HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 7) Can't Win Olympic Games Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-23-2013, 04:41 PM
  #601
Apoplectic Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Apoplectic Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PraiseMT.FeelBetter?
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
You guys are confusing a team sitting back and protecting a lead with "bad defense". The Habs stopped attacking and forechecking in the 3rd.
OR people are seeing what, the three breakaways they gave up, countless odd man rushes that they got lucky on Cus the ice was crap, the ease guys like backstrom took the blueline right into the high slot area, or times like when Backstrom was able to just sit behind the defense completely forgotten.

None of it had to do with protecting a lead.

Apoplectic Habs Fan is offline  
Old
11-23-2013, 05:50 PM
  #602
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 37,806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No particular axe. Just funny that after watching over a half dozen different sports anchor desks on various channels (including/especially TSN) describe a "good defensive effort" that night despite allowing 40 shots, it wasn't good enough for you. Now that TSN said it about this game, though, there's apparently no room for debate because we were the "better team" (read: our goalie erased a LOT of mistakes from people's minds).



To me it has nothing to do with who is in nets, but rather how the game is evaluated.



Yeah, and yet our goalie still only faced 32 shots because of the performance of the defense. Giveaways among the forward groups that night were Montreal 7 - St. Louis 0, if you're still wondering why so many shots had to be blocked that night, btw. Forwards cheating leaving the zone early and not supporting the puck during the start of transition created problems all night too, but I digress...



Everyone who is paid to think/talk/discuss hockey on TV agreed with me. I'm sure some armchair experts at their keyboards somewhere have their reasons for disagreeing, but we're talking about the performance of the team on the defensive side of the puck exclusively here - not their inability to escape the forechecking of one of the best defensive and forechecking teams in the league.



Yes, in entire season aggregate, it's a bad trend. When you face a better team than you, though, and it's what it takes to get at least a point out of the game and get to overtime, it can still be a good effort in a one game sample.



There's no big blow up. If I think someone is contradicting themselves, I'll point it out. If you write long probing responses to my posts, I'm going to try my best to explain myself fully and completely (which I think I'll cue up on my MP3 list, actually). It's really that simple. Mediocre's fine, like I said in the first place. Still amuses me how a game where we allowed such a high number of quality scoring chances was so easily/casually described as a "good" defensive effort at first, though, considering.
Dude, we're not going to agree on every game. And I'm not going to run through this one with you again.

On more than one occasion I've taken your opinion over mine in these ratings. Here's one where I didn't and I told you why. You don't like it? Like I said, file it away for yourself as a game you disagree with and move on.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-23-2013, 06:16 PM
  #603
habsfanatics*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Dude, we're not going to agree on every game. And I'm not going to run through this one with you again.

On more than one occasion I've taken your opinion over mine in these ratings. Here's one where I didn't and I told you why. You don't like it? Like I said, file it away for yourself as a game you disagree with and move on.
I side with ohashi here and I've been completely fair throughout this whole process. thought we played well for 1/2 to 2/3 of the game, but Budaj stood on his head for a long enough stretch to downgrade the performance to D bad imo. I think Budaj stole us that one if I'm being completely honest.

habsfanatics* is offline  
Old
11-23-2013, 08:03 PM
  #604
thewall
Registered User
 
thewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,357
vCash: 500
Great first period by Carey tonight!

thewall is offline  
Old
11-23-2013, 08:54 PM
  #605
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 28,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Dude, we're not going to agree on every game.
That's obviously not even the issue. It's why. And even with the last game specifically, it's not about the rating of mediocre, it's the fact that it had to be talked down from good.

And of course you took my opinion for some of them. You admitted to not watching some of those games for yourself, and no one seemed to disagree, so...

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
11-23-2013, 11:39 PM
  #606
Traitor8
Registered User
 
Traitor8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Iraq
Posts: 4,921
vCash: 500
Carey is playing amazing this year. I hope he keeps it up!

PS - This is what "elite" looks like ..and not what he was doing last year or the years before that.

He's not elite yet though ..he has to do it over a long period of time + the most important time (playoffs).

Traitor8 is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:56 AM
  #607
NLHabsFan
Registered User
 
NLHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,622
vCash: 500
He's been great so far. I think he's up there with Rask and Harding as the 3 best in the first quarter of the season.

NLHabsFan is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:00 AM
  #608
KrejciMVP
Registered User
 
KrejciMVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,517
vCash: 500
Gotta give credit where credit is due go Price

KrejciMVP is online now  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:11 AM
  #609
BlackStar
Registered User
 
BlackStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Carey is playing amazing this year. I hope he keeps it up!

PS - This is what "elite" looks like ..and not what he was doing last year or the years before that.

He's not elite yet though ..he has to do it over a long period of time + the most important time (playoffs).
Price has been an elite goalie for four seasons now, one bad year (he was actually only bad late last year and playoffs, he was a vezina candidate with 30-35 games into the shortened season) doesn't change that.

BlackStar is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:59 AM
  #610
Traitor8
Registered User
 
Traitor8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Iraq
Posts: 4,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
Price has been an elite goalie for four seasons now, one bad year (he was actually only bad late last year and playoffs, he was a vezina candidate with 30-35 games into the shortened season) doesn't change that.
lol ...1 bad year? He had at least 2 (one where he lost the starting position to Halak).

Anyways I don't want to get into the definition of elite...just enjoy that Price is playing well but the problem of calling him elite in the past is what do you call him this year? Super elite?

Traitor8 is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 04:19 AM
  #611
Aceekay
Registered User
 
Aceekay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
lol ...1 bad year? He had at least 2 (one where he lost the starting position to Halak).

Anyways I don't want to get into the definition of elite...just enjoy that Price is playing well but the problem of calling him elite in the past is what do you call him this year? Super elite?
Price was 22 and still developing, halak was 24 and more prepared to a be a starter. you have to expect inconsistency in young players, especially young goalies. Most goalies don't even become starters until they're 25.

Aceekay is online now  
Old
11-24-2013, 09:08 AM
  #612
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 28,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Price was 22 and still developing, halak was 24 and more prepared to a be a starter. you have to expect inconsistency in young players, especially young goalies. Most goalies don't even become starters until they're 25.
Expectations are obviously higher when you're given the job by age 21 though... Regardless, the wait for the Price we've been expecting is pretty much over it would seem, which is good news moving forward.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 09:54 AM
  #613
NLHabsFan
Registered User
 
NLHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Expectations are obviously higher when you're given the job by age 21 though... Regardless, the wait for the Price we've been expecting is pretty much over it would seem, which is good news moving forward.
I agree. I just hope people realize that the best goalies in the league still have bad games and soft goals. Unfortunately I still expect posters to rear their heads when those happen to Price.

NLHabsFan is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:12 PM
  #614
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 57,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
lol ...1 bad year? He had at least 2 (one where he lost the starting position to Halak).

Anyways I don't want to get into the definition of elite...just enjoy that Price is playing well but the problem of calling him elite in the past is what do you call him this year? Super elite?
Price was perfectly fine in 2010, Halak was just better.

Fish on The Sand is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:19 PM
  #615
Luiginho
Captain Saku
 
Luiginho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 13,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
lol ...1 bad year? He had at least 2 (one where he lost the starting position to Halak).

Anyways I don't want to get into the definition of elite...just enjoy that Price is playing well but the problem of calling him elite in the past is what do you call him this year? Super elite?
Price was good that season, Halak was just outstanding. Price had only one bad half season which was last year.

Luiginho is online now  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:20 PM
  #616
pine*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Price was perfectly fine in 2010, Halak was just better.
No, if one is good, the other one necessarily sucks, that's the way it is.

pine* is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:35 PM
  #617
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 37,806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That's obviously not even the issue. It's why. And even with the last game specifically, it's not about the rating of mediocre, it's the fact that it had to be talked down from good.

And of course you took my opinion for some of them. You admitted to not watching some of those games for yourself, and no one seemed to disagree, so...
Dude... give it a rest. I changed it right away. In my post I said I personally thought the D was medicore. I put in good because of the reasons stated and folks kept overrulling me when I said mediocre previously. It's medicore... no convincing had to be done here. Nobody had to be talked down from anything either... You're talking like I needed to be convinced... I didn't. You are arguing for no reason here. Mediocre, we agree. OKAY???? Jimminy Crickets man...

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:36 PM
  #618
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 37,806
vCash: 500
I haven't seen last night's game yet btw, but I've PVRrd it and will try to catch up on it later. What was the verdict for Price and the D?

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:41 PM
  #619
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 37,806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
I agree. I just hope people realize that the best goalies in the league still have bad games and soft goals. Unfortunately I still expect posters to rear their heads when those happen to Price.
He's been among the best for a while now. And since the 2011 season has been a fixture in the top five lists. His numbers this year are solid for sure but its not like he hasn't played like this in the past. All it takes is a couple of bad games (and they will happen) and those numbers will take a dive. That's how save percentage works...

And when that happens the usual suspects will show up in this thread again...

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 12:46 PM
  #620
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 37,806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I side with ohashi here and I've been completely fair throughout this whole process. thought we played well for 1/2 to 2/3 of the game, but Budaj stood on his head for a long enough stretch to downgrade the performance to D bad imo. I think Budaj stole us that one if I'm being completely honest.
Budaj was great. No question. To say he stole it? Hard to say that when you're up 3-0 in the first but I know what you're saying. The team did it's usual sleep job once we were up, at least this time it was only for 8 minutes instead of the last two periods as per usual.

We rely on our goalies more than we should. At least we're starting to score goals again.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:27 PM
  #621
Bryson
Registered User
 
Bryson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Dude... give it a rest. I changed it right away. In my post I said I personally thought the D was medicore. I put in good because of the reasons stated and folks kept overrulling me when I said mediocre previously. It's medicore... no convincing had to be done here. Nobody had to be talked down from anything either... You're talking like I needed to be convinced... I didn't. You are arguing for no reason here. Mediocre, we agree. OKAY???? Jimminy Crickets man...
Lafleurs Guy just breathe. Ohashi_Jouzu is just stating his opinion. It was a difficult game to rate. For example after an even first the team dominated the 2nd period 14-3 but fell apart in the 3rd with shots being 11-4 against us. Was this some part of MT strategy to sit on the lead because I noticed in comparison that last night the habs kept forechecking hard right till the end instead of sitting back.

Defense also gave up a ton of breakaways and oddman rushes. For years we have been saying it would be nice if our goalie could stop those once in awhile, well Budaj stopped all of them! I don't care what the score is, if your goalie kept you in a game that you had no business winning I'd put that in the steal category. Now ask yourself if Budaj let in those goals it would be hard to fault him but would you still say the D was medicore or bad?

Last nights game was just as equally difficult to rate. The first goal was a perfect snipe by Neal. The second one was a complete cluster ****. Habs were caught in the midst of a change and Desharnais let Malkin pick up speed in the neutral zone and the one time the coaches failed to have the right defenders on for the Malkin line and they get scored on. Who do you blame? DD, coaches, Diaz and Boullion? I think we call all agree the only consistency we have seen all season has been from our superb goaltending.

Bryson is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:40 PM
  #622
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 37,806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Lafleurs Guy just breathe. Ohashi_Jouzu is just stating his opinion. It was a difficult game to rate. For example after an even first the team dominated the 2nd period 14-3 but fell apart in the 3rd with shots being 11-4 against us. Was this some part of MT strategy to sit on the lead because I noticed in comparison that last night the habs kept forechecking hard right till the end instead of sitting back.

Defense also gave up a ton of breakaways and oddman rushes. For years we have been saying it would be nice if our goalie could stop those once in awhile, well Budaj stopped all of them! I don't care what the score is, if your goalie kept you in a game that you had no business winning I'd put that in the steal category. Now ask yourself if Budaj let in those goals it would be hard to fault him but would you still say the D was medicore or bad?
That's an interesting one. Does a bad half period make for a 'bad' game? I'd say it can make a difference depending on how well the D had been playing before.

I'd say the D was mostly sloppy for the first period but we were up three goals at one point. The 2nd and first half of the 3rd the Caps just fell asleep. Then we had 8 minutes of insanity.

If Budaj had let some in... what would I have said? Very good question. And it's a tough question to answer.

I guess it would depend on which ones he let in. If they were goals that he should've stopped, I probably would've downgraded Budaj to mediocre because he already had let in one soft goal. If it was on the D, then yeah I'd point to the D as being responsible. Don't know if I would've downgraded it all the way down to bad because for at least half the game we were well in control and in the first period (despite sloppy play) we were up three goals until the last minute.

But those last 8 minutes were terrible without a doubt. If the D was responsible for a couple of goals in that last 8 minutes though and Budaj wasn't to blame? I'd probably downgrade them yes.

As I've said before, I downgrade the D based on a couple of factors. How we played and whether or not I hold them responsible for the goals that get scored. So far I'd actually say that our D has been gettign better ratings than it should because our goalies have covered up for a lot of mistakes. I've voted mediocre on a few occassions and folks have disagreed. In my opinion, there are more mediocre games that we've played than are listed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Last nights game was just as equally difficult to rate. The first goal was a perfect snipe by Neal. The second one was a complete cluster ****. Habs were caught in the midst of a change and Desharnais let Malkin pick up speed in the neutral zone and the one time the coaches failed to have the right defenders on for the Malkin line and they get scored on. Who do you blame? DD, coaches, Diaz and Boullion? I think we call all agree the only consistency we have seen all season has been from our superb goaltending.
So you vote Good for goaltending... how about the D?

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:49 PM
  #623
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 28,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Defense also gave up a ton of breakaways and oddman rushes. For years we have been saying it would be nice if our goalie could stop those once in awhile, well Budaj stopped all of them! I don't care what the score is, if your goalie kept you in a game that you had no business winning I'd put that in the steal category. Now ask yourself if Budaj let in those goals it would be hard to fault him but would you still say the D was medicore or bad?
Exactly.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 01:52 PM
  #624
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 28,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Dude... give it a rest. I changed it right away. In my post I said I personally thought the D was medicore. I put in good because of the reasons stated and folks kept overrulling me when I said mediocre previously. It's medicore... no convincing had to be done here. Nobody had to be talked down from anything either... You're talking like I needed to be convinced... I didn't. You are arguing for no reason here. Mediocre, we agree. OKAY???? Jimminy Crickets man...
I haven't actually argued anything for a few posts now. I've gone to great length explaining a great many things to you, and little else, actually. Simmer down.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
11-24-2013, 02:04 PM
  #625
Traitor8
Registered User
 
Traitor8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Iraq
Posts: 4,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I haven't seen last night's game yet btw, but I've PVRrd it and will try to catch up on it later. What was the verdict for Price and the D?
Price excellent
D - Good

Traitor8 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.