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Markov wants to stay in Montreal and wants one more contract

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Old
11-21-2013, 09:48 AM
  #276
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'd be very curious to know what kind of deal we could broker with Edmonton for Markov. They are desperate for a top guy that can play 25+ and contribute offensively.
They would never make a deal unless he was signed or they could talk to him and have the framework of an extension. It would be super dumb to trade assets for him and have him leave July 1st when they are almost guaranteed to miss the playoffs this year.

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11-21-2013, 11:30 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Last year was different. 1-it was his first full year(played KHL 1st half) after missing nearly 2 full years 2-it was a very condensed schedule with less days off 3-Subban missed time early on giving more responsibility and ice time the first 2-3 weeks.
Last year was different but can easily be repeated...........

1. Inconclusive. Why did Markov slow down? Because of what you say or because he's approaching 35 rapidly?

2. This will be a condensed schedule as well because of the Olympics. And let's not forget Markov will be a participant.

3. Subban missing time? There is a risk of injury(s) at anytime with any D that could sideline them for more than that time frame. And this team has extended history of that in the last six years.

If Markov makes it through this season with flying colors I'd be more inclined to think a longer term and a high wage is appealing. But I'm not sold on a knee jerk (no pun intended) decision to extend now because of a few accomplishments after a month and a half.

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11-21-2013, 11:40 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
They would never make a deal unless he was signed or they could talk to him and have the framework of an extension. It would be super dumb to trade assets for him and have him leave July 1st when they are almost guaranteed to miss the playoffs this year.
That goes without saying, why would a lottery team trade kids for a rental?..
So ya, assuming he's either signed to an extension or in talks with Edmonton. I'd be curious to know what we could pry away from them.

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11-21-2013, 12:06 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Last year was different but can easily be repeated...........

1. Inconclusive. Why did Markov slow down? Because of what you say or because he's approaching 35 rapidly?

2. This will be a condensed schedule as well because of the Olympics. And let's not forget Markov will be a participant.

3. Subban missing time? There is a risk of injury(s) at anytime with any D that could sideline them for more than that time frame. And this team has extended history of that in the last six years.

If Markov makes it through this season with flying colors I'd be more inclined to think a longer term and a high wage is appealing. But I'm not sold on a knee jerk (no pun intended) decision to extend now because of a few accomplishments after a month and a half.
There is a difference from slowing down as a player as you age or getting worn down and your play in March is not the same as your play in October. The former would not make a player better in game 1 than game 40, the latter can happen to a younger player or an older player.

The schedule this year is nowhere near as condensed as last year. This season it will take 53 days(Nov 22nd) to play 23 games, last year it only took 46(March 5th). That's a week more of of days off in only about 1/4 of the season.

Markov has been back playing for 21 months after his last knee injury or setback. Plus if anything his legs look better this yaer than last, he appears to me to be moving better than at any point last year.

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11-21-2013, 12:07 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That goes without saying, why would a lottery team trade kids for a rental?..
So ya, assuming he's either signed to an extension or in talks with Edmonton. I'd be curious to know what we could pry away from them.
I'm not adverse to making the call, just don't see Edmonton trading us Eberle or Hall. Most likely will want to offer kids like we already have.

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11-21-2013, 01:38 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
There is a difference from slowing down as a player as you age or getting worn down and your play in March is not the same as your play in October. The former would not make a player better in game 1 than game 40, the latter can happen to a younger player or an older player.

The schedule this year is nowhere near as condensed as last year. This season it will take 53 days(Nov 22nd) to play 23 games, last year it only took 46(March 5th). That's a week more of of days off in only about 1/4 of the season.

Markov has been back playing for 21 months after his last knee injury or setback. Plus if anything his legs look better this yaer than last, he appears to me to be moving better than at any point last year.
That was kinda my point. IMHO this year will be the better indicator thus I'd wait until the end of the year to extend Markov if that is the plan.

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11-21-2013, 01:49 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
That was kinda my point. IMHO this year will be the better indicator thus I'd wait until the end of the year to extend Markov if that is the plan.
Even if Markov slows down a bit, what is the next best option on this unit? There is nobody on this roster that is good enough or ready to take that kind of role away from him for at least 2 years, and that is being optimistic.

This team NEEDS Markov.

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11-21-2013, 01:53 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Even if Markov slows down a bit, what is the next best option on this unit? There is nobody on this roster that is good enough or ready to take that kind of role away from him for at least 2 years, and that is being optimistic.

This team NEEDS Markov.
Agreed with this, however, he's probably going to want to tack on more contract years than he'll be able to be productive/healthy for. At what point does he become too onerous?

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11-21-2013, 02:01 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That goes without saying, why would a lottery team trade kids for a rental?..
So ya, assuming he's either signed to an extension or in talks with Edmonton. I'd be curious to know what we could pry away from them.
Do you really think Markov would want to end his career in that trainwreck? He has a NTC too. You aren't going to trade him to a horrible situation in the middle of nowhere.

At this point it should be obvious Edmonton isn't one piece away. They are still a disaster.

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11-21-2013, 02:03 PM
  #285
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Markov has a limited NTC, can list up to 16 teams he will not accept trade to -- that list probably includes the likes of EDM.

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11-21-2013, 02:04 PM
  #286
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I'm dreaming, but it would be so cool if Markov would accept a trade to Edmonton for, let's say, a good young player and/or their 1st round pick, then Habs' sign Markov nonetheless in the offseason!

I know, I know...

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11-21-2013, 02:05 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Even if Markov slows down a bit, what is the next best option on this unit? There is nobody on this roster that is good enough or ready to take that kind of role away from him for at least 2 years, and that is being optimistic.

This team NEEDS Markov.
I agree it is a quandary. But the Habs, without Markov, beat the Pens and entered the conference finals so it isn't like it's impossible. He's been a quandary since he's been a Hab: non-performer in the playoffs and oft injured. That's when he was younger.

Please understand - I'm not saying to not re-sign him. I'm just hesitant on term and salary.

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11-21-2013, 02:05 PM
  #288
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That was kinda my point. IMHO this year will be the better indicator thus I'd wait until the end of the year to extend Markov if that is the plan.
There is a price for waiting though. The closer a player gets to UFA usually the "hometown discount" shrinks.

If Markov has a monster year then his agent will be telling him he can get 7 mil/year on the UFA market.

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11-21-2013, 02:07 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
There is a price for waiting though. The closer a player gets to UFA usually the "hometown discount" shrinks.

If Markov has a monster year then his agent will be telling him he can get 7 mil/year on the UFA market.
But he JUST LOVES Montreal!

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11-21-2013, 02:12 PM
  #290
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Agreed with this, however, he's probably going to want to tack on more contract years than he'll be able to be productive/healthy for. At what point does he become too onerous?

Judging by how guys like kaberle, gonchar, and Schneider were able to extend their careers just because of their ability on the pp, I believe we can take the risk.

Say Markov signs 4 years. One would think that we can at least get 2 good years. Towards the end, he should be enticing on the trade market if the Habs prefer to deal him, if for nothing else than his pp prowess.

To me, the length of term has the potential to be more onerous than the money itself. 4 years is realistic IMO.

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11-21-2013, 02:23 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Judging by how guys like kaberle, gonchar, and Schneider were able to extend their careers just because of their ability on the pp, I believe we can take the risk.

Say Markov signs 4 years. One would think that we can at least get 2 good years. Towards the end, he should be enticing on the trade market if the Habs prefer to deal him, if for nothing else than his pp prowess.

To me, the length of term has the potential to be more onerous than the money itself. 4 years is realistic IMO.
Isn't Kaberle 35 and out of the league? Markov could be enticing if he doesn't have a NMC or NTC.

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11-21-2013, 02:43 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Isn't Kaberle 35 and out of the league? Markov could be enticing if he doesn't have a NMC or NTC.
Could be one of the trade-offs against a longer contractual term, although as a UFA and given the Habs needs at D, his current minutes, the quality of his play, he should have much more leverage than MB at this stage.

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11-21-2013, 02:51 PM
  #293
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Send him to Anaheim for one of those big forwards.

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11-21-2013, 04:14 PM
  #294
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Even if Markov slows down a bit, what is the next best option on this unit?
Again, this is a false argument. Markov isn't going to be the Markov we know in a couple of years anyway. We're GOING to lose this guy (at least the player who plays the way he does now anyway) to either trade or age. But he's not going to ever be any better than he is now.

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There is nobody on this roster that is good enough or ready to take that kind of role away from him for at least 2 years, and that is being optimistic.
So if you can (and that's a huge IF) trade him for a younger blueliner who maybe isn't as good but can play a number 2 role on our team and extend the window of winning. We're not contenders now anyway...
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This team NEEDS Markov.
To do what? Do you think we can contend this year? Next? What do we need Markov for if we can't do this?

Its not uncommon for guys his age to suddenly drop off either. Look at Iginla for example. At age 33 he's a 40+ over point per game player. At 34 he averages what would've been a 27 goal 60 point season and this year he's on pace for 12 goals and 48 points...

Yes, you can say he's on new teams but is there any doubt that he'd be a point per game if he was 31 or 32 years old? I don't think so.

If we're going to sign this guy... okay so be it. We ride him out and hope to win something soon I guess. But do it for no more than two years. Anything more is a mistake in my opinion. I hate the idea of having him until he's 38.

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11-21-2013, 04:21 PM
  #295
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Again, this is a false argument. Markov isn't going to be the Markov we know in a couple of years anyway. We're GOING to lose this guy (at least the player who plays the way he does now anyway) to either trade or age. But he's not going to ever be any better than he is now.
While it is unlikely that he improves, I find it unfair of you to act like it is guaranteed that Markov will never be any better than he is now. What's stopping him from having an even better season next year? Nothing, really.

There's no logic in your argument apart from making the unfair assumption that an increase in age ALWAYS means a decrease in skill. He's 34, it's not like he's extremely old and at the brink of retirement...

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11-21-2013, 04:27 PM
  #296
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While it is unlikely that he improves, I find it unfair of you to act like it is guaranteed that Markov will never be any better than he is now. What's stopping him from having an even better season next year? Nothing, really.

There's no logic in your argument apart from making the unfair assumption that an increase in age ALWAYS means a decrease in skill. He's 34, it's not like he's extremely old and at the brink of retirement...
There's no guarantee of anything in this world dude except for one thing... players get old, their skills decline with age and they eventually have to retire.

Markov could very well stay at this level for a while but most players don't. Folks sitting there talking about Lidstrom are talking like he's the rule... he's not. And we've already seen that Markov has lost a step when he was playing without Subban. He's already in decline.

Sure he could have a better year next year but its unrealistic to think that he's going to better next year and the year after and the year after... He's like every other player in the world - age slows you down.

There is NOTHING that is unfair or illogical about suggesting that as he ages his skills will decline. That is the most likely scenario, esp in light of what we've already seen from him.

Nobody said anything anywhere about a guarantee...

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11-21-2013, 04:34 PM
  #297
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There's no guarantee of anything in this world dude except for one thing... players get old, their skills decline with age and they eventually have to retire.

Markov could very well stay at this level for a while but most players don't. Folks sitting there talking about Lidstrom are talking like he's the rule... he's not. And we've already seen that Markov has lost a step when he was playing without Subban. He's already in decline.

Sure he could have a better year next year but its unrealistic to think that he's going to better next year and the year after and the year after... He's like every other player in the world - age slows you down.

There is NOTHING that is unfair or illogical about suggesting that as he ages his skills will decline. That is the most likely scenario, esp in light of what we've already seen from him.

Nobody said anything anywhere about a guarantee...
What I'm saying is unfair is how you all but confirmed that Markov could "never be better than he is now". It's just not a fair argument. He can easily keep up what he is doing now for a couple of years. We know he has the skill. Look at players like Elias: 37 years old and still able to produce at the same level he was when he was 34.

Seriously dude, 34 isn't that bad. And it's really not hard to imagine that Markov has an even better season next year. He's a valuable asset we need to keep.

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11-21-2013, 04:39 PM
  #298
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People are so mesmerized by the present. What you see from him now is not what you will from get from him in the playoffs. People talk about how Markov won't be the 'Markov' we know in 4 years time, forget about 4 years Markov in the playoffs won't even be the Markov you see now. When teams focus on shutting him down and put pressure on him he's a totally different player. We've see this numerous times, he under performs in the playoffs year after year. We're not winning the cup anytime soon so if we can get something good in return you have to be open to trading him.

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11-21-2013, 04:47 PM
  #299
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People are so mesmerized by the present. What you see from him now is not what you will from get from him in the playoffs. People talk about how Markov won't be the 'Markov' we know in 4 years time, forget about 4 years Markov in the playoffs won't even be the Markov you see now. When teams focus on shutting him down and put pressure on him he's a totally different player. We've see this numerous times, he under performs in the playoffs year after year. We're not winning the cup anytime soon so if we can get something good in return you have to be open to trading him.
The only time Markov had a team he could win with was 09-10 and he helped beat Washington before getting hurt vs Pittsburgh.

If you have a balanced defense then it's not all about Mrakov and he will be fine.

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11-21-2013, 05:01 PM
  #300
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What I'm saying is unfair is how you all but confirmed that Markov could "never be better than he is now". It's just not a fair argument. He can easily keep up what he is doing now for a couple of years. We know he has the skill. Look at players like Elias: 37 years old and still able to produce at the same level he was when he was 34.

Seriously dude, 34 isn't that bad. And it's really not hard to imagine that Markov has an even better season next year. He's a valuable asset we need to keep.
You can cherrypick players all you want... they are the exception not the rule. Like I said, Markov may have a better year next year but over the next few seasons it makes no sense to argue that he won't decline because in all likelyhood he will.

That's just how it goes man...
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The only time Markov had a team he could win with was 09-10 and he helped beat Washington before getting hurt vs Pittsburgh.

If you have a balanced defense then it's not all about Mrakov and he will be fine.
But we don't have a balanced defense...

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