yeah, read what I wrote again. The "quoted" part is a follow up to the first part, which is that DZ needs minutes to be consistent.
That's your opinion.
He is being scratched in favor of Moore and Falk, that's a fact.

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11-20-2013, 09:31 PM
  #140
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Why would Sens trade Zibanejad? It'd be like us entertaining the idea of trading Kreider.

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11-20-2013, 09:32 PM
  #141
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Flimsy. "Because you didn't ask me the right question, I didn't need to address it!" AV is the coach of this team. He's the one who should be paying attention to everything, or be getting information on everything player-related. What ever happened to that eye-in-the-sky coach that was supposed to help? So guys like Pyatt and Pouliot get passes because they haven't been asked about specifically? Are they just invisible until that day comes? Does AV just turn a blind eye to what they do because no one asks about them, so he doesn't pay attention or care to pay attention? I don't get it.

And I'd imagine having a guy like MDZ on the 3rd pair would be a great thing for depth.
Yeah you're definitely reaching. Just because MDZ has been sat down when Pyatt and Pouliot haven't doesn't mean anything. Pouliot has been moved down the lineup and benched several times, as have most other players that haven't played well. Pyatt hasn't been that bad, I know it's the popular thing to **** on him every chance you get. But honestly, his board work on the forecheck was actually pretty strong. I'd love to replace him with a better option but he has been serviceable. That's not on the coach.

He can only answer the questions he's asked, if a similar question was asked about any of those players you named I am sure he would give an honest answer.

I defended Torts after the Hagelin comments and AV's are much softer than that.

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11-20-2013, 09:38 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
That's your opinion.
He is being scratched in favor of Moore and Falk, that's a fact.
Moore and Falk aren't taking the minutes the player needs to be effective when he's playing, is the point. We're not talking about my opinion here... we're talking about what Sather tells other GMs when they talk about DZ. I'm pretty certain that my characterization is very close to accurate, minus the cigar chewing.

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11-20-2013, 09:38 PM
  #143
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I wonder what you could get from Vancouver for John Moore hypothetically. We know how much Torts loves John Moore. Borderline creepy.

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11-20-2013, 09:41 PM
  #144
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To your last, MDZ's value in trade exceeds his value as a 3rd pair D.

To the first part, how is that flimsy? You want to know what's flimsy? The logic that, because AV hasn't said anything to the media about Pyatt and Pouliot, it means he hasn't spoken to those players about their performance. Beyond that, he has called out Pouliot to the media, but that's besides the point. You have no idea... no idea, and neither do the rest of us, what AV has said in the locker room and behind closed doors.
Could have fooled me with the way Pyatt/Pouliot keep getting ice time and keep sucking, while 23-year-old MDZ is labeled inconsistent and scratched for 3 games in a row. Lol so he calls Pouliot inconsistent too and doesn't scratch him for playing terribly. Still no real accountability. Pyatt and Pouliot still getting ~15 minutes a game while sucking all 15 minutes and hurting the team isn't accountability to me, or enforcing "you only get so many kicks at the can." That just says "Ehh let's do whatever, maybe some **** will stick to the wall."

You're right, none of us know what was said. But whatever was said didn't do anything to light any fires under Pyatt or Pouliot's ass. Not ******** on them to be trendy, ******** on them because they're **** players and 2 or 3 strong plays along the boards doesn't make me think any differently about everything else they do.

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11-20-2013, 09:47 PM
  #145
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Yeah you're definitely reaching. Just because MDZ has been sat down when Pyatt and Pouliot haven't doesn't mean anything. Pouliot has been moved down the lineup and benched several times, as have most other players that haven't played well. Pyatt hasn't been that bad, I know it's the popular thing to **** on him every chance you get. But honestly, his board work on the forecheck was actually pretty strong. I'd love to replace him with a better option but he has been serviceable. That's not on the coach.

He can only answer the questions he's asked, if a similar question was asked about any of those players you named I am sure he would give an honest answer.

I defended Torts after the Hagelin comments and AV's are much softer than that.
Oo, striking fear into the hearts of men by moving them from the 3rd line to the 4th line and giving them 12-13 minutes of playtime instead of 15. Serious stuff.

Lol he can only answer what he's asked..I don't even know what to say about that. I'm just going to stop here then.

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11-20-2013, 09:51 PM
  #146
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Could have fooled me with the way Pyatt/Pouliot keep getting ice time and keep sucking, while 23-year-old MDZ is labeled inconsistent and scratched for 3 games in a row. Lol so he calls Pouliot inconsistent too and doesn't scratch him for playing terribly. Still no real accountability. Pyatt and Pouliot still getting ~15 minutes a game while sucking all 15 minutes and hurting the team isn't accountability to me, or enforcing "you only get so many kicks at the can." That just says "Ehh let's do whatever, maybe some **** will stick to the wall."

You're right, none of us know what was said. But whatever was said didn't do anything to light any fires under Pyatt or Pouliot's ass.
I think you expect too much out of Pyatt... certainly far more than AV seems to... and more than I do. Pyatt is fine, people just think he should do more because he came into the league touted with more talent.

Pouliot is way more of a head scratcher. I do get the feeling that a lot of Rangers fans also expect Pouliot to be able to maximize his skills. We should know better and if we do, we know who this player is at this point... and expecting him to maximize his tool set is just setting yourself up for disappointment. What I don't understand is why he's seemingly incapable of producing even the way he has produced in his NHL career. The guy is nothing more than a 3rd liner. But on that, he has produced like an offensively capable 3rd liner in 5-on-5 situations for most of his career. 2 goals in 21 games would represent 8 over 82. That's not even half of his 17.8 goals per 82 over the course of his career. It really just doesn't make sense. My only theory is that it's a confidence issue. He was asked to play a top-6 role at the beginning of the year with our injuries. He's not a top-6 player and his inability to perform as one when asked has shot his confidence through the floor. I don't know.

Anyway... you're harping too much on other guys. AV's job isn't to treat everyone the same. This is a competent coach. I trust his judgment on how to handle his players.

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11-20-2013, 09:52 PM
  #147
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That's your opinion.
He is being scratched in favor of Moore and Falk, that's a fact.
It's also a fact he plays his best hockey slotted in to where he is currently unable to due to the depth the Rangers have on D. Yes, when he is scratched Moore and Falk are taking his 3rd pairing minutes which he only has (get ready for it, I know this is hard to understand) BECAUSE HE IS 3rd ON THE DEPTH CHART BEHIND STAAL AND McDONAGH.

This has nothing to do with other bottom pairing d-men taking his 3rd pairing minutes and everything to do with not having a spot in the roster for him to get optimal minutes and given an opportunity to succeed.

The powerplay is the only exception to that and as of late not even because McD has looked far better this year so far on the 1st unit.

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11-20-2013, 10:00 PM
  #148
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That's your opinion.
He is being scratched in favor of Moore and Falk, that's a fact.

Krearary, Prease.


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11-20-2013, 10:09 PM
  #149
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I think you expect too much out of Pyatt... certainly far more than AV seems to... and more than I do. Pyatt is fine, people just think he should do more because he came into the league touted with more talent.

Pouliot is way more of a head scratcher. I do get the feeling that a lot of Rangers fans also expect Pouliot to be able to maximize his skills. We should know better and if we do, we know who this player is at this point... and expecting him to maximize his tool set is just setting yourself up for disappointment. What I don't understand is why he's seemingly incapable of producing even the way he has produced in his NHL career. The guy is nothing more than a 3rd liner. But on that, he has produced like an offensively capable 3rd liner in 5-on-5 situations for most of his career. 2 goals in 21 games would represent 8 over 82. That's not even half of his 17.8 goals per 82 over the course of his career. It really just doesn't make sense. My only theory is that it's a confidence issue. He was asked to play a top-6 role at the beginning of the year with our injuries. He's not a top-6 player and his inability to perform as one when asked has shot his confidence through the floor. I don't know.

Anyway... you're harping too much on other guys. AV's job isn't to treat everyone the same. This is a competent coach. I trust his judgment on how to handle his players.
I don't think it's too much to expect him to, at the very least, not hurt the team when he's on the ice. While yes, there were a handful of times (mostly from the last ~3-4 games I think) where at first I couldn't tell who was scrumming along the boards only to see it was Pyatt buying time, I was pleasantly surprised and very happy to see him doing what he was doing. But I can recall more times Pyatt has directly hurt or hindered the team with his play. I'm positive losing his fiancee and the year off have played enormous roles in turning him into the player we see now, much more than being relegated to 3rd/4th line duty.

And I apologize to you and Barbara for getting a little snippy. The things that happen with this team make me want to pull out my hair sometimes.

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11-20-2013, 10:23 PM
  #150
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Oo, striking fear into the hearts of men by moving them from the 3rd line to the 4th line and giving them 12-13 minutes of playtime instead of 15. Serious stuff.

Lol he can only answer what he's asked..I don't even know what to say about that. I'm just going to stop here then.

Edit: Didn't see your apology. It's all good. Wasn't trying to attack you, just offering a different view.

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