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Old
11-21-2013, 01:50 PM
  #1
FreshPerspective
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Luca Sbisa

Posted this in another thread. Who would like him back somehow? Seems like he is off to a slow start in Anaheim after his injury. Do they really need him? Good young mobile guy. If I were Homer I would make a call to gauge interest.....

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11-21-2013, 01:57 PM
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Eh, never really been that high on him.

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Old
11-21-2013, 02:01 PM
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Most Ducks fans want him gone.

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Old
11-21-2013, 02:06 PM
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Most Ducks fans want him gone.
Good.....we can get him back while his stock is down..at least with the fans. The rub is if the GM wants to unload him although I would suspect they want a decent return. I bet he develops quicker than L Schenn....

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11-21-2013, 02:10 PM
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He's really 6'2", 207lbs?

He looked like a little kid when he played on the Flyers.

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11-21-2013, 02:27 PM
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Meh. Sbisa was always underwhelming to me. Looking back at that draft he's probably at the bottom of my list for defenders taken in the first round. He's ahead of Cuma and Tuebert but that's about it. I know everyone is ready to tar and feather Luke Schenn, but I'd rather have Schenn than Sbisa.

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11-21-2013, 02:28 PM
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Meh.
That was my reaction.

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Old
11-21-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Meh. Sbisa was always underwhelming to me. Looking back at that draft he's probably at the bottom of my list for defenders taken in the first round. He's ahead of Cuma and Tuebert but that's about it. I know everyone is ready to tar and feather Luke Schenn, but I'd rather have Schenn than Sbisa.
You were "underwhelmed" by an 18 year old at the time he played for the Flyers as a rookie D man..go figure?

Kid is only 23..has a lot of offensive upside as a D man. This year he's been dealing with an ankle sprain ..

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11-21-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
You were "underwhelmed" by an 18 year old at the time he played for the Flyers as a rookie D man..go figure?

Kid is only 23..has a lot of offensive upside as a D man. This year he's been dealing with an ankle sprain ..
I'd assume he'd still be dealing with that sprain over here

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:02 PM
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I'd assume he'd still be dealing with that sprain over here
Sure but not like he has some terminal disease.....

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11-21-2013, 03:20 PM
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Just another #3 -#6 guy with little upside.
I'd take him back only if they could get him for cheap...

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11-21-2013, 03:20 PM
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He would be 4th on my list of Anaheim D to go after!

Vatanen got sent down to the AHL recently and has been ****ed about by them quite a bit in the last few years. I would not mind going after him... heck, they have Sbisa, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen and Theodore.

Something has to give with those guys at some point. (in the next two years most likely.) Lindholm and Fowler are the two who will definitely stay I imagine.

Vatanen or Sbisa could be had if the timing and price was right.

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
He would be 4th on my list of Anaheim D to go after!

Vatanen got sent down to the AHL recently and has been ****ed about by them quite a bit in the last few years. I would not mind going after him... heck, they have Sbisa, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen and Theodore.

Something has to give with those guys at some point. (in the next two years most likely.) Lindholm and Fowler are the two who will definitely stay I imagine.

Vatanen or Sbisa could be had if the timing and price was right.
That's what I thought..they have a bit of a logjam. Didn't know about Vatanen's treatment though...

I think there is an opportunity there..wouldn't hurt to gauge interest as I noted.

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11-21-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
You were "underwhelmed" by an 18 year old at the time he played for the Flyers as a rookie D man..go figure?

Kid is only 23..has a lot of offensive upside as a D man. This year he's been dealing with an ankle sprain ..
Yup. I was impressed that he was 18 and playing in the NHL, but that's about as far as it goes. A guy playing in the NHL at 18 is impressive, but that doesn't mean I always have to be impressed by him. He's a fine defender, but its not like anyone has him pegged as #1 defender (or even a #2 guy for that matter).

EDIT: Let's also not pretend that he was anything special in that half season he played in Philly. I don't think anyone would have batted an eye if they sent him back to junior to start that year (IIRC he was sent back to juniors halfway through the year, wasn't he?).

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yup. I was impressed that he was 18 and playing in the NHL, but that's about as far as it goes. A guy playing in the NHL at 18 is impressive, but that doesn't mean I always have to be impressed by him. He's a find defender, but its not like anyone has him pegged as #1 defender (or even a #2 guy for that matter).
Of course he's not a number 2 or number 1. He is a good PMD which we still could use. Also I disagree he has no further upside.....he's been progressing normally until this latest setback with his ankle. He's become a regular for them and even had to develop during the lean years.

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11-21-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Sure but not like he has some terminal disease.....
I don't know, he hasn't shown much since he's been drafted. Granted he's still young, I guess it would depend on the price. And knowing Anaheim, they don't really give away their players.

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:36 PM
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I don't know, he hasn't shown much since he's been drafted. Granted he's still young, I guess it would depend on the price. And knowing Anaheim, they don't really give away their players.
He's shown himself to be a regular and he had a pretty solid season in 2011-12 in particular.

That's is something IMO......not like he's been going up and down between the AHL and NHL or being benched ..like Gus...

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11-21-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
That's what I thought..they have a bit of a logjam. Didn't know about Vatanen's treatment though...

I think there is an opportunity there..wouldn't hurt to gauge interest as I noted.
Tbf Vatanens treatment is really a result of the jam... he played well in limited games last year and got sent down as well, was awesome in the AHL, started this year well, a few bumps, then straight back down.

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:45 PM
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sbisa > luke schenn

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Old
11-21-2013, 04:20 PM
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sbisa > luke schenn
I duno about that... the guy has less PPG then Schenn through over 250 games, gets more PP time than Schenn, and has been sheltered in terms of minutes played each year in Anaheim.

He is also liability defensively quite frankly, (maybe harsh, but he has been constantly one of Anaheims worst two defenders from a defensive standpoint since he went there) and is soooo passive Flyers fans would hate him within 10 games ('****ing soft-ass euro'... etc (not saying it is right but that is what would happen, he is not soft persee, he hits, has grit, but just, 'passive'... when he was a rookie that was accepted, it would not be now.)

He also takes a lot of stupid penalties. (More PIM per game than Schenn even though he fights almost half as often... (9 in 244 (1 every 27) vs 24 in 374 (1 every 15))

Schenn has shown he is a #3-4 in this league in 3 of his 5 and a half years, and a #5 in the other years.

Sbisa has had one 25 point year (factored) and not had more than 20 again (in three years), the other two he has looked like a bottom pairing D man and not created offence even with some PP time. 3 of his 8 points last year were on the PP.

Schenn 23, 22, 19, 17 and 16 points (factored) with almost no PP time.

There is also less than 3 months between them in age.

I would take Schenn every time really. He is better at most aspects of hockey.


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Old
11-21-2013, 04:24 PM
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I duno about that... the guy has less PPG then Schenn through over 250 games, gets more PP time than Schenn, and has been sheltered in terms of minutes played each year in Anaheim.

He is also liability defensively quite frankly, (maybe harsh, but he has been constantly one of Anaheims worst two defenders from a defensive standpoint since he went there) and is soooo passive Flyers fans would hate him within 10 games ('****ing soft-ass euro'... etc (not saying it is right but that is what would happen... when he was a rookie that was accepted, it would not be now.)

He also takes a lot of stupid penalties. (More PIM per game than Schenn even though he fights almost half as often... (9 in 244 (1 every 27) vs 24 in 374 (1 every 15))

Schenn has shown he is a #3-4 in this league in 3 of his 5 and a half years, and a #5 in the other years.

Sbisa has had one 25 point year (factored) and not had more than 20 again (in three years), the other two he has looked like a bottom pairing D man and not created offence even with some PP time. 3 of his 8 points last year were on the PP.

Schenn 23, 22, 19, 17 and 16 points (factored) with almost no PP time.

There is also less than 3 months between them in age.

I would take Schenn every time really. He is better at most aspects of hockey.
"There are three kinds of lies....Lies, damned lies, and statistics.....

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11-21-2013, 04:33 PM
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I take Luke Schenn over Sbisa for the aforementioned reasons. Nothing against you FP, but it is strange how people are willing to give Sbisa more time than Schenn despite all of what Appleyard laid out above. Seems almost like a grass-is-greener type deal.

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11-21-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
"There are three kinds of lies....Lies, damned lies, and statistics.....
Yeh... it is true, stats can lie if used out of context.

But ask any Anaheim fan about him... he is awful defensively, and his IQ limits him using his physical capabilities offensively, like he has trouble getting passes out of the zone as he throws them to stupid places all the time then gets penalised for trying to make up for his own suckiness. He is pretty much all potential, and is so inconsistent even when limited and playing vs 3rd and 4th liners.

And he has got worse two years in a row... and has been pretty much their #6 each year outside of 11-12. He makes his D partners worse as well... and he is pretty much benched when Anaheim are in a close game in the third.

To use an oft used phrase... all the tools, (apart from defensive ability!) no toolbox. At best I imagine he rounds into a puck moving 3-4 who gets 35-40 but below average defensively. Who knows ofc with D men... but I doubt he is more than that.

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Old
11-21-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I take Luke Schenn over Sbisa for the aforementioned reasons. Nothing against you FP, but it is strange how people are willing to give Sbisa more time than Schenn despite all of what Appleyard laid out above. Seems almost like a grass-is-greener type deal.
Schenn is skating with two left feet....

I wouldn't mind adding Sbisa to the roster at the right price. Wouldn't necessarily be an either or situation (Schenn vs Sbisa). I still think Sbisa has some decent upside under the right conditions but yeah Schenn has proven himself more..albeit inconsistently.

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11-21-2013, 04:41 PM
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Yeh... it is true, stats can lie if used out of context.

But ask any Anaheim fan about him... he is awful defensively, and his IQ limits him using his physical capabilities offensively, like he has trouble getting passes out of the zone as he throws them to stupid places all the time then gets penalised for trying to make up for his own suckiness. He is pretty much all potential, and is so inconsistent even when limited and playing vs 3rd and 4th liners.

And he has got worse two years in a row... and has been pretty much their #6 each year outside of 11-12. He makes his D partners worse as well... and he is pretty much benched when Anaheim are in a close game in the third.

To use an oft used phrase... all the tools, (apart from defensive ability!) no toolbox. At best I imagine he rounds into a puck moving 3-4 who gets 35-40 but below average defensively. Who knows ofc with D men... but I doubt he is more than that.
Honestly I was assessing him anectodaly. Your assessment sounds like more of an indictment than I imagined. As far as the fans, that one is a double edged sword. Hard to take at face value although I'm sure some fan's assessments are spot on just like with some of our fans. The crap Coburn gets from some of our fans is an example of a bad assessment IMO


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