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Old
11-29-2013, 03:58 PM
  #651
DM23BK30
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The Rangers have given us something to look forward to since the 2005 lockout. It was nice to see more winning than losing, a culture change and relatively thrift thanks to the salary cap.

1998-2004 was just horrendous on so many levels. Thanks to Lundqvist and the cap, the team became respectable.

But it's time for a radical shift in strategy. It took 7 years of consecutive misery and losing to trigger a fire sale like in 2004. I dont see one happening after 8 seasons of playoffs without a Cup.

They tried the reload/rebuiold and it worked to a certain extent. But now where seeing how much we fans and the front office overrated the assets in the organization (outside of Henrik and McDonagh)

Fans have to ask themselves -- do they want a go-for-broke roster swap or a fire sale?

Personally, I hope they stay mediocre long enough to maybe three or four simple moves can make them contender again.

What made the Devils elite? Certainly not just coaching. They went through a coach a year until Lemaire got there but the seeds were planted for a semi-dynasty before he got there.

What made the Devils elite were these reasons:

1) "Trading" Shanahan for Stevens - high price to pay but it was a no-lose situation.
2) Trading Kurvers to the Leafs for a 1st rounder that became Niedermayer -- I think the Gomez/McDonagh trade is akin.
3) Drafting Broduer 20th overall in 1990
4) Drafting Billy Guerin 5th overall, then flipping him for Arnott
5) Trading away youth for the right kind of veterans

They need tough guys with size and skill. Theyre out there. The issue is whether sather is willing to part with guys like Staal and Girardi and Callahan to get them.

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11-29-2013, 04:06 PM
  #652
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David Backes
Dustin Brown
Milan Lucic
Corey Perry
Andrew Ladd
Ryan Kesler
Blake Wheeler
Evander Kane
Chris Stewart
Wayne Simmonds
Martin hanzal


Just give this team two of those guys, and make the move no matter the cost minus McDonagh, Lundqvist, Nash and Stepan.

Obviosuly its fantasy, but the point is that they need these types of players. Kreider and Miller could develop into those types of players, but in my opinion I'd rather get a polished product.

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11-29-2013, 04:26 PM
  #653
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It's a reach to say that someone who often drops down to block shots isn't tough but there is also a difference between taking and handing out punishment. Rangers are more than willing to take punishment--they just don't hand out enough.

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11-29-2013, 05:16 PM
  #654
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Team toughness? This team has none. With the exception of Dorsett, who unfortunately is 190 pounds.

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11-29-2013, 05:50 PM
  #655
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Team toughness? This team has none. With the exception of Dorsett, who unfortunately is 190 pounds.
Team toughness is a myth.. Ask bleed ranger blue or whatever his name is....we r as tough as the Bruins or the Leafs and watching your teammate getting his ass handed to him doesn't demoralize you.

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11-29-2013, 06:01 PM
  #656
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Team toughness is a myth.. Ask bleed ranger blue or whatever his name is....we r as tough as the Bruins or the Leafs and watching your teammate getting his ass handed to him doesn't demoralize you.
As a fan I was demoralized seeing NYR get pushed and shoved around by the big B's. Especially after the whistle Boston can do whatever they want, for some reason they never get called for anything after the whistle it seems. I think Falk helped a little but he was the only thing on the Rangers that was somewhat physical. As a player seeing your team get pushed around and in Boyle's case getting his *** handed to him and not being able to do anything about it must be demoralizing for a team. I dont know how it couldn't be.

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11-29-2013, 06:07 PM
  #657
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Stu Bickel would be an upgrade today over Pyatt in a game like today..Let him play the wing and challenge Lucic 3 times and get him off the ice..I love Stu and supposedly hes playing great in Hartford and hasn't lost a fight this year...We need someone with a junkyard dog mentality who loves the dirty work..People are quick to forget that with Stu playing most of the year we almost won the Pres trophy 2 years ago...

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11-29-2013, 06:09 PM
  #658
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As a fan I was demoralized seeing NYR get pushed and shoved around by the big B's. Especially after the whistle Boston can do whatever they want, for some reason they never get called for anything after the whistle it seems. I think Falk helped a little but he was the only thing on the Rangers that was somewhat physical. As a player seeing your team get pushed around and in Boyle's case getting his *** handed to him and not being able to do anything about it must be demoralizing for a team. I dont know how it couldn't be.
Of course it is....when you have a guy slamming you into the boards and that guy outweighs you by 25 pounds and you know he can beat the **** out of you...you are gonna let of the gas a bit. If you watched the game the Bruins focused on hitting Nash and McDonagh every chance they got and other guys like Stepan and Zucc are invisible....it's not a coincidence.

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11-29-2013, 06:11 PM
  #659
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I remember back in the day we had a euro named Miko Leinnanen sp? and after an ass kicking in the old Spectrum he had a famous quote that me and my friends would laugh about for years..After the game on live TV he said....No more Philadelphia in his accent...If people don't think guys get intimidated even at this level you are mistaken

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11-29-2013, 06:19 PM
  #660
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I'd love Simmonds on this team

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11-29-2013, 09:32 PM
  #661
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Guys get intimidated when there is fear of pain around the corner. It's human. Happens in beer league games, happens in the pros. All those Sens teams that were contenders in the late 90s and 2000s had playoff flop after another because of softer players in the line up not stepping up and playing passive.

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11-29-2013, 10:17 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
I remember back in the day we had a euro named Miko Leinnanen sp? and after an ass kicking in the old Spectrum he had a famous quote that me and my friends would laugh about for years..After the game on live TV he said....No more Philadelphia in his accent...If people don't think guys get intimidated even at this level you are mistaken
The Flyers had some really tough and nasty teams.

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Guys get intimidated when there is fear of pain around the corner. It's human. Happens in beer league games, happens in the pros. All those Sens teams that were contenders in the late 90s and 2000s had playoff flop after another because of softer players in the line up not stepping up and playing passive.
Blocking shots is one kind of tough--being willing to get beat up is another and beating up someone else is again another. These days there are fewer of those that can beat up others who can actually play the game well. Rangers roster has no one like that. I'm not a masochist--better to have someone who can really deliver punishment than always take it. They have Dorsett who falls in the category of those willing to get beat up. Our GM in his playing days had a lot in common with Derek. He was a gutsy little ****er.

I don't expect us to do well against a team like the Bruins. If we end up playing them again in the playoffs I think we'll be lucky to win one game--unless they have numerous injuries. I think the Rangers are going to have to toughen up if they expect to go further than they did last year. It's one issue. A big shot from the point on the pwp is another. We need one of our top 3 centers to take over the No. 1 center job and play consistently better. Stepan should be the one but he's not playing all that great. Neither is Lundqvist. The team still seems to me very dysfunctional--very fragile.

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11-30-2013, 07:19 AM
  #663
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The Bruins are just a better team -- it has little to do with toughness.
Not exactly correct. The B's are willing to go at it in the dirty areas of the ice. The Rangers are not. The Bruins are willing to go to the front of the net and to move people away from the front of the net. The Rangers are not. The Bruins are willing to engage a player. The Rangers mostly are not. The Bruins defensemen do not play with their sticks in the air poking. The Rangers defensemen do.

In short, the Bruins are willing to get their nose dirty. The Rangers are not. Which is a real shame because not all that long ago, they set an example for the entire league on how to do just that. They have gone from being one of the hardest teams to play against to being one of the easiest.

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Old
11-30-2013, 07:20 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Team toughness is a myth.
Team tough is what they were under Torts.

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11-30-2013, 07:24 AM
  #665
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Not exactly correct. The B's are willing to go at it in the dirty areas of the ice. The Rangers are not. The Bruins are willing to go to the front of the net and to move people away from the front of the net. The Rangers are not. The Bruins are willing to engage a player. The Rangers mostly are not. The Bruins defensemen do not play with their sticks in the air poking. The Rangers defensemen do.

In short, the Bruins are willing to get their nose dirty. The Rangers are not. Which is a real shame because not all that long ago, they set an example for the entire league on how to do just that. They have gone from being one of the hardest teams to play against to being one of the easiest.
This is something I can get on board with over the mindless drivel about fighting. This is important stuff, and I think you're spot on in this team losing the willingness to get dirty and do the things necessary to win.

....thanks to our esteemed GM, we are a skill and speed team now, without skill and speed

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11-30-2013, 07:37 AM
  #666
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This is something I can get on board with over the mindless drivel about fighting.
It is not fighting for fighting sake. Being willing to engage and not willing to take a step back can lead to some dropping of gloves but that is an evolution of playing and being willing to get your nose dirty. That is what the Rangers were about under Tortarella. not so much right now. The defense is as willing to engage now as they were when Muckler was the coach.

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11-30-2013, 07:40 AM
  #667
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....thanks to our esteemed GM, we are a skill and speed team now, without skill and speed
Our esteemed GM has forgotten that even his historic Oiler teams were not strictly skill and speed. But then managing a team in the here and now, has never been his strong suit. Jackass is a sad excuse for an executive who has been trying to recreate teams that resemble those that had gentlemen by the names of Gretzky and Messier, among others. Predictably, it has not worked. But he just keeps plugging away.

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11-30-2013, 07:56 AM
  #668
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Not exactly correct. The B's are willing to go at it in the dirty areas of the ice. The Rangers are not. The Bruins are willing to go to the front of the net and to move people away from the front of the net. The Rangers are not. The Bruins are willing to engage a player. The Rangers mostly are not. The Bruins defensemen do not play with their sticks in the air poking. The Rangers defensemen do.

In short, the Bruins are willing to get their nose dirty. The Rangers are not. Which is a real shame because not all that long ago, they set an example for the entire league on how to do just that. They have gone from being one of the hardest teams to play against to being one of the easiest.
The reality is sometimes you will have to throw down when you play like the Bruins do. Losing Prust and Dubinsky hurt the Rangers a lot. They would always go to the dirty areas--do the dirty jobs. Prust was obviously better at defending himself and/or his teammates than Dubinsky but Dubi was always willing.

Again though the point needs to be made--Peter Chiarelli has put together a fine team. Zdeno Chara is a top notch d-man who might not fight very often but fights very well. Milan Lucic is a bull in the china shop power forward who can set up in front of the net, score some goals--make some plays and he fights very well. Adam McQuaid is a legit NHL defenseman and he fights very well. Gregory Campbell is an excellent penalty killing 4th line center--not old yet--who contributes some offense and is more than willing to fight anyone anytime even if he's not that good at it. Shawn Thornton is the real resident tough guy but even he is a respectable player for a bottom line left wing. The Bruins have the physical part of the game covered and it accentuates other aspects of that team's overall play. Guys like Krejci, Bergeron and Mr. Agitator Brad Marchand know there are players who have their backs. The above mentioned are not one dimensional Colton Orr's, John Scott's or Brian McGrattan's. They can all play. Apart from Dylan McIlrath on the farm the Rangers really don't have anyone like that--the next closest would be Stu Bickel, Arron Asham, Brandon Mashinter and Micheal Haley--guys who are all decent AHL players.

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11-30-2013, 10:07 AM
  #669
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The reality is sometimes you will have to throw down when you play like the Bruins do. Losing Prust and Dubinsky hurt the Rangers a lot. They would always go to the dirty areas--do the dirty jobs. Prust was obviously better at defending himself and/or his teammates than Dubinsky but Dubi was always willing.
I do not disagree at all. It is a part of what was lost and has yet to be replaced. It took for so long for the entire locker room to be willing to throw down for each other. And then was ripped apart and now is a rudderless ship again. Sather greatly underestimated what loosing Dubinsky and Prust would do. Or his arrogance, as they are not pure skill players, never even allowed for him to see it.
Quote:
They can all play. Apart from Dylan McIlrath on the farm the Rangers really don't have anyone like that--the next closest would be Stu Bickel, Arron Asham, Brandon Mashinter and Micheal Haley--guys who are all decent AHL players.
As has been said for a long, long time. As much is it is mind boggling how under Sather that the team has not been able to develop a top-6 forward, equally as mind boggling is how the team has failed to develop a 3rd liner like you describe that the Bruins have in spades. The reality is that as opposed to looking to have the bottom-2 lines filled with scoring potential, it would have helped if they were addressed not with underachieving failures like Pouilliot, but with foot soldiers. But again, as the foot soldiers are not pure skill players, Jackass looks down on them.

At this point, I would be more than willing to have Haley skate on the 4th line as opposed to Pouilliot or Pyatt. For that matter, Asham as well. I am all for benching the underachieving P's and giving Haley a true shot and letting Asham play as well. They surely would not float through a game the way that the others do.

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11-30-2013, 03:24 PM
  #670
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Can wait for someone on the Rangers to get seriously hurt....

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11-30-2013, 03:48 PM
  #671
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Come on bro you know the mentality here...pay them back with a lethal PP! its freaking sickening




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Can wait for someone on the Rangers to get seriously hurt....

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11-30-2013, 03:50 PM
  #672
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get colton orr!!!!!!! make a trade or give up the cash, no way you go into PS play with this line up

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11-30-2013, 03:57 PM
  #673
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Come on bro you know the mentality here...pay them back with a lethal PP! its freaking sickening
You guys are clearly lacking any intelligence. Red Wings are the only model to follow, brah.

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11-30-2013, 03:57 PM
  #674
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For Boyle's sake call Mash or McIlrath up.

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11-30-2013, 06:21 PM
  #675
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Can wait for someone on the Rangers to get seriously hurt....


Huh?

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