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2013-2014 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread 2.0

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Old
11-23-2013, 04:40 PM
  #376
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Post-draft seasons:

(50) Lucic - 70gp, 68pts
(16) Wilson- 48gp, 58pts
(43) Blunden- 60gp, 84pts
(16) Gillies- 58gp, 47pts
(41) Bickell - 66gp, 54pts
(25) Nemisz - 65gp, 77pts
(33) McRae - 59gp, 60pts
(13) Kassian - 38gp, 31pts

Tried to find forwards in the first two rounds that are similar in size and role to McCarron. Couldn't find many under .5 PPG, whether they ended up being good NHL players or not. This isn't meant to be a biased list trying to prove a point, I'm just looking for comparables and perspective.


Last edited by Draft: 11-23-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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11-23-2013, 04:40 PM
  #377
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First of all, aside from maybe 10 players in every draft years - they are all projects - so saying he's a project is stating the obvious.
You know what I mean. He was/is a MAJOR project. He had a second round profile.

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Secondly, no one said a word on Timmins, as a matter of fact this looks to be more of an organizational needs pick.
And that's a mistake.

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Thirdly, this is typical of posters who get into discussions based on their biases. You wanted Mantha - Habs pick McCarron - Mantha is lighting up the Q, McCarron is struggling - case closed. Forget about waiting 3-4 years to make an educated guess - it fits your narritive no.
Mantha wasn't there at 25, so it's not a Mantha vs McCarron debate. Though I would have tried to move up and get him considering our abundance of picks in the 2nd and 3rd.

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Finally - because we had 4 picks in the top 60 or so, it did give us a chance to take a bit of a risk on a player like McCarron - who's profile was greatly needed in our organization and if we develop correctly can be a game changer in terms of physicality.
I'd much rather we packaged a couple of those picks to move up. Mantha looks like a big, sniping 40 goal scorer in waiting. Plus he's from the Q?

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11-23-2013, 04:52 PM
  #378
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Maybe not, but you are like sandpaper... and it's wearing me out.


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(36) Petrovic - 69gp, 57pts
Alex Petrovic is a defenseman


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11-23-2013, 04:57 PM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
You know what I mean. He was/is a MAJOR project. He had a second round profile.



And that's a mistake.



Mantha wasn't there at 25, so it's not a Mantha vs McCarron debate. Though I would have tried to move up and get him considering our abundance of picks in the 2nd and 3rd.



I'd much rather we packaged a couple of those picks to move up. Mantha looks like a big, sniping 40 goal scorer in waiting. Plus he's from the Q?
Mantha is almost a full year older than McCarron, so he should be looking like a more polished product. Secondly, Mantha's questions were never whether or not he could score goals.. it's whether or not he has the heart, will or compete to be a scorer at the NHL level, especially in the play-offs where things get physical and tight.

The Habs have enough scoring talent that is questionable to get it done in tight checking. The last thing they need is another soft "goal" scorer who may not even survive in the NHL because he doesn't have any real fire to his game. The draft is judged in 5 years after for a reason. Remember when Perron was better than Pacioretty?

Finally, no one cares what league they are from. Mantha being from the Q has nothing to do with anything.

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11-23-2013, 05:00 PM
  #380
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Alex Petrovic is a defenseman
Nice catch, thanks!

Any I can add?

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11-23-2013, 05:25 PM
  #381
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Nice catch, thanks!

Any I can add?
Not exact same carbon copy of McCarron obviously but some big guys selected in the top 2 rounds going a bit further back

Name: GP - G -A - PTS
Raffi Torres: 55 - 33 - 37 - 70
Ben Eager: 58 - 16 - 24 - 40
Daniel Paille: 54 - 30 - 27 - 57
Anthony Stewart: 68 - 32 - 39 - 71
Chris Stewart: 61 - 36 - 46 - 82
Wayne Simmonds: 60 - 33 - 42 - 75
Eric Tangradi: 56 - 24 - 36 - 60
Kyle Clifford: 58 - 28 - 29 - 57
Scott Hartnell: NHL
Kyle Beach: 56 - 24 - 39 - 63
Jean-François Jacques: 59 - 20 - 24 - 44
Steve Bernier: 66 - 36 - 46 - 82
Bruce Graham: 47 - 23 - 19 - 42
Keven Veilleux: 61 - 17 - 47 - 64


Last edited by Mathletic: 11-23-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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11-23-2013, 05:34 PM
  #382
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Mantha is almost a full year older than McCarron, so he should be looking like a more polished product. Secondly, Mantha's questions were never whether or not he could score goals.. it's whether or not he has the heart, will or compete to be a scorer at the NHL level, especially in the play-offs where things get physical and tight.

The Habs have enough scoring talent that is questionable to get it done in tight checking. The last thing they need is another soft "goal" scorer who may not even survive in the NHL because he doesn't have any real fire to his game. The draft is judged in 5 years after for a reason. Remember when Perron was better than Pacioretty?

Finally, no one cares what league they are from. Mantha being from the Q has nothing to do with anything.
I remember us debating Mantha predraft.... your hate-on for him is irrational.

The guy is DOMINATING the Q right now, he's pretty much scoring a goal every game. And did you see his goals during the QMJHL/Russia series? Both were in tight, goals goal scorers score at the next level. He's going to be a french Vanek/Nash hybrid, a #1 sniping winger with size. How would he not be a perfect fit here?

And I don't really care if he's from the Q or not, I'm an anglo in Toronto, but it does add to his marketability if he were apart of this franchise.

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11-23-2013, 05:41 PM
  #383
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I'm sorry but 10 pts in 19 games in USHL is not what I call great production. Especially when Leblanc had 59 pts in 60 games in the same USHL.
He played for the USNDTP. It's not your average USHL team. They roll four lines and I assume his icetime was fairly limited. In fact they even play against NCAA teams, which have 19-24 year olds.

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11-23-2013, 05:43 PM
  #384
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He played for the USNDTP. It's not your average USHL team. They roll four lines and I assume his icetime was fairly limited. In fact they even play against NCAA teams, which have 19-24 year olds.
More excuses. Look at where he finished in scoring on that team:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...054342013.html

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11-23-2013, 05:45 PM
  #385
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He played for the USNDTP. It's not your average USHL team. They roll four lines and I assume his icetime was fairly limited. In fact they even play against NCAA teams, which have 19-24 year olds.
Those are his USHL stats, not NTDP overall stats which would include games against the NCAA. Besides, McCarron was 8th on the team in scoring/game on the U18 team for their USHL games. Even taking that into account, he wasn't lighting it up.

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11-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #386
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What do you not understand in the fact that Mantha wasnt available for our pick? You have to give Mccaron time, it took pacioretty almost 5 years to get where he is now.

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11-23-2013, 07:49 PM
  #387
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P.S. Who is this Jack Eichel guy ? And can we please draft him ?

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11-23-2013, 09:15 PM
  #388
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I insist, please, find something more interesting to do than bash a kid online that's playing a sport at a level that you could never dream of contributing at for even a split second.
I don't know if mccarron could dream to contribute in the ohl either

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11-23-2013, 10:00 PM
  #389
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Yes....we all need to be careful in assessing a player. I think that there's a HUGE difference between saying "I'm dissapointing in a player" and "that player is a bust" or "He'll NEVER be anything else than a 4th liner"....Last 2 statements are just way too premature to say the least. I remember not that long ago how McDonagh's WJC was so dissapointing he'd never amount to a whole lot.....Or when Justin Pogge was the greatest goalie in the face of this planet and so on....I think we have ENOUGH examples to be extremely careful in assessing to play of kids, especially in a short stint.

But it doesn't mean like we can't be dissapointed. Last year, Dalton Thrower had an AWFUL year. I think, probably one of the worst setback years that I've seen a Hab prospect have. And not only statswise, but I've seen him quite often (not live though), and I saw a guy who didn't bring anything offensively, was bad defensively, and looked lazy and disinterested. Frankly, he was giving up on so many plays it was scary. Yet....despite all that....despite the fact that the guy was already playing his 4th CHL year.....I called his play extremely dissapointed and he HAD to get right back on track as soon as this year 'cause if not...he would not have gotten a contract.....Well seems that he is playing great. Trade was awesome. So Thrower never busted.....but he was incredibly dissapointing. As far Big Mac, I think we were expecting a little more. I know I was expecting to see him on at least PP2. And be more relevant than he is. But he might come out soon. Sooner than we think. And if not, well next year will be key. And he will surely turn it around.
I completely agree with you. It's one thing to be disappointed as fans who can be a bit obsessive about prospects, it's another to declare that he's a bust/wrong pick/mistake/etc. I won't disagree with anyone who feels the former, but I just don't understand how anyone can possibly be right in believing the latter. Maybe they'll have guessed right, down the road, but right now we're talking about an oversized kid with a bad shoulder six months from being drafted. Let's just see.

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11-23-2013, 10:41 PM
  #390
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I think I'm gonna stop visiting this thread after being a favourite of mine. Quiet night for our prospects.

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11-23-2013, 10:43 PM
  #391
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Who would you have taken instead of McCarron? With hindsight...

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11-23-2013, 10:48 PM
  #392
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Who would you have taken instead of McCarron? With hindsight...
The more popular pic was Zykov. Erne and Hartman were the others.

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11-23-2013, 10:56 PM
  #393
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Klimchuk or Hartman were my picks

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11-23-2013, 10:58 PM
  #394
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Who would you have taken instead of McCarron? With hindsight...
Despite his rocky start, I still would have taken Justin Bailey.

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11-23-2013, 11:10 PM
  #395
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Bailey looks interesting. 6' ppg junior players are not likely to help the habs, but Bailey might have. There are lots of small to average guys who can score in the habs system.

Mantha's having an amazing year but there has to be someone from further down who is breaking through. There were a couple of guys from the late rounds on the subway series.

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11-23-2013, 11:20 PM
  #396
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Bailey looks interesting. 6' ppg junior players are not likely to help the habs, but Bailey might have. There are lots of small to average guys who can score in the habs system.

Mantha's having an amazing year but there has to be someone from further down who is breaking through. There were a couple of guys from the late rounds on the subway series.
Bailey is 6'3 and has never been a ppg player in junior though.

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11-23-2013, 11:25 PM
  #397
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Bailey looks interesting. 6' ppg junior players are not likely to help the habs, but Bailey might have. There are lots of small to average guys who can score in the habs system.

Mantha's having an amazing year but there has to be someone from further down who is breaking through. There were a couple of guys from the late rounds on the subway series.
Clearly scouting did not think too highly of Bailey and Zykov considering they passed on both three times.

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11-23-2013, 11:34 PM
  #398
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I know Zykov is playing in the CHL but he is russian. Organization might be building towards '' character'' players with size haha. They may learnt their lesson with the Kostitsyns, Grabo, Perezhogin and what else? This might bet the reason why we didnt draft Zykov. Plus you can add prospects like Avtsin or Trunev who didnt pan out at all.

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11-23-2013, 11:55 PM
  #399
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P.S. Who is this Jack Eichel guy ? And can we please draft him ?
He's a beast, he's available in 2015.

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11-23-2013, 11:57 PM
  #400
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The more popular pic was Zykov. Erne and Hartman were the others.
I know it's not necessarily what you meant, but the popular opinion is not necessarily the best.

What was the popular opinion in the Halak/Price debate?

What about O'Byrne vs Bournival?

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