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Old
10-18-2013, 04:05 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post
I want Haley up and not Powe

I'm sick of the disinterest in physicality

There's no spark to the team anymore

Even less with Cally out
Why did they send Asham down? He had two fights in these first 6 games. At least he's not afraid to step up.

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10-18-2013, 04:07 PM
  #502
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I agree our toughness at times is questioned... Theres only like two guys who are ready to brawl after a hit on Nash or Stepan as we have seen and thats Callahan and Dorsett. It comes down to this, our forwards are pretty small and our defense doesnt want to get in a fight and lose big time minutes when there needed like Girardi or McDonagh. Falk would also probably fight no issues to stick up for someone.

Im tired of it too. And I like a tough team.

But so long as they continue to forecheck, keep possession and complete breakouts then they will have no issues.

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10-18-2013, 04:11 PM
  #503
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Why did they send Asham down? He had two fights in these first 6 games. At least he's not afraid to step up.
I agree, that was far from a solution...almost scapegoatish...hey our scorers aren't scoring so we'll send down Asham and put Miller on the 4th line....just doesn't pan out

At this point in their careers though Haley>Asham for sparkplug purposes...although Asham is probably a safer bet to not make stupid mistakes.





It's honestly ridiculous how tough our AHL team is....Asham, Haley, McIlrath, Mashinter and so forth and how the NHL team is a breeze to play against

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10-19-2013, 12:08 PM
  #504
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I'd like to know how Sather goes from the guy who signed John Scott when the team already had Rupp, Prust and Bickel to the guy who now has one of the softest teams in the NHL. The Islanders (Carkner, Martin and Boulton) are licking their chops for Oct. 30.

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10-19-2013, 12:17 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
I'd like to know how Sather goes from the guy who signed John Scott when the team already had Rupp, Prust and Bickel to the guy who now has one of the softest teams in the NHL. The Islanders (Carkner, Martin and Boulton) are licking their chops for Oct. 30.
Because Sather's reactions are always knee-jerk and not very well thought out.

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10-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
I'd like to know how Sather goes from the guy who signed John Scott when the team already had Rupp, Prust and Bickel to the guy who now has one of the softest teams in the NHL. The Islanders (Carkner, Martin and Boulton) are licking their chops for Oct. 30.
Boulton is a very good fighter but not a particularly good physical player. His skating kind of sucks and that makes him a not very effective forechecker. Carkner is not a great skater either and is mistake prone. The definition of a bottom pairing NHL d-man. He's a guy you play (at least most of the time) but don't give big minutes too. I wouldn't worry about those two all that much.

Martin OTOH is big, strong and a very good skater and an extremely good 3rd line forechecker. He pk's very well and he's good with the gloves off. He can also pitch in the odd goal here and there. One of the most underrated players in the league IMO.

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10-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Boulton is a very good fighter but not a particularly good physical player. His skating kind of sucks and that makes him a not very effective forechecker. Carkner is not a great skater either and is mistake prone. The definition of a bottom pairing NHL d-man. He's a guy you play (at least most of the time) but don't give big minutes too. I wouldn't worry about those two all that much.

Martin OTOH is big, strong and a very good skater and an extremely good 3rd line forechecker. He pk's very well and he's good with the gloves off. He can also pitch in the odd goal here and there. One of the most underrated players in the league IMO.
there is still an intimidation factor regardless of what the "new" NHL wants you to think. MSG may be all fancy now but Sather has made it user friendly for opposing teams. It's not like our fourth line is an asset right now. Haley and Mashinter flanking Moore would solve some problems.

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10-19-2013, 02:26 PM
  #508
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Sather is a proponent to a tougher team but also see's the value in adding that type of player to a larger role. He evidenced this last year with the addition of Clowe. But...Pending UFA with concussions and no funds to bring him back means they needed to address the lack of physicality with cheaper alternatives that play less minutes. I truly think he has tried hard to gain a player or two that can add this dimension in a role that matters but he's come up short.


Last edited by Lion Hound: 10-19-2013 at 11:05 PM.
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10-19-2013, 03:13 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
there is still an intimidation factor regardless of what the "new" NHL wants you to think. MSG may be all fancy now but Sather has made it user friendly for opposing teams. It's not like our fourth line is an asset right now. Haley and Mashinter flanking Moore would solve some problems.
I'm sorry but Boulton and Carkner should not be that intimidating. Sure they can beat the daylights out of anyone on our team but they're marginal players at best.

On the question of how tough the current Rangers are?--they are not tough at all and I do see that as a big problem. Instead of using the Islanders as an example as you do I'd rather point out a much more successful team like the Bruins who do have physical players who can play and who can and do intimidate those teams that are not tough enough--the Rangers being one of them. Lucic just for one example is a huge almost nuclearic advantage for them that the Rangers clearly have no answer for apart from maybe McIlrath but that seems down the road a bit.

The thing though that you don't seem to be getting is that employing goons that can't play at the NHL level does not help our team. What we have to do is find guys like Matt Martin who can play. As for Mashinter and Haley--can't be any worse than Powe or Pyatt--I'm all for it but keep in mind Haley is a middleweight and Mashinter's not that frequent a fighter--so keep your expectations on an even keel and that for them to be worthwhile they'll have to do more than just fight--they'll need to contribute in other ways.

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10-19-2013, 03:47 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I'm sorry but Boulton and Carkner should not be that intimidating. Sure they can beat the daylights out of anyone on our team but they're marginal players at best.

On the question of how tough the current Rangers are?--they are not tough at all and I do see that as a big problem. Instead of using the Islanders as an example as you do I'd rather point out a much more successful team like the Bruins who do have physical players who can play and who can and do intimidate those teams that are not tough enough--the Rangers being one of them. Lucic just for one example is a huge almost nuclearic advantage for them that the Rangers clearly have no answer for apart from maybe McIlrath but that seems down the road a bit.

The thing though that you don't seem to be getting is that employing goons that can't play at the NHL level does not help our team. What we have to do is find guys like Matt Martin who can play. As for Mashinter and Haley--can't be any worse than Powe or Pyatt--I'm all for it but keep in mind Haley is a middleweight and Mashinter's not that frequent a fighter--so keep your expectations on an even keel and that for them to be worthwhile they'll have to do more than just fight--they'll need to contribute in other ways.
Mash is not a frequent fighter but he has size and is good at it whenever he fights... its most likely the only way he can stay in the NHL.. its a shame he does not do this on a regular basis..

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10-19-2013, 04:49 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I'm sorry but Boulton and Carkner should not be that intimidating. Sure they can beat the daylights out of anyone on our team but they're marginal players at best.

On the question of how tough the current Rangers are?--they are not tough at all and I do see that as a big problem. Instead of using the Islanders as an example as you do I'd rather point out a much more successful team like the Bruins who do have physical players who can play and who can and do intimidate those teams that are not tough enough--the Rangers being one of them. Lucic just for one example is a huge almost nuclearic advantage for them that the Rangers clearly have no answer for apart from maybe McIlrath but that seems down the road a bit.

The thing though that you don't seem to be getting is that employing goons that can't play at the NHL level does not help our team. What we have to do is find guys like Matt Martin who can play. As for Mashinter and Haley--can't be any worse than Powe or Pyatt--I'm all for it but keep in mind Haley is a middleweight and Mashinter's not that frequent a fighter--so keep your expectations on an even keel and that for them to be worthwhile they'll have to do more than just fight--they'll need to contribute in other ways.
Pretty good summary ....but highly doubt the Isles will dress all 3 against the Rangers ...heck...why would they ??? Martin alone would be more than enough to handle anybody on our roster . Bickel should be playing as a 4th liner every night .

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10-20-2013, 02:26 PM
  #512
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asham was probably sacrificed because of the lack of offense, funny thing is during preseason he was one of only a few threats on this team

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10-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #513
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I know some of you dont like the stars fighting but look at this... id love to have Jamie Benn on this team... 5th round pick.. Beauchemin isnt bad either...... dallas has a good future right now..

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11-24-2013, 09:54 AM
  #514
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sill lacks it and has been the difference in every game played... sather has his work cut out if he wants this team goin deep into PS, i have no dobt this team as it is gets in barring any forseen injuries, but dorsett is clearly not enough!

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11-24-2013, 10:35 AM
  #515
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Dorsett got destroyed in that fight last night, almost funny to watch.

We need a tough heavyweight who can play some decent hockey, not a goon.

A Ryane Clowe type of guy. I didn't follow this off season, don't know why he wasn't re-signed, injury prone perhaps..

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11-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
A Ryane Clowe type of guy. I didn't follow this off season, don't know why he wasn't re-signed, injury prone perhaps..
Yup, injury prone (concussion related), and very expensive. Prior to this season, he signed a 5 year deal with the Devils for 5 mill a season.

The only thing that could possibly have kept him here would probably have been buying out Richards (havent done the maths, so i dont know if that would have been enough ?). If not, you'd be looking at moving other major pieces like Stepan, Nash, Cally, Hank, etc.

Edit : As a sidenote, Clowe has been out since mid October.. with concussion symptoms.

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11-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Dorsett got destroyed in that fight last night, almost funny to watch.

We need a tough heavyweight who can play some decent hockey, not a goon.

A Ryane Clowe type of guy. I didn't follow this off season, don't know why he wasn't re-signed, injury prone perhaps..
Tough heavyweights that can actually play the game barely exist. The only reason Ryane Clowe was available last year was because he's slow as **** and injury prone. Those types are almost never available for good deals. I'd have liked Patrick Bordeleau this offseason but he got resigned by the Avs. I don't know what players you guys have in mind.

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11-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #518
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Toughness is overrated imo. A team just has to have guys who are willing to stand up for their guys or willing to take a hit to make a play

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11-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #519
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i think the NYR are trying to go in the Detroit red wings direction . Det has not been a fighting team but has some players with grit and toughness .
going forward : Mcilrath if and when , Miller if and when , yogan , Dorsett , cally Ck are all physical players . they are not fighters but they are physical players . Puck possesion and forecheck is as much about physicality and toughness as anything . Staged fighting is dead and dying .
Board battles and winning loose pucks is where its at not fighting majors . Im not saying you should let teams take liberties with your stars but you wanna win games the way to win them is holding onto the puck and making plays , something that the last few weeks the NYR have gotten better at .

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11-24-2013, 01:03 PM
  #520
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Toughness is overrated imo. A team just has to have guys who are willing to stand up for their guys or willing to take a hit to make a play


it's important going into each game, to have your opponent know if you mess with our best there will be payback..

tiny dorsett, not scary!

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11-24-2013, 01:11 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Pastafazul View Post
it's important going into each game, to have your opponent know if you mess with our best there will be payback..

tiny dorsett, not scary!
I'd rather have them know that we can make them pay by having a lethal PP, but, ya know, that's just me.

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11-24-2013, 01:48 PM
  #522
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I'd rather have them know that we can make them pay by having a lethal PP, but, ya know, that's just me.
No. Punching faces >> scoring PP goals.

AINEC.

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11-24-2013, 03:11 PM
  #523
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Boyle is a typical example when it comes to our problem with the lack of tough players. He's a huge man, but soft as silk. Last night when he ended up backwards into the boards on his ass was kinda funny, and Dorsett had to answer the bell for him.

Credits to Dorsett, but he just isn't a good fighter, nor does he have the size.

We have Falk and Mashinter, but they look scared, had a fight each and got pounded.

I know these heavyweights usually arent good players, but next time a player like Jody Shelley ends up on waivers we should pick him up. We definitely need a tough guy to protect our key players.

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11-24-2013, 03:15 PM
  #524
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it's important going into each game, to have your opponent know if you mess with our best there will be payback..

tiny dorsett, not scary!

And what happens when we have all these big tough guys that everyone wants and Nash or Stepan still get hit up high? You think anybody cares that there will be payback? What NHL teams really get scared anyway?

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11-24-2013, 04:23 PM
  #525
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And what happens when we have all these big tough guys that everyone wants and Nash or Stepan still get hit up high? You think anybody cares that there will be payback? What NHL teams really get scared anyway?
The risk of injury to key players will be reduced, less dirty hits.

And we dont have to look like a bunch of sissys getting owned, like last night with Boyle and Dorsett.

But hey...where's that tough dude fans talk so much about, eh...Kreider?

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