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All rumors from November 8 involving Edmonton

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11-22-2013, 01:29 PM
  #551
Psuhockey
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The flyers could put a very aggressive package to acquire a good defenseman this offseason without really hurting the team. Something like the Schenn brothers plus one of Hagg or morin and even the 1st rounder. This draft is looking to be pretty weak. If it wasn't in philly, I could definitely see the flyers willing to move the pick. The flyers could even move Voracek instead of B. Schenn with Lecavalier able to play Right Wing and Laughton able to step into the 2nd center position.

I know a lot of fans, especially those on a prospect website, like the slow build but if Mason turns out it be the real deal, this team isn't that far away from being a cup contender.

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11-22-2013, 01:34 PM
  #552
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I don't disagree with making a move for a legit d man. But a contender woudnt have Laughton as a second line center as a rookie. Moving Voracek would be a mistake IMO. He's one of the few wingers we have that can skate well and protect the puck.

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11-22-2013, 01:41 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The flyers could put a very aggressive package to acquire a good defenseman this offseason without really hurting the team. Something like the Schenn brothers plus one of Hagg or morin and even the 1st rounder. This draft is looking to be pretty weak. If it wasn't in philly, I could definitely see the flyers willing to move the pick. The flyers could even move Voracek instead of B. Schenn with Lecavalier able to play Right Wing and Laughton able to step into the 2nd center position.

I know a lot of fans, especially those on a prospect website, like the slow build but if Mason turns out it be the real deal, this team isn't that far away from being a cup contender.
Problem is, the Flyers have gone down that road before, and it hasn't worked. Time to go the other route = patience.

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11-22-2013, 01:53 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by King Forsberg View Post
I don't disagree with making a move for a legit d man. But a contender woudnt have Laughton as a second line center as a rookie. Moving Voracek would be a mistake IMO. He's one of the few wingers we have that can skate well and protect the puck.
I like Voracek a lot and would much rather move Brayden Schenn. But you have to give to get and he is far from untouchable. I also think he and Giroux play a similar game as playmakers that doesn't ideal mesh together. Lecavalier is a much better finisher.

The flyers are going to be entering the prime years for Giroux, Mason, Simmonds, Coburn, Read and Voracek. It will also coincide with Lecavalier and hartnells declines. Now is the time to strike. Your right that Laughton as a 2nd line center isn't ideal but both Boston and the Ducks won with rookie centerman playing a big role.

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11-22-2013, 01:55 PM
  #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The flyers could put a very aggressive package to acquire a good defenseman this offseason without really hurting the team. Something like the Schenn brothers plus one of Hagg or morin and even the 1st rounder. This draft is looking to be pretty weak. If it wasn't in philly, I could definitely see the flyers willing to move the pick. The flyers could even move Voracek instead of B. Schenn with Lecavalier able to play Right Wing and Laughton able to step into the 2nd center position.

I know a lot of fans, especially those on a prospect website, like the slow build but if Mason turns out it be the real deal, this team isn't that far away from being a cup contender.

Since the draft is in Philly, that might make it a bigger possibility to make a big move
Keep in the mind the past two draft hosts made a big deal during the draft
2012 Pittsburgh-Staal to Carolina
2013 NJ- the acquisition of Cory Schneider

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11-22-2013, 02:01 PM
  #556
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Problem is, the Flyers have gone down that road before, and it hasn't worked. Time to go the other route = patience.
The flyers have gone down that road with old players in their mid to late 30's and past their prime and it hasn't worked. I am talking someone in there twenties. That is a big difference. If you believe in the flyers ability to draft, especially in the 1st round, and in some of the current prospects like Cousins, Laughton, Alt, and Gostibehere, then the flyers won't be hurt like the Adam Oates trade or Chris Pronger trade. The flyers had nothing in the system when they made those trades.

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11-22-2013, 02:10 PM
  #557
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Kimmo replacement (ie 1b) and a 1LW and this team could contend I reckon.

Though it depends on Couts, Schenns and Gus keeping up play they have had recently and Schenn and Couts developing.

If Schenn can become a 30-35 guy and swap with Hartnell at 1LW then that would help a lot.

But then getting a 1b is risky/costly and not guaranteed to be that final piece.

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11-22-2013, 02:24 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The flyers could put a very aggressive package to acquire a good defenseman this offseason without really hurting the team. Something like the Schenn brothers plus one of Hagg or morin and even the 1st rounder. This draft is looking to be pretty weak. If it wasn't in philly, I could definitely see the flyers willing to move the pick. The flyers could even move Voracek instead of B. Schenn with Lecavalier able to play Right Wing and Laughton able to step into the 2nd center position.

I know a lot of fans, especially those on a prospect website, like the slow build but if Mason turns out it be the real deal, this team isn't that far away from being a cup contender.
Are you really serious? or just being sarcastic and I am such a noob that I am missing it?

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11-22-2013, 02:47 PM
  #559
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Are you really serious? or just being sarcastic and I am such a noob that I am missing it?
I am serious. Hockey forwards primes are in their mid to late 20's. They typically start to steadily decline after. Right now that's Giroux, Simmonds, Read, and Voracek about to enter their prime years. Defensemen usually take about 4 years in the NHL to hit their strides so by the time guys like Gostibehere, Morin, and Hagg have a big impact on the defense corp, those forwards will probably be past their prime. Lecavalier and Hartnell are already on the decline.

If this is the real Mason emerging as a great goalie, which I think it is, then the Flyers are a couple of impact players away from cup contention IMO. Could the flyers get those players in UFA? Maybe if Girardi sneaks in or Vanek doesn't want to go to Minnesota. But that's an expensive and unlikely proposition. The status quo especially on defense might get the flyers into the playoffs, but I don't think into true cup contention. And as well as they have played lately besides Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Ottawa, Winnipeg and buffalo are not the cream of the crop in the NHL.

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11-28-2013, 10:18 AM
  #560
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Didn't feel like starting a whole new thread.

What could we honestly get for G. I really think if we get a top line and top pairing fwd and dman plus a first from a low end team we should at least consider taking it.

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11-28-2013, 10:29 AM
  #561
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Really, can we just stop about trading our captain. We put it on him like he's the reason we are struggling but maybe this team just isnt good. We lack skill up front, while we have good complimentary players we don't have any players who can even try to take the pressure off Giroux producing out of this world to win. This is the problem. Appleyard did the analysis before, every big named player has a partner with him who helps take the load off his shoulders. Who does G have? Voracek? Hartnell? HA! This team needs more elite skill and speed, people who create space for themselves. Voracek is just too inconsistent right now for that.

Giroux is the heart and soul of this team, but we are really asking him to do it all by himself. The team is just poorly constructed, and that is on the GM. Hextall needs to come in and get us some elite skill and speed

This organization is in love with him, his work ethic, the way he plays, and his dedication. Trading him would be a horrible idea, not only for now but the future of this organization.


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11-28-2013, 10:52 AM
  #562
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Hartnell and his "unique skillset" needs to get off his line or be traded. Voracek needs to be more motivated. Last year he was explosive on the ice...this year he is on Berube's crap list

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11-28-2013, 11:15 AM
  #563
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G really hasn't been the same since James Neal elbowed him and got suspended. Maybe is decline in play has something to do with that concussion. Am I correct in thinking that? He clearly doesn't have what he used to have. 5 on 5 he seems like a shell of himself. He used to be such a dynamic playmaker. For me, way too many of his points are coming on the PP over the lockout year and this year.

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11-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #564
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I wish you made a new thread so it could've been deleted.

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11-28-2013, 11:47 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Hartnell and his "unique skillset" needs to get off his line or be traded. Voracek needs to be more motivated. Last year he was explosive on the ice...this year he is on Berube's crap list
This, now trading him and getting any decent return will be next to impossible with his contract and NMC, but switch him to 2nd or 3rd line and put Downie or Read on top line or Vinny back to wing on top line. We CAN NOT have a guy scoring at a .35 ppg on the top line, he is killing his line mates.

First step should be pressbox for 1 or 2 games to send a message, but we all know that will never happen as he hits and will fight ( see Rosehill)

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11-28-2013, 11:52 AM
  #566
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Being patient with the young guys is one thing, and I'm all for it, but that shouldn't automatically make them untouchable.

The GM should always be looking for a way to improve the team. I wouldn't make any Pronger type trades either, where the return is a player on the back nine of his career, but I would do everything I could to find a young defenseman who could eventually lead the D. If that means trading Schenn or Voracek in a sort of "lateral move" talent wise, I'd do it in a second. This organization has proven to be pretty good at finding talented forwards; less so talented defensemen.

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11-28-2013, 12:23 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Being patient with the young guys is one thing, and I'm all for it, but that shouldn't automatically make them untouchable.

The GM should always be looking for a way to improve the team. I wouldn't make any Pronger type trades either, where the return is a player on the back nine of his career, but I would do everything I could to find a young defenseman who could eventually lead the D. If that means trading Schenn or Voracek in a sort of "lateral move" talent wise, I'd do it in a second. This organization has proven to be pretty good at finding talented forwards; less so talented defensemen.
I fully agree on that with the emphasis on the ability to actually lead.

This team needs a young #1 calibre defenseman in/or about to hit his prime who does not only have the skill but the mindset and leadership you win championships with.

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11-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #568
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Hartnell and his "unique skillset" needs to get off his line or be traded. Voracek needs to be more motivated. Last year he was explosive on the ice...this year he is on Berube's crap list
100% agree. Giroux needs at least one person to help, simple as that.

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11-28-2013, 02:18 PM
  #569
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G really hasn't been the same since James Neal elbowed him and got suspended. Maybe is decline in play has something to do with that concussion. Am I correct in thinking that? He clearly doesn't have what he used to have. 5 on 5 he seems like a shell of himself. He used to be such a dynamic playmaker. For me, way too many of his points are coming on the PP over the lockout year and this year.
Look at who he's playing with right now. Hartnell, who is pretty much useless at even strength and Voracek, who is doing nearly nothing right now and seems almost lazy at times. The difference between this year and 2011-2012 was that Hartnell was actually somewhat useful then and Jagr helped take some of the focus off Giroux. He was effective because he wasn't the only threat on the line like he is now.

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11-28-2013, 03:10 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
G really hasn't been the same since James Neal elbowed him and got suspended. Maybe is decline in play has something to do with that concussion. Am I correct in thinking that? He clearly doesn't have what he used to have. 5 on 5 he seems like a shell of himself. He used to be such a dynamic playmaker. For me, way too many of his points are coming on the PP over the lockout year and this year.
G was lethal on the PP last season, so the skills are still there. He doesn't have any space to operate like he did in 11-12. Not sure why that is. Maybe opponents dont respect the rest of his line-mates.

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11-28-2013, 05:35 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
G really hasn't been the same since James Neal elbowed him and got suspended. Maybe is decline in play has something to do with that concussion. Am I correct in thinking that? He clearly doesn't have what he used to have. 5 on 5 he seems like a shell of himself. He used to be such a dynamic playmaker. For me, way too many of his points are coming on the PP over the lockout year and this year.
The Neal hit was in game 3 of that series, he was still dominate after that in that series so it's not that.

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11-28-2013, 06:53 PM
  #572
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This, now trading him and getting any decent return will be next to impossible with his contract and NMC, but switch him to 2nd or 3rd line and put Downie or Read on top line or Vinny back to wing on top line. We CAN NOT have a guy scoring at a .35 ppg on the top line, he is killing his line mates.

First step should be pressbox for 1 or 2 games to send a message, but we all know that will never happen as he hits and will fight ( see Rosehill)
Put Harts on the 4th line, that would wake him up. I wouldn't mess with the 3rd Line:Read, Couts and Downie..its been solid and so has the 2nd line of Simmer, Vinny and Schenn. What I would do is bring up Raffl or McGinn with Voracek and Giroux and stick Harts down with Hall and Rinaldo. I love what Torts does with his players to wake them up, either they get benched or demoted down the lines with less ice time and that's what Hartnell needs. I know you guys are going to say "Raffl or McGinn" but I think any of these guys were put on the 1st line with G they would play their heart out. If you have any other suggestions on who to bring up would like to hear it.

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11-28-2013, 08:13 PM
  #573
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Put Harts on the 4th line, that would wake him up. I wouldn't mess with the 3rd Line:Read, Couts and Downie..its been solid and so has the 2nd line of Simmer, Vinny and Schenn. What I would do is bring up Raffl or McGinn with Voracek and Giroux and stick Harts down with Hall and Rinaldo. I love what Torts does with his players to wake them up, either they get benched or demoted down the lines with less ice time and that's what Hartnell needs. I know you guys are going to say "Raffl or McGinn" but I think any of these guys were put on the 1st line with G they would play their heart out. If you have any other suggestions on who to bring up would like to hear it.
Akeson

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11-28-2013, 08:21 PM
  #574
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Trading Giroux would be the worst move of Holmgren's career.

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11-28-2013, 09:06 PM
  #575
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Trading Giroux would be the worst move of Holmgren's career.
It could be but what if G continues this way for the rest of his career. Would you be happy paying him over 8 mill a year? I'm not saying to def trade him but if the return is good then you at least have to look at it. I think at this point it's obvious G is not the player he seemed to be scoring 90+ pts.

Really I'm just worried about having so much money on one guy that is underachieving both on offense and defense before that contract even kicks in. I really like G and want him to be dominant again but haven't seen that for a few years.

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