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Talk Slowly and Use Small Words, its the Michael Del Zotto Thread

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Old
11-21-2013, 10:45 AM
  #326
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Instead of being upset, DZ should tear it up next time he plays. Thats one way to shut the coach up without speaking. Go out there and create havoc

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11-21-2013, 11:06 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Instead of being upset, DZ should tear it up next time he plays. Thats one way to shut the coach up without speaking. Go out there and create havoc
Kreider and Zucc have seemingly done that.

Question is if MDZ has the mental fortitude to do that.

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11-21-2013, 02:22 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
Kreider and Zucc have seemingly done that.

Question is if MDZ has the mental fortitude to do that.


I guess we will see what happens now. DZ will have his chance. It would be nice to see DZ get a multi point game tonight. I like the kid

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11-21-2013, 03:18 PM
  #329
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del zottos problems are obvious.

first, hes mentally fragile. his play has been so-so and his psyche seems damaged. bad combo.

second, his skills arent good enough to allow him to escape from the situations he creates for himself. he panics with the puck frequently and he doesnt have the recover speed to hide his mistakes like ryan mcdonagh, stralman and moore can. hes just too slow.

third, hes an " offensive specialist" type dman and in this league, that means you have to shoot it or skate it really well. he does neither. hes really in a bad spot because defensively he isnt strong and offensively he um... isnt particularly strong. bad combo again.

his real problem is there are 5 dmen on this team that play that position either better than or equally as well as he does. add his sloth like skating and ineffective-nonproductive play ( 4 points in 16 games and a -4 )and you end up with a coach asking for more and a player not able to produce more.

bad combo.

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11-21-2013, 03:38 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
del zottos problems are obvious.

first, hes mentally fragile. his play has been so-so and his psyche seems damaged. bad combo.

second, his skills arent good enough to allow him to escape from the situations he creates for himself. he panics with the puck frequently and he doesnt have the recover speed to hide his mistakes like ryan mcdonagh, stralman and moore can. hes just too slow.

third, hes an " offensive specialist" type dman and in this league, that means you have to shoot it or skate it really well. he does neither. hes really in a bad spot because defensively he isnt strong and offensively he um... isnt particularly strong. bad combo again.

his real problem is there are 5 dmen on this team that play that position either better than or equally as well as he does. add his sloth like skating and ineffective-nonproductive play ( 4 points in 16 games and a -4 )and you end up with a coach asking for more and a player not able to produce more.

bad combo.
i wonder how things would have turned out if he played one more year in junior instead of coming straight to the NHL, maybe he would have been producing at a decent rate by now

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11-21-2013, 04:00 PM
  #331
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i wonder how things would have turned out if he played one more year in junior instead of coming straight to the NHL, maybe he would have been producing at a decent rate by now
if you remember back to his draft year, there were concerns about his defensive play and decision making. his skating was never mentioned as a negative though. he was drafted as an offensive dman who played with an "edge" lol , who made plays and could qb the pp.

he went 20th and was considered to have "fallen" into our laps.

he was considered to be one of the top "offensive" dmen in that draft. his numbers were goals/assist pretty good in oshawa and london his last year of juniors. 13/50/62 total.

and now we have mike del zaster who has gotten slower. less physical. less decisive. less creative. less offensive and much less productive.

not sure about him staying in juniors one more year. by all accounts, he was ready. his rookie years numbers for us were strong and he made the all rookie team that season.

he just hasnt taken that step. some guys never do.

he needs a change of scenery to try to jump start his career again.

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11-21-2013, 04:03 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if you remember back to his draft year, there were concerns about his defensive play and decision making. his skating was never mentioned as a negative though. he was drafted as an offensive dman who played with an "edge" lol , who made plays and could qb the pp.

he went 20th and was considered to have "fallen" into our laps.

he was considered to be one of the top "offensive" dmen in that draft. his numbers were goals/assist pretty good in oshawa and london his last year of juniors. 13/50/62 total.

and now we have mike del zaster who has gotten slower. less physical. less decisive. less creative. less offensive and much less productive.

not sure about him staying in juniors one more year. by all accounts, he was ready. his rookie years numbers for us were strong and he made the all rookie team that season.

he just hasnt taken that step. some guys never do.

he needs a change of scenery to try to jump start his career again.
You state that as if it's fact and not opinion. For all we know he could take that next step tonight lol.

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11-21-2013, 04:05 PM
  #333
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You state that as if it's fact and not opinion. For all we know he could take that next step tonight lol.
or he could get hurt tonight and knowing the Rangers luck and be out 6 months..

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11-21-2013, 04:24 PM
  #334
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You state that as if it's fact and not opinion. For all we know he could take that next step tonight lol.
he could play better tonight.

can he sustain it ?

thats the 64,000 question

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11-21-2013, 06:56 PM
  #335
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he could play better tonight.

can he sustain it ?

thats the 64,000 question
Yup, that's exactly the question that DZ needs to step up and answer.

He wants that paycheck then he better earn it.

I hope that AV, who didn't prep for his job by not watching his guys play, doesn't drive him out of town.

If the Rangers don't get the best player in the deal, and team is in a marginal position to contend, then the collapse of this current core may be imminent given how few players are signed for next year.

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11-21-2013, 06:58 PM
  #336
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Del Zotto's five years so far:

09-10
80gp 9g 28a 37pts
pwp 4g 18a 22pts.
10-11
47gp 2g 9a 11pts
pwp 2g 5a 7pts
11-12
77gp 10g 31a 41pts
pwp 1g 13a 14pts
12-13
46gp 3g 18a 21pts
pwp 0g 8a 8pts
13-14
16gp 1g 3a 4pts
pwp 0g 1a 1pt

In his first 80 games he produced 22 pwp points in his next 176 he produces 30 pwp points--do the math--that sucks and it pretty much tells you he's not been an effective pwp producer since his first season. In at least his last 136 regular season NHL games he's scored all of 1 goal on the power play--and for a defenseman making $2.5 mil per and one that is expected to run your pwp that's somewhere on a level lower than abysmal. He's not super good defensively. He's not terrible defensively--usually anyway--he can rise to the level of competency in his own end. His bread and butter--what he's supposed to make the $ for is more his offensive contribution. Last year I posted an opinion that he had plateaued--this year my opinion is he's regressed though I think that is in part due to the new coaching staff that persists in putting him on the right side when he's so much more competent (if not decent) on the left. I'm not happy with the idea of paying a Del Zotto to be a stay at home defenseman. I'm okay with paying a Del Zotto to be a legitimate threat of a pwp qb who plays adequate defensively. Forget about the 40 points a year business--that was okay production for him in his first two or three seasons. As a good young player progresses he tends to produce more offense and with it comes more $. Del Zotto needs to be in the 50-55 point range at this stage of his career. Del Zotto's not doing it.

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11-21-2013, 08:34 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Del Zotto's five years so far:

09-10
80gp 9g 28a 37pts
pwp 4g 18a 22pts.
10-11
47gp 2g 9a 11pts
pwp 2g 5a 7pts
11-12
77gp 10g 31a 41pts
pwp 1g 13a 14pts
12-13
46gp 3g 18a 21pts
pwp 0g 8a 8pts
13-14
16gp 1g 3a 4pts
pwp 0g 1a 1pt

In his first 80 games he produced 22 pwp points in his next 176 he produces 30 pwp points--do the math--that sucks and it pretty much tells you he's not been an effective pwp producer since his first season. In at least his last 136 regular season NHL games he's scored all of 1 goal on the power play--and for a defenseman making $2.5 mil per and one that is expected to run your pwp that's somewhere on a level lower than abysmal. He's not super good defensively. He's not terrible defensively--usually anyway--he can rise to the level of competency in his own end. His bread and butter--what he's supposed to make the $ for is more his offensive contribution. Last year I posted an opinion that he had plateaued--this year my opinion is he's regressed though I think that is in part due to the new coaching staff that persists in putting him on the right side when he's so much more competent (if not decent) on the left. I'm not happy with the idea of paying a Del Zotto to be a stay at home defenseman. I'm okay with paying a Del Zotto to be a legitimate threat of a pwp qb who plays adequate defensively. Forget about the 40 points a year business--that was okay production for him in his first two or three seasons. As a good young player progresses he tends to produce more offense and with it comes more $. Del Zotto needs to be in the 50-55 point range at this stage of his career. Del Zotto's not doing it.

Last year, you thought a 22 year old defenseman had plateaued. This year, you claim that the benchmark for success for that player is 50-55 points.

That kind of production would put him in this range over the last 5 full seasons:

2011-12: Top 5 (50 points= 5th, 55=2nd)
2010-11: Top 7 (50 points=tied for 7th, 55=4th)
2009-10: Top 6 (50 points=tied for 6th, 55= tied for 5th)
2008-09: Top 12 (50 points=tied for 12th, 55=8th)
2007-08: Top 11 (50 points=11th, 55=tied for 8th)

Ready for the fun part? Over the last five full seasons, here are the age numbers for D who have scored 50+ points in a season:

2007/08: Average age 30.27 (Phaneuf and Green were both 23yo)

2008/09: Average age of 30 (Shea Weber was 23)

2009/10: Average age of 28.14 (Doughty was 19)

2010/11: Average age of 28.89 (Letang was 23)

2011/12: Average age of 26.8 (Pietrangelo and Karlsson were 21)

Reader's Digest version: Over the last 5 full seasons, the average age of D who put up 50+ points is 28.82. Out of the guys to put up those numbers, only 7 have done it by the age of 23 (Phaneuf, Weber, Green, and Letang--who put up an even 50 feeding the two best players in the game--did it in their 23 yo year) or before (Pietrangelo and Karlsson at 21, and Doughty at 19).

Del Zotto has about 6 years before he hits the average age that D put up 50+ points. The notion that a 23 year old defenseman has "plateaued" is absurd. The fact that Del Zotto hasn't accomplished at the same level as names like the 7 above is not a reason to trade him for scraps (and most of the potential returns I've seen suggested here and on the trade board would qualify as scraps).

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11-21-2013, 11:02 PM
  #338
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11-21-2013, 11:26 PM
  #339
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Not surprised to see Del Zotto with a gaffe after being a healthy scratch. Lack of motivation/intensity is not the issue, his problems are mostly mental. Now he is trying to force things offensively instead of making smart decisions.

He is as good as gone at this point. He needs a fresh start and I'm not really sure that this coaching staff knows how to push the right buttons with him.

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11-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #340
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How did DZ look? Was at work.

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11-21-2013, 11:54 PM
  #341
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How did DZ look? Was at work.
He was OK. Made a pretty bad decision on the 3-2 goal, but other than that, I didn't notice any mistakes. Made a couple of nice passes and made a nice pinch on Moore's goal.

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11-21-2013, 11:56 PM
  #342
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He was OK. Made a pretty bad decision on the 3-2 goal, but other than that, I didn't notice any mistakes. Made a couple of nice passes and made a nice pinch on Moore's goal.
really pulling for the guy to get his **** together. a goal or 2 and his swagger will be back hopefully. and hopefully still in ny

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11-22-2013, 09:13 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Last year, you thought a 22 year old defenseman had plateaued. This year, you claim that the benchmark for success for that player is 50-55 points.

That kind of production would put him in this range over the last 5 full seasons:

2011-12: Top 5 (50 points= 5th, 55=2nd)
2010-11: Top 7 (50 points=tied for 7th, 55=4th)
2009-10: Top 6 (50 points=tied for 6th, 55= tied for 5th)
2008-09: Top 12 (50 points=tied for 12th, 55=8th)
2007-08: Top 11 (50 points=11th, 55=tied for 8th)

Ready for the fun part? Over the last five full seasons, here are the age numbers for D who have scored 50+ points in a season:

2007/08: Average age 30.27 (Phaneuf and Green were both 23yo)

2008/09: Average age of 30 (Shea Weber was 23)

2009/10: Average age of 28.14 (Doughty was 19)

2010/11: Average age of 28.89 (Letang was 23)

2011/12: Average age of 26.8 (Pietrangelo and Karlsson were 21)

Reader's Digest version: Over the last 5 full seasons, the average age of D who put up 50+ points is 28.82. Out of the guys to put up those numbers, only 7 have done it by the age of 23 (Phaneuf, Weber, Green, and Letang--who put up an even 50 feeding the two best players in the game--did it in their 23 yo year) or before (Pietrangelo and Karlsson at 21, and Doughty at 19).

Del Zotto has about 6 years before he hits the average age that D put up 50+ points. The notion that a 23 year old defenseman has "plateaued" is absurd. The fact that Del Zotto hasn't accomplished at the same level as names like the 7 above is not a reason to trade him for scraps (and most of the potential returns I've seen suggested here and on the trade board would qualify as scraps).
Del Zotto has at least two contracts coming in those 6 years--maybe even an UFA one--starting from a base salary of $2.55 mil per. How do you figure that's going to go? Do we pay him big bucks before he hits his prime or after? If he gets back to the 35-40 point range per in 6 years he'll be making a lot more than he is now but we won't have a better player.

The idea that young players can't plateau is what I find absurd. It happens all the time. A case in point was a recent Ranger Wojtek Wolski. One might even wonder about current players like Brassard or Pouliot. Can't argue that any of these guys aren't talented. Can argue that they just don't have it in them to do more.

Anyway there's been no real indication so far that Del Zotto is going to provide a lot of offense for us this year. He seems to be at loggerheads with the coaching staff and playing the right side is not helping. Good season or not if he is not moved we are looking at a new contract for him next year. Do we give what will be a 24 year old 3rd pairing d-man next year a 2 year $3.5 mil per year contract for say a 25 point season this year?--if he even gets to that. A guy who is supposed to be our pwp qb who has lost that job to another d-man who prior to this season hardly ever got pwp time.

IMO the Rangers cannot afford to wait 6 years to find a legit pwp threat point man. He hits 37 points as a 19 year old and he struggles to produce even close to that now as a 23 year old. He hasn't plateaued? What would you call it?

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11-22-2013, 09:46 AM
  #344
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He just looks better playing on the left side.

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11-22-2013, 10:02 AM
  #345
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He was OK. Made a pretty bad decision on the 3-2 goal, but other than that, I didn't notice any mistakes. Made a couple of nice passes and made a nice pinch on Moore's goal.
I couldve lived with that mistake any other time of the game.

But it was a terrible pinch while protecting a 3-1 lead in the 3rd. I know the staff wants more offense from him, but dear Lord, pick your spots better.

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11-22-2013, 10:05 AM
  #346
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I couldve lived with that mistake any other time of the game.

But it was a terrible pinch while protecting a 3-1 lead in the 3rd. I know the staff wants more offense from him, but dear Lord, pick your spots better.
Yeah, I don't disagree. That's what makes it a particularly bad decision, IMO. He's trying to be too aggressive.

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11-22-2013, 11:16 AM
  #347
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I don't think it was such a black and white play. He had support but the support joined him after he had already engaged the player against the wall. More of a mis-communication imo than a bone head play.

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11-22-2013, 12:04 PM
  #348
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I don't think it was such a black and white play. He had support but the support joined him after he had already engaged the player against the wall. More of a mis-communication imo than a bone head play.
Although I agree it was a miss communication with the support that also messed up (Brassard i think) he really should have never pinched there in the first place. I do think it was pretty black and white. He should have fell back and support could have pressured if they got there in time.

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11-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #349
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Although I agree it was a miss communication with the support that also messed up (Brassard i think) he really should have never pinched there in the first place. I do think it was pretty black and white. He should have fell back and support could have pressured if they got there in time.
Yes, it was Brassard. I'd like to take a look at the replay again...from my recollection Brassard was in a good support position (near the blue line in the center of the ice) which allowed DZ to make the pinch to try and keep the puck in the zone. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it seemed to me Brassard could have backed up once DZ pinched, instead of sliding over to join him at the wall.

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11-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I couldve lived with that mistake any other time of the game.

But it was a terrible pinch while protecting a 3-1 lead in the 3rd. I know the staff wants more offense from him, but dear Lord, pick your spots better.
It was a bad mistake, but in fairness, he made the exact same play a few minutes earlier, and it led directly to a goal (I think it was on Moore's goal). Doesn't excuse the poor decision to be overly aggressive when 2 goals up, but you can't mention one without the other.

And just to bring something up from earlier in the thread -- I do remember questions about his skating in his draft year.

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