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Old
11-29-2013, 12:58 PM
  #26
macavoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ford View Post
Nowhere in my post this I say I would take Steen over Plekanec. I said I would like to see the Habs sign Steen

and (this second part has nothing to do with the first part)

Trade Plekanec for a good return, if Eller and Galchenyuk solidify themselves as our top 2 centers.

That's just my opinion.
If you sign Steen, you don't have room to keep Pleks (assuming we keep Eller, Patches, Galchenyuk, Gallagher).

Basically we have no room for Steen in our top 6. He is too expensive.

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11-29-2013, 01:06 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Ryan Callahan to replace Gionta.
Seriously doubt the Rangers will let their captain go like that. He's a fan favorite as well, if I'm not mistaken.

Personally, I'd love to add a Dan Girardi type of defenseman on our team, and resign Markov on top of it. That would give us quite possibly the best defense in the league. That would allow us to move Gorges on the 3rd pair, with Diaz or one of the upcoming young players if Diaz is let go. Imagine...

Subban - Markov
Emelin - Girardi
Gorges - Diaz/Tinordi/Beaulieu

That would be a dream come true.

I'd also really like Bergevin to go hard after Vanek, but I fear he'll get close to 8M per on a long term contract...

And of course, if Callahan does indeed reaches the open market, I'd go hard after him as well. A similar contract to what Gionta currently makes would be fine by me.

Steen would be an interesting target as well, but I wouldn't give him anything above 5M AAV on a 4/5 years contract. He's not going to be a consistent 40+ goals scorer, but he can still be a consistent two-way, 50+ points winger, in a similar fashion to Plekanec.

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Old
11-29-2013, 01:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I'd also really like Bergevin to go hard after Vanek, but I fear he'll get close to 8M per on a long term contract...
I don't get the lust for Vanek. He's a 25 goal scorer making $7m a year. That's too much and he will likely get just as much again. He's too one dimensional to pay $7m+ for. For $7m+ I want a franchise player that can do it all.

You can't just go after the best UFA's available, you have to be smart about it. Buffalo is a prime example. When Terry Pegula bought the team, he wanted to make a splash, well what a horrible splash that ended up being. Sometimes its better to pass and take nobody that make a bad signing.

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11-29-2013, 01:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Seriously doubt the Rangers will let their captain go like that. He's a fan favorite as well, if I'm not mistaken.

Personally, I'd love to add a Dan Girardi type of defenseman on our team, and resign Markov on top of it. That would give us quite possibly the best defense in the league. That would allow us to move Gorges on the 3rd pair, with Diaz or one of the upcoming young players if Diaz is let go. Imagine...

Subban - Markov
Emelin - Girardi
Gorges - Diaz/Tinordi/Beaulieu

That would be a dream come true.

I'd also really like Bergevin to go hard after Vanek, but I fear he'll get close to 8M per on a long term contract...

And of course, if Callahan does indeed reaches the open market, I'd go hard after him as well. A similar contract to what Gionta currently makes would be fine by me.

Steen would be an interesting target as well, but I wouldn't give him anything above 5M AAV on a 4/5 years contract. He's not going to be a consistent 40+ goals scorer, but he can still be a consistent two-way, 50+ points winger, in a similar fashion to Plekanec.
I'm who would love for us to upgrade on Gorges but our priority should be our gaping holes on the wings. I would give Vanek 8M. With 3.5M for DD and 4M for Briere I wonder if MB buys them out if he can't find any buyers, if it could be done.

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Old
11-29-2013, 01:35 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I don't get the lust for Vanek. He's a 25 goal scorer making $7m a year. That's too much and he will likely get just as much again. He's too one dimensional to pay $7m+ for. For $7m+ I want a franchise player that can do it all.

You can't just go after the best UFA's available, you have to be smart about it. Buffalo is a prime example. When Terry Pegula bought the team, he wanted to make a splash, well what a horrible splash that ended up being. Sometimes its better to pass and take nobody that make a bad signing.
2 times 40+ goals scorer, 4 times 30+ goals scorer AND on pace for 40+ goals last season... His career pace is 35 goals/68 points.

He's basically a 60-70+ points winger that can give you 30+ goals consistently. He's a more talented Max Pacioretty.

8M AAV would be a lot of money to spend, but you need to take into consideration the kind of cap we're playing with these days. We'll soon have a cap of 80M+. I'd probably pull the trigger for Vanek at 4/5 years @ 8M. It would drastically improve our team.

Just think about the fact that most people are fine paying Plekanec 5M, or that Gionta makes 5M AAV... You need to be willing to overpay a bit on the FA market.


Last edited by Lebowski: 11-29-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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Old
11-29-2013, 01:41 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I don't get the lust for Vanek. He's a 25 goal scorer making $7m a year. That's too much and he will likely get just as much again. He's too one dimensional to pay $7m+ for. For $7m+ I want a franchise player that can do it all.

You can't just go after the best UFA's available, you have to be smart about it. Buffalo is a prime example. When Terry Pegula bought the team, he wanted to make a splash, well what a horrible splash that ended up being. Sometimes its better to pass and take nobody that make a bad signing.
You're right Vanek is over paid but how many franchise players actually hit the open market? With Markov and Plekanecs having 3 more good years ahead of them, I would go all in now and pick up a scoring threat to roll with it.

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11-29-2013, 03:54 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
2 times 40+ goals scorer, 4 times 30+ goals scorer AND on pace for 40+ goals last season... His career pace is 35 goals/68 points.
The last time Vanek scored 30+ goals was so long ago that Danny Concussion Briere out scored him that year. Vanek's 30-40 goal seasons are history.

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Old
11-29-2013, 04:21 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
The last time Vanek scored 30+ goals was so long ago that Danny Concussion Briere out scored him that year. Vanek's 30-40 goal seasons are history.
Last year he had 0.52 average goal per game. That means 43 goals on a 82 games season... And it's not like he is 36 years old, at 29 he still has many good seasons in front of him.

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Old
11-29-2013, 04:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsProspectsExpert View Post
Last year he had 0.52 average goal per game. That means 43 goals on a 82 games season... And it's not like he is 36 years old, at 29 he still has many good seasons in front of him.
Do you honestly think Vanek will have a 40 goal season and you'd risk$7-8m?


I'd bet a lot of money that over the next 5 years he averages in the 25 goal range vs 30-40 goals. I don't think he will even average 30 goals a year for the next 5 years. He is struggling to score playing with Tavares.



edit: Vanek scored 8 goals in his last 28 games last year, which is a 25 goal a year pace.


Last edited by macavoy: 11-29-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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Old
11-29-2013, 04:37 PM
  #35
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We should trade Eller. He's terrible 8 games out of 10.

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11-29-2013, 04:40 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Do you honestly think Vanek will have a 40 goal season and you'd risk$7-8m?


I'd bet a lot of money that over the next 5 years he averages in the 25 goal range vs 30-40 goals. I don't think he will even average 30 goals a year for the next 5 years. He is struggling to score playing with Tavares.



edit: Vanek scored 8 goals in his last 28 games last year, which is a 25 goal a year pace.
No, I don't think that he is worth that much money. But I pretty sure that he will get some more seasons of around 35 goals.

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Old
11-29-2013, 07:44 PM
  #37
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Forget Vanek... he's going to Minnesota and he's going to want to make the same amount of money he's making right now. The Wilds will also have the money for him, since Heatly will also be a UFA.

To replace Gionta, you want someone that is big (for once) (everyone is big compared to Gionta):

Jagr - 20+ goals / 6"03
Vrbata - 20+ goals / 6"01
Setoguchi - 15+ goals / 6"00
Kulemin - 15+ goals / 6"01

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11-29-2013, 08:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
Forget Vanek... he's going to Minnesota and he's going to want to make the same amount of money he's making right now. The Wilds will also have the money for him, since Heatly will also be a UFA.

To replace Gionta, you want someone that is big (for once) (everyone is big compared to Gionta):

Jagr - 20+ goals / 6"03
Vrbata - 20+ goals / 6"01
Setoguchi - 15+ goals / 6"00
Kulemin - 15+ goals / 6"01
1. Jagr is too old
2. Vrbata; nothing against him, but he would ask a lot of $$$.
3. Setoguchi - I wouldn't touch this trash with a 30ft pole.
4. Kulemin is more of a defensive forward. Wouldn't replace Gionta's goal scoring abilities of when we got him.

If there's one guy I want in this list, it is Radim Vrbata. Otherwise, I think we should simply give this spot to Michael Bournival.

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Old
11-29-2013, 08:26 PM
  #39
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Jagr is still playing good. A 1 season deal around 2.5 - 3M wouldn't hurt the Habs at all. Vrbata is the one I'd target as well. Kulemin is a good 2 way forward, which Plekanec is as well.

Vrbata should most likely get something around 4.25M for 3-5 years. The thing is that he's already 32. Kulemin should get something aroud 3.5M for a couple of years as well. He's only 27, so that's a plus.

X - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Pacioretty - Eller - X
Bournival - Plekanec - Jagr / Vrbata / Kulemin
Moen - Prust - White

PS: I want Brian Boyle !

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Old
11-29-2013, 09:20 PM
  #40
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I think it's funny people want to sign Kulemin when he's pretty much a copy of Bourque. A big, inconsistent winger that isn't overly physical but that can bring decent two-way play. He's a third liner at best.

Might as well just bring back Gionta on a short term contract for half the money he makes at the moment and call it a day. He's the captain after all.

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Old
11-29-2013, 10:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by terreur View Post
I just can't imagine what Steen will be offered if he hits the UFA market... What's even worst, is that we've seen some pretty average players get incrdible offers based on 1 season... But Steen is the kind of player that you "could" offer a bit more because of all he brings to the table. He's smart, has a huge hockey IQ, his really responsible and has been playing some really good hockey for a lot of years. We all agree that he is overachiving this year, but he would be a real good fit with plekanec.... But he will be offred a 6-7 millions a year deal for a real long time and he's not worth that at all!
Alex Steen is 29, this will be his best year. The decline starts at 30. Any team that signs him more than 3 years is crazy.

FA sucks. The FA players are too old now. Forget Steen. I'd throw my computer out the window if we gave him more than 3 years.

Which you guys would probably like.

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11-29-2013, 10:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Pleks >>> Steen ainec. I honestly think we should move Pleks to the wing next year or the year after if both Eller and Galchenyuk progress.

You would have to be insane to want Steen over Pleks.

Massive disagreement.
I have been saying for a while that a Pleks trade for a young tough winger with talent should be at least explored at deadline. Pleks decline will start next year, but he will be very valuable to a contender at deadline, and still OK for another 2 years.

Except for the core, Pleks is our most valuable deadline trade chip by far.

It all hinges on Eller's play. If Habs feel by deadline that Eller can at least fill Pleks D role, a Pleks trade should be looked at. Eller would also then possibly benefit from the new winger.

Respectfully, you could not be more wrong. If Eller is judged by Habs as ready to replace Pleks, Pleks has to be traded at deadline.

And Steen has nothing to do with this. Would not touch the guy with a 50 foot pole. He will be in decline every year of his contract. Good luck to whoever takes him.

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11-29-2013, 10:53 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I don't get the lust for Vanek. He's a 25 goal scorer making $7m a year. That's too much and he will likely get just as much again. He's too one dimensional to pay $7m+ for. For $7m+ I want a franchise player that can do it all.

You can't just go after the best UFA's available, you have to be smart about it. Buffalo is a prime example. When Terry Pegula bought the team, he wanted to make a splash, well what a horrible splash that ended up being. Sometimes its better to pass and take nobody that make a bad signing.
And again: Vanek is 29. Every year of his next contract he will be in decline.

At the risk of becoming a bore, when will you guys wake up and realize that except for short term deals for guys like Jagr or Recchi, FA sucks and is a death trap? 90% of FA players have peaked, and will never play that well again, except for perhaps one more year. See Erik Cole.

Bergy has to TRADE for youth. Forget FA. When Habs are contending and ready to win the cup, then you go for the rental 32-37 year old at deadline. And you don't sign the guy for 5 years.

Christ, look at Recchi. Bruins have understood this for years. He was a short term deal while they contended. And he was a backup, not expected to provide primary scoring.

And don't bring up Hossa. The guy is a freak, Chicago got incredibly lucky with him. Very few offensive forwards do well after 30 any more.

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11-29-2013, 11:01 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
The last time Vanek scored 30+ goals was so long ago that Danny Concussion Briere out scored him that year. Vanek's 30-40 goal seasons are history.
Thank you. Vanek for 5-7 years. Jeezus...


Last edited by bsl: 11-29-2013 at 11:07 PM.
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Old
11-29-2013, 11:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HabsProspectsExpert View Post
Last year he had 0.52 average goal per game. That means 43 goals on a 82 games season... And it's not like he is 36 years old, at 29 he still has many good seasons in front of him.
NO, he does not. He will decline every year from now on. For scoring forwards, The NHL is primarily under 30 years old now, with rare exceptions. AAARGH. How will it take for fans to realize this.?

Vanek is TOO OLD.

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11-30-2013, 10:47 AM
  #46
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Gotta be realistic here. DD and Briere will still be here. MB just needs to go out there and sign a veteran winger to replace Gionta.

Bournival Pleks ???
Pacioretty DD Briere
Eller Galchenyuk Gallagher
Prust White Moen

Markov Subban
Gorges Emelin
Tinordi/Beaulieu Diaz

Not much will change next year.

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11-30-2013, 10:54 AM
  #47
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Gotta be realistic here. DD and Briere will still be here. MB just needs to go out there and sign a veteran winger to replace Gionta.

Bournival Pleks ???
Pacioretty DD Briere
Eller Galchenyuk Gallagher
Prust White Moen

Markov Subban
Gorges Emelin
Tinordi/Beaulieu Diaz

Not much will change next year.
Bourque is still under contract next year.

I'd take Kostitsyn back over a lot of the players people are mentioning in this thread. Chemistry with Pleks (and Eller) is already there and he will be good for the same amount of points Gio is putting up at this point.
I like that Gio goes to the net and is good defensively, but we need someone who can shoot the god damn puck.

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11-30-2013, 01:14 PM
  #48
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I'd like to see a trade for Moulson this season and a Callahan signing in the offseason.

Edit: Surprised at the amount of mention Steen gets in the thread.

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Old
11-30-2013, 02:36 PM
  #49
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We should trade Eller. He's terrible 8 games out of 10.

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Old
11-30-2013, 03:43 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Bourque is still under contract next year.

I'd take Kostitsyn back over a lot of the players people are mentioning in this thread. Chemistry with Pleks (and Eller) is already there and he will be good for the same amount of points Gio is putting up at this point.
I like that Gio goes to the net and is good defensively, but we need someone who can shoot the god damn puck.
Oops. My bad. I forgot about Bourque. But yeah, he'll be here too. Like I said, not much will change.

I'd also like Kositsyn back too. He wont be expensive. He also has chemistry with Moen.

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