Sure. As long as you take note of the fact that it generally takes defenseman longer to develop ...
And as long as you note that Fischer, for all his promise, never really did develop.
Seriously, though.
What combination of LA line rolling would make it so bloody hard to give kids icetime in a lopsided game against a bottom feeder?
Not to throw too much of a wet blanket on your hysteria by pointing out reality, but I think you may want to remember that the game was a 2 goal game 4:27 into the third... so it's not like it started out 6-0 in the first ten or anything like that.
If you look at the shift chart, you'd notice that the kids got their bump in time once it became a 3 goal advantage.
Also, while LA's far from a great team they did hang 7 on Edmonton in Edmonton as well as beating Colorado, Anaheim, and San Jose this month... so it's not like the team is one that a club should feel comfortable totally ignoring.
Fischer struggled to stay in the lineup for years, was guilty of boneheaded giveaways and penalties. He had a great playoff in 02, and then struggled again ...
Finally, in the few games prior to his terrible collapse, he showed signs of poise.
But I think it's VERY ACCURATE to say that he never really did develop into the great defensemen we all hoped he'd be.
He may have done so ... Maybe by this year.
But with Jiri, it was always two very slow steps forward, one step back.
Any other reading of it is probably made under the "get well Jiri" sentiment.
And trust me, I loved Fischer. I had high hopes for him. And I really thought he was playing well in 05, finally using the speed and size to his advantage.
But he was far from a guy who reached his potential.
I'm just curious, do you only look at final ice times? Or do you look at the shift charts? Because after the game was blown wide open they got as close to regular shifts as they've gotten all year.
Yeah, they got bumped up a bit.
And still, Babcock felt forced to answer a question about their lack of IT. I wonder why?
You're 100 percent for paying guys based on potential.
Fair enough. To illustrate the amount of verascity to your claim regarding my opinion, who could Detroit sign in the offseason for 3 mil a year or less in a multi-year deal who would be an upgrade over Kronwall right now setting aside any discussion of 'upside'?
So, I assume, as per usual, you just want to argue without actually making a point of your own.
You must lead an interesting life, there, HD.
Blahblahblah, Tincan.
Obviously Fischer developed.
Obviously your own personal expectations of him far surpassed what he as a player actually was, and as a result you now take a silly position that the guy never developed.
Obviously you think a guy has to be a two way defenseman in order to 'develop'.
And just as obviously, rather than discuss any of those issues you're going to obfuscate and spin.
Obviously your own personal expectations of him far surpassed what he as a player actually was, and as a result you now take a silly position that the guy never developed.
Obviously you think a guy has to be a two way defenseman in order to 'develop'.
And just as obviously, rather than discuss any of those issues you're going to obfuscate and spin.
Too bad.
Good Lord.
Ask any wings fan. Jiri NEVER developed into the player they hoped he'd be. The player the Wings said he'd be.
He was still growing as a hockey player when his career ended.
He may still have reached his potential. But he wasn't there yet. Not on the defensive side of the game. Not on the offensive side of the game. And not in the mental part of the game.
Good Lord.
Ask any wings fan. Jiri NEVER developed into the player they hoped he'd be. The player the Wings said he'd be.
He was still growing as a hockey player when his career ended.
He may still have reached his potential. But he wasn't there yet. Not on the defensive side of the game. Not on the offensive side of the game. And not in the mental part of the game.
You say it yourself, he was still growing as a hockey player. Which means that he hadn't stagnated, he didn't just grow up to be a mediocre player and stop developing. He continued developing and as he was still a relatively young guy when his career ended, there's absolutely nothing there to indicate that he was a bust on the contrary. He had won himself a regular spot on a very good Red Wings team and continued getting better year after year.
Just because he didn't become the next [insert your favorite d-man here] in few months time, doesn't mean he was a bust. Some people develop fast, and for some it takes a while longer.
You say it yourself, he was still growing as a hockey player. Which means that he hadn't stagnated, he didn't just grow up to be a mediocre player and stop developing. He continued developing and as he was still a relatively young guy when his career ended, there's absolutely nothing there to indicate that he was a bust on the contrary. He had won himself a regular spot on a very good Red Wings team and continued getting better year after year.
Just because he didn't become the next [insert your favorite d-man here] in few months time, doesn't mean he was a bust. Some people develop fast, and for some it takes a while longer.
This is all spot on.
Fischer went from an extremely tenative guy who when he finally made a decision usually made the wrong one to a player who was on the verge of locking down a top pairing spot with his unexpected speed and obvious physicality, and who in his final year actually started getting a little PP time to go with his top-notch work on the PK.
To say he never developed is ridiculous.
That he never developed into the player some people may have thought he would become is a function of a) wildly unreasonable expectations for defensemen coming from fans of a team which has been spoiled by guys like Lidstrom and Konstantinov on their blue line and b) playing his last game of NHL hockey at 26.
You say it yourself, he was still growing as a hockey player. Which means that he hadn't stagnated, he didn't just grow up to be a mediocre player and stop developing. He continued developing and as he was still a relatively young guy when his career ended, there's absolutely nothing there to indicate that he was a bust on the contrary. He had won himself a regular spot on a very good Red Wings team and continued getting better year after year.
Just because he didn't become the next [insert your favorite d-man here] in few months time, doesn't mean he was a bust. Some people develop fast, and for some it takes a while longer.
Sorry, I didn't mean He didn't develop at all ...
I've created a misunderstanding.
He wasn't a bust.
But he cleary never developed into the player the Wings had hoped he'd be,.
Fischer went from an extremely tenative guy who when he finally made a decision usually made the wrong one to a player who was on the verge of locking down a top pairing spot with his unexpected speed and obvious physicality, and who in his final year actually started getting a little PP time to go with his top-notch work on the PK.
To say he never developed is ridiculous.
That he never developed into the player some people may have thought he would become is a function of a) wildly unreasonable expectations for defensemen coming from fans of a team which has been spoiled by guys like Lidstrom and Konstantinov on their blue line and b) playing his last game of NHL hockey at 26.
Yawn.
Unexpected speed?
Unexpected by whom? Fischer was always among the fastest Red Wings. He just didn't use it.
Fischer was always among the biggest/strongest Wings, he just didn't use it as well as he should have.
He had a great slapper, fastest on the team in practice. He just didn't know how to unleash it in games.
That was the frustrating part about Fischer's development. Then again, Fischer, as long as it took him to start to put things together, really isn't much older than Kronwall. He learned the trade in the NHL, for the most part.
The biggest flaw in Jiri's game was his decision making.
I was never sure if it was fear of being benched that caused to tighten up and make the mistakes he was trying desperately to avoid, or if he was just slow to gain confidence and an understanding of the game at the NHL level.
ADD: Nobody expected him to become Lidstrom and Konstantinov.
People were aiming for a poor-man's Chris Pronger, though
Unexpected by whom? Fischer was always among the fastest Red Wings. He just didn't use it.
Fischer was always among the biggest/strongest Wings, he just didn't use it as well as he should have.
He had a great slapper, fastest on the team in practice. He just didn't know how to unleash it in games.
That was the frustrating part about Fischer's development. Then again, Fischer, as long as it took him to start to put things together, really isn't much older than Kronwall. He learned the trade in the NHL, for the most part.
The biggest flaw in Jiri's game was his decision making.
I was never sure if it was fear of being benched that caused to tighten up and make the mistakes he was trying desperately to avoid, or if he was just slow to gain confidence and an understanding of the game at the NHL level.
ADD: Nobody expected him to become Lidstrom and Konstantinov.
People were aiming for a poor-man's Chris Pronger, though
At least you backed away from your ludicrous 'he never developed' line. It's always nice to see you demonstrate a glimmer of lucidity now and then.
And 'poor man's Chris Pronger' isn't pretty high expectations? A guy who won a Hart and Norris in the same season? Okay.
People forget that Fischer was a late first round pick. He was a guy who at his top-end was going to be a staunch top pairing defensive dman. He was a half-season away from reaching that potential. He was never going to be an offensive dman.
Minimize what Jiri Fischer accomplished as a player as much as you want, I suppose. It was certainly an in-vogue thing for you to do while he was playing, so I can't see why you'd feel it was any less comfortable now that he's not.
"He was squeezing the stick," Wilson said of Carle. "We openly talked about him being mentally tired. Maybe he hit the wall. ... We anticipated this (could happen). He's never played this volume of games, and we don't think sitting him out is the way to fix it."
When I started this thread I really thought that some games in the minors (2-5) would have benifited Filppula. Now it seems like both he and Hudler are getting their game back.
I would like to see what either of them can do on a top line.
When I started this thread I really thought that some games in the minors (2-5) would have benifited Filppula. Now it seems like both he and Hudler are getting their game back.
I would like to see what either of them can do on a top line.
Why the quote on Carle? I think his situation is a little different from our guys Hudler, Filppula since they have at least one full year of pro behind them and in Huds case more. Carle was playing college hockey at this time last year. That being said I would love to have Carle here
Okay.
