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Coots: Sean Couturier

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11-20-2013, 12:07 PM
  #426
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The reaction of the team was odd. When Giroux got his first the entire team were out celebrating. When Couturier gets his, even his line mates don't run up to him. Giroux barely looked bothered. Almost certainly nothing, but is Couturier popular?
Giroux is the captiain of the team, the face of the franchise, and a 6 year veteran who is considered by many as a top 5 player in the NHL. When Giroux goes 20 games without a goal it's a shock and it's talked about by the national media and it's under a microscope by the local media tabloid writers.
Couturier is a 20 year old, defensive third liner with less than 20 career goals. When Couts doesn't score for 20 games it's a young player taking his lumps.

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11-21-2013, 01:18 PM
  #427
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At this point I'm kind of down on Couturier...not really down exactly, but I feel like he'll never develop offensively enough to be more than a straight checking center. Which has value, but if his trade market is still based on thoughts of him becoming a good #2 2-way center then I think they should deal him.

All that said, how much if at all does putting defensive responsibilities on him hinder his development as an offensive player? I'm wondering if asking him to defend the opponent's top line C, pulling him off and on the ice to match him up, basically asking him to put defense first...is it unfair to be critical of him for not progressing the way we all hope?

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11-21-2013, 01:24 PM
  #428
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At this point I'm kind of down on Couturier...not really down exactly, but I feel like he'll never develop offensively enough to be more than a straight checking center. Which has value, but if his trade market is still based on thoughts of him becoming a good #2 2-way center then I think they should deal him.

All that said, how much if at all does putting defensive responsibilities on him hinder his development as an offensive player? I'm wondering if asking him to defend the opponent's top line C, pulling him off and on the ice to match him up, basically asking him to put defense first...is it unfair to be critical of him for not progressing the way we all hope?
Basically the crux is that if he plays as he has been used in the last two years it is nigh on impossible for him to break 40 points... as guys who plays those kind of minutes do not get over 40 points.

Dupuis a few years back in the late 30's as a winger in a similar role, and Chris Kelly hit exactly 40 as a similar kind of centre, they are the only guys since the lockout who have played hard 3rd line minutes and been close to over 40. Look at how much Poni's numbers dropped last year as he was used in that role! It stifles offence.

I did a little comparison (maybe earlier in this thread actually) looking at guys with those kind of minutes in recent history, the offensive numbers aint pretty!

Though if Couts is given 45% zone starts, more PP time and slightly easier matchups (a la Staal when in Pitt, Fisher as well recently) I can imagine 50 being within reach. I imagine he gets the 2C role at some point though (Staal in Pitt).

You are seeing with Jordan Staal so far this year what having harder minutes does to offence... he is getting the hardest since his 2nd year... and look what is happening to his offence even with PP time, even though he excels defensively. Though playing on a team that does not score much anyway does not help.

Antoine Vermette is another good example... 50-65 point player with easier minutes, 30-40 point player when playing more of a shutdown role.


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11-21-2013, 01:27 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
At this point I'm kind of down on Couturier...not really down exactly, but I feel like he'll never develop offensively enough to be more than a straight checking center. Which has value, but if his trade market is still based on thoughts of him becoming a good #2 2-way center then I think they should deal him.

All that said, how much if at all does putting defensive responsibilities on him hinder his development as an offensive player? I'm wondering if asking him to defend the opponent's top line C, pulling him off and on the ice to match him up, basically asking him to put defense first...is it unfair to be critical of him for not progressing the way we all hope?
He's 20.

The vast majority of NHL players weren't in the league at age 20.

He has plenty of time.

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11-21-2013, 02:15 PM
  #430
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I've seen way too positive ink and discussion about Coots. Yes, he's not going to be a 60 pt scorer this year. He may not even be a .5 ppg player in his career. But right now he's 20, gets some of the toughest assignments night in and night out and pretty much does a ridiculous job at it.

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11-21-2013, 04:06 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He's 20.

The vast majority of NHL players weren't in the league at age 20.

He has plenty of time.
Yea not only that but his tall and is filling out. He recruited a lot of mass last offseason and will continue to do so. Guys that like that a little longer to hit potential.

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11-21-2013, 04:08 PM
  #432
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Yea not only that but his tall and is filling out. He recruited a lot of mass last offseason and will continue to do so. Guys that like that a little longer to hit potential.
As long as he stays away from the Luke Schenn offseason regimen...

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11-21-2013, 04:23 PM
  #433
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Another positive to look at with Couts is his shooting percentage. It was WAY down last year, I imagine it will bounce back up at some point or another...

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11-21-2013, 04:49 PM
  #434
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Couturier's offensive game is down but that is to be expected when you go against the top competition in the game and shut them down. Him shutting down the top competition far outweighs playing against lesser competition and getting more points. Which is why Vinny is such a huge pick up this season, he will be the player looked at to get a lot of points because he won't be going against the top lines or the top defensive lines. It just makes me shake my head when I see people complaining about a young player that shuts down the top offensive guys in the league because he doesn't score many points while doing it.

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11-21-2013, 06:36 PM
  #435
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Couturier can't accelerate; until he can he won't produce offense

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11-21-2013, 07:05 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by ugiswrong View Post
Couturier can't accelerate; until he can he won't produce offense
Jagr does ok without accelerating. Hell he's likely to just hitch a ride with his stick half the time. He can succeed he just needs to learn how to counterbalance lackluster acceleration/speed with being hard to move off the puck and good angles.

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11-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #437
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Jagr does ok without accelerating. Hell he's likely to just hitch a ride with his stick half the time. He can succeed he just needs to learn how to counterbalance lackluster acceleration/speed with being hard to move off the puck and good angles.
When Heatley was good his acceleration was crap as well... yet he got in all kinds of scoring positions regularly.

If you are clever enough you don't have to have electric pace... though power skating lessons each summer are a must as being a good skater makes everything else so easy.

He has a strong stride once he is going as well, so there is something to work with.

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11-21-2013, 07:46 PM
  #438
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Couturier can't accelerate; until he can he won't produce offense
He just produced two assists in two minutes.

How much acceleration did Ron Francis have?

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11-21-2013, 08:27 PM
  #439
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Luc Robitaille was not a great skater ...he still knew how to pick his spots.

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11-21-2013, 08:40 PM
  #440
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Lack of acceleration won't be an issue if he counterbalances with great strength. If he continues to add strength which his frame can hold he could be a handful on the puck and along the boards.

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11-21-2013, 08:45 PM
  #441
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Good to see his line producing tonight. They deserve the goals/points, they've been putting in the work night in and night out.

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11-21-2013, 08:48 PM
  #442
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Cooter with 2 points!

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11-21-2013, 08:49 PM
  #443
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Sean Couturier, Accelerating Back.

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11-21-2013, 09:17 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by ugiswrong View Post
Couturier can't accelerate; until he can he won't produce offense
Jason Allison was much slower than Couturier and was one of the better playmakers to play in the last 20 years.

Couturier is still developing his offensive style in the NHL. He's not going to put up points like he did in the QMJHL, but he's going to be a beast along the boards and turn into a guy who can play a key role in cycling the puck down low for a minute at a time, which will produce offense and exhaust opposing players. The guy will eventually start scoring on the chances he's getting and he's getting a ton of good ones. There's really no reason to be worried about him.

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11-21-2013, 09:22 PM
  #445
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You can see the offensive confidence in him growing.

Also, have you guys noticed that we have looked much faster? Simmonds won a foot race. Couts has, Kimmo has. Even Hartnell. Just wondering if it's just he or are others seeing it.

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11-21-2013, 09:27 PM
  #446
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I'm seeing it too.

Simmonds looked like he could barely stay on his feet in early October.

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11-21-2013, 09:31 PM
  #447
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Berube has preached playing at a fast pace, so it's not surprising. He seems to be working them in practice to get their legs going too.

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11-21-2013, 09:58 PM
  #448
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Please please please tell me we are not comparing couts to Ron ****ing Francis and Jaromir Jagr now.

Tow of the best offensive players in the history of the sport ...and then a guy with 30 career points.

Holy crap..everyone arguing on both sides of this kid need to chill out

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11-21-2013, 10:07 PM
  #449
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Lofty comparisons aside for a second, Couturier plays along the walls like a powerforward and he has some incredible hands.

He's not going to accelerate and beat people on the outside, but he's got a solid winger in Read for that.

Now I'm going to bring out a comparison...when he's firing like tonight...he looks quite a bit like another player on this team...Vinny Lecavalier.

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11-21-2013, 10:08 PM
  #450
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Please please please tell me we are not comparing couts to Ron ****ing Francis and Jaromir Jagr now.

Tow of the best offensive players in the history of the sport ...and then a guy with 30 career points.

Holy crap..everyone arguing on both sides of this kid need to chill out
I think you need to take your own advice. People were just pointing out elite players that didn't have the acceleration. No one said Couts is gonna be Jagr or Francis, well Jagr compared Couts to Francis.

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