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Olli Jokinen ??

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Old
12-28-2006, 09:16 AM
  #51
SOLR
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Florida would be stupid to trade olli.

Yes, they are having a bad year but I dont think they are that far off from becoming a playoff team. There's no point in dismantling the core at this point. They should rather just continue to build around it. And there's nobody more important in that core than jokinen at this point.
I kinda disagree on that. For this team to become successful, Nathan Horton is the man too look at. This will become Nathan's team since all tries with Oly failed.(To over-simplify things...) Thats why I think Oly's value might not be that high as it seems, he basically failed to make this team a winning team. Its not that hes the only man to blame for that, since management was very bad for so long, it's more that hes one of those guys that are playing below their potential, much like Jagr was in Washington.

From the Panthers standpoint its not a bad idea to trade Jokinen to fill in the depth problems they have in their lineup. That being said I'm not quite ready to give more than 2 roster players + draft pick to acquire him.

Ryder-Pleckanec-1st choice+maybe secondary prospect(D'agostini-Obyrne-Milroy-Mikus- etc)

They get the scoring winger for either Norton or Weiss and they get the 3rd center needed to shutdown. 1st Choice = Goaltender at their choice. (Likely 25th overall) Dont forget as well that they are preparing a czech line in Florida and pleckanec might be a future 2nd line centre when Frolik and Olez are more mature.

For the same reasons I wouldnt count on the habs to trade any of the belarus crew, simply by fear of braking the chemistry between them.

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12-28-2006, 09:53 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I kinda disagree on that. For this team to become successful, Nathan Horton is the man too look at. This will become Nathan's team since all tries with Oly failed.(To over-simplify things...) Thats why I think Oly's value might not be that high as it seems, he basically failed to make this team a winning team. Its not that hes the only man to blame for that, since management was very bad for so long, it's more that hes one of those guys that are playing below their potential, much like Jagr was in Washington.

From the Panthers standpoint its not a bad idea to trade Jokinen to fill in the depth problems they have in their lineup. That being said I'm not quite ready to give more than 2 roster players + draft pick to acquire him.

Ryder-Pleckanec-1st choice+maybe secondary prospect(D'agostini-Obyrne-Milroy-Mikus- etc)

They get the scoring winger for either Norton or Weiss and they get the 3rd center needed to shutdown. 1st Choice = Goaltender at their choice. (Likely 25th overall) Dont forget as well that they are preparing a czech line in Florida and pleckanec might be a future 2nd line centre when Frolik and Olez are more mature.

For the same reasons I wouldnt count on the habs to trade any of the belarus crew, simply by fear of braking the chemistry between them.
I'l ask Florida fans how they fell of your proposal, i personnaly like it, but if they hate it i blame you SOLR

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Old
12-28-2006, 01:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I kinda disagree on that. For this team to become successful, Nathan Horton is the man too look at. This will become Nathan's team since all tries with Oly failed.(To over-simplify things...) Thats why I think Oly's value might not be that high as it seems, he basically failed to make this team a winning team. Its not that hes the only man to blame for that, since management was very bad for so long, it's more that hes one of those guys that are playing below their potential, much like Jagr was in Washington.

From the Panthers standpoint its not a bad idea to trade Jokinen to fill in the depth problems they have in their lineup. That being said I'm not quite ready to give more than 2 roster players + draft pick to acquire him.

Ryder-Pleckanec-1st choice+maybe secondary prospect(D'agostini-Obyrne-Milroy-Mikus- etc)

They get the scoring winger for either Norton or Weiss and they get the 3rd center needed to shutdown. 1st Choice = Goaltender at their choice. (Likely 25th overall) Dont forget as well that they are preparing a czech line in Florida and pleckanec might be a future 2nd line centre when Frolik and Olez are more mature.

For the same reasons I wouldnt count on the habs to trade any of the belarus crew, simply by fear of braking the chemistry between them.
That's not my impression of Jokinen at all. He seems like a gamer who consistently delivers. Florida's losing has nothing to do with Jokinen. It would be like trading Koivu in the dark Houle days because he failed to make the Habs a winning team.

On the other hand, I could still see Florida trading him for a massive package of youth and prospects. But it wouldn't be because Jokinen failed to live up to expectations. If anything, Florida would trade him because he has been so good on a bad team, and he's got a great contract for the next 3 years. If they're going to try rebuilding yet again, they might as well convert their best asset into long-term value -- unlike what they did with Luongo.

I think his trade value right now is higher than Lecavalier or Richards or Sundin or Thornton (at least going by last year's trade). His value is probably comparable to Marleau -- a franchise center in his prime with a really good contract. The only thing that might hurt his value is that he hasn't had a chance to shine in the playoffs. But that wouldn't bother me much after looking at his international performances and overall play on a bad team, especially also as he wouldn't be the only go-to guy on the Habs with Koivu, Kovalev, Souray and so on.

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12-28-2006, 01:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Danis or Price could be available ion a package for Jokinen.
Price is an untouchable at this point.

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12-28-2006, 01:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1 View Post
Price is an untouchable at this point.
I'd trade Price for Jokinen in a heartbeat.

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12-28-2006, 02:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Price is an untouchable at this point.
then

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
I'd trade Price for Jokinen in a heartbeat.

Me, too. Ok, so I guess we can touch Price a little, but NO UNNECESSARY ROUGHNESS!

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12-28-2006, 02:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
That's not my impression of Jokinen at all. He seems like a gamer who consistently delivers. Florida's losing has nothing to do with Jokinen. It would be like trading Koivu in the dark Houle days because he failed to make the Habs a winning team.
You cant compare the 2 really, because of Saku injuries and decease, there was always a nagging factor of "what is the real saku" in the evaluation of his play. While Jokinen, healthy for the most part, took 6 long year before a breakout that came because of keenan, i.e it took somebody else will to make him perform. I wouldnt call that consistency just yet. Hes also known to be on or off a bit ala Kovalev, but luckily, hes on more often. Rest of your analysis is pretty much dead on beside maybe the trade value evaluation witch is really to hard to guess in this cap world. Currently Lecavalier is the best player of this bunch but also get paid for that value. My point is, who knows what is the value of such lotteries with the cap making it so hard to move players.

What if Jokinen asked for a trade? He signed to play with luongo+big ufa to win, the first thing he got is no more goal tenders. I would look at the Pronger trade to find answers.

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12-28-2006, 03:24 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
I'd trade Price for Jokinen in a heartbeat.
Eh, strongly disagree with you there. I would never trade Price, he's our future #1 goalie, and that is the most important position in hockey. Much more important than a good center who is much more of a goal scorer than a passer, when what we need is really a C who can dish out the puck to Sammy/Kovalev.

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12-28-2006, 03:46 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
I would never trade Price, he's our future #1 goalie, and that is the most important position in hockey. Much more important than a good center who is much more of a goal scorer than a passer, when what we need is really a C who can dish out the puck to Sammy/Kovalev.
We have other potential goalies in the future, and can acquire more. A top productive player with an immediate impact and who is still young is too rare and too good an asset to pass up.

As to the lines, if Ryder goes in the deal, then move Kovalev over to Koivu-Higgins, and play Samsonov and Perezhogin with Jokinen. Ollie provides the "power" to this line. If after a suitable time trying, Perez can't stick as a top-6 forward, we can try Kostitsyn some day.

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12-28-2006, 04:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1 View Post
Price is an untouchable at this point.
I'd trade Price for Crosby... My point is that noone on the habs is untouchable if the right deal comes along.

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Old
12-28-2006, 06:26 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
I'd trade Price for Crosby... My point is that noone on the habs is untouchable if the right deal comes along.
Exactly. As good as Price sounds or we project to be, he's still not NHL proven. We'd have to be careful who we dealt him for if we were to deal him, but if we're getting a really good proven player then you have to be smart.

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12-29-2006, 12:35 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Eh, strongly disagree with you there. I would never trade Price, he's our future #1 goalie, and that is the most important position in hockey. Much more important than a good center who is much more of a goal scorer than a passer, when what we need is really a C who can dish out the puck to Sammy/Kovalev.
Price is a really good prospect. Jokinen is a really good NHL player with a good contract at a position where we desperately need help.
Not to mention that we have other good goaltending prospects.
I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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12-29-2006, 01:22 PM
  #63
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Price...Samsnonov...Ryder...Kovalev for Jokinen?

are u serious?


****sigh*****

typical of habs fan

How can u expect to get a player like jokinen if don't want to give guys like Higgins or Markov?

Kovalev and samsonov haha

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