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Jokerit Helsinki 2014/2015 season talk

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Old
11-28-2013, 01:21 PM
  #126
Jussi
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Originally Posted by BalticWarrior View Post
Jussi,honest question- will you follow Jokerit even in KHL?I mean i know your anti-KHL, so the question is,will you?
I've said it already, no. I'm done after this season and not the only one to do so.

Edit: for the record, I'm not anti KHL, I just don't agree with the way it's run. I think it should be a league for Russian teams(give or take some former Soviet countries teams), have a much lower salary cap that insures parity and they should stop kissing SKA's ass.


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11-28-2013, 01:24 PM
  #127
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so you are not true fan of Jokerit. True fans always support their club....

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Old
11-28-2013, 01:47 PM
  #128
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You are in no place to decide who is a true fan of a foreign club. The views expressed by myself and many others (at e.g. jatkoaika.com and jokerifanit.net) is that Jokerit should not be playing in another country's league but rather stay in a Finnish one. They/We feel Harkimo committed this for purely selfish financial reasons (which he's admitted) and not for the good of the club. A large part of the Eteläpääty fan section are mostly upset at that they will no longer be able to travel to roadgames with a big group and meet fans of other teams because in HKL that will not be possible due to travel, time and financial issues. They've shown it this season already by returning their season tickets and some not returning even after Harkimo apologized. Simply, it's not their/our Jokerit anymore after this season.

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11-28-2013, 01:55 PM
  #129
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there are true fans


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11-28-2013, 03:14 PM
  #130
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No offence Jussi but I think that your opinions are backward and outdated.

European National hockey leagues have proven inadequate in making hockey anything but a marginal sport in most of the old continent. National leagues are with us for almost a century and in that timespan they didn't and couldn't popularise hockey enough to be financially and structurally sustainable as a competition to its NA counterpart.

When the Soviet Union collapsed no one was stopping Sweden, Finland or Switzerland to try to bid for best Soviet players and talent. They couldn't do it because they were too weak to do it like they are now. Forever stucked in their boxes. No one was stopping to make some kind of European hockey league in 1960's with most western countries involved, but noone had that vision.

True and hard fact is that no league in Europe had a vision to be something more than a rat in the cage.
Hockey in Europe is a marginal sport at best far behind basketball or handball. With your vision of Natonal leagues it will stay that forever.


Last edited by FreshFruit: 11-28-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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11-28-2013, 03:54 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
No offence Jussi but I think that your opinions are backward and outdated.

European National hockey leagues have proven inadequate in making hockey anything but a marginal sport in most of the old continent. National leagues are with us for almost a century and in that timespan they didn't and couldn't popularise hockey enough to be financially and structurally sustainable as a competition to its NA counterpart.

When the Soviet Union collapsed no one was stopping Sweden, Finland or Switzerland to try to bid for best Soviet players and talent. They couldn't do it because they were too weak to do it like they are now. Forever stucked in their boxes. No one was stopping to make some kind of European hockey league in 1960's with most western countries involved, but noone had that vision.

True and hard fact is that no league in Europe had a vision to be something more than a rat in the cage.
Hockey in Europe is a marginal sport at best far behind basketball or handball. With your vision of Natonal leagues it will stay that forever.
I guess a lot of fans just used to see their national leagues as a development ones for NHL. Where their true interests lie.

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Old
11-28-2013, 05:27 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
No offence Jussi but I think that your opinions are backward and outdated.

European National hockey leagues have proven inadequate in making hockey anything but a marginal sport in most of the old continent. National leagues are with us for almost a century and in that timespan they didn't and couldn't popularise hockey enough to be financially and structurally sustainable as a competition to its NA counterpart.

When the Soviet Union collapsed no one was stopping Sweden, Finland or Switzerland to try to bid for best Soviet players and talent. They couldn't do it because they were too weak to do it like they are now. Forever stucked in their boxes. No one was stopping to make some kind of European hockey league in 1960's with most western countries involved, but noone had that vision.

True and hard fact is that no league in Europe had a vision to be something more than a rat in the cage.
Hockey in Europe is a marginal sport at best far behind basketball or handball. With your vision of Natonal leagues it will stay that forever.
Finnish league is by far the most popular league in the country and hockey the number one sport. There's limits to how much bigger the sport can become in a country of 5 million.

No one was stopping? Except that hockey was even smaller and players were mostly part timers. Hell, there weren't even proper pro's in football at the time compared to what they are now. You're absolutely out to lunch with this kind of thought process.

Hockey will always be behind football, basketball and handball in Europe. Period.

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Old
11-28-2013, 05:29 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
I guess a lot of fans just used to see their national leagues as a development ones for NHL. Where their true interests lie.
I've said it numerous times, Finns and Swedes take pride in seeing their player make it to the NHL and become stars. We recognize the level and ceiling of our domestic leagues. It's about time you start respecting that as well.

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11-28-2013, 05:58 PM
  #134
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Finnish league is by far the most popular league in the country and hockey the number one sport. There's limits to how much bigger the sport can become in a country of 5 million.

No one was stopping? Except that hockey was even smaller and players were mostly part timers. Hell, there weren't even proper pro's in football at the time compared to what they are now. You're absolutely out to lunch with this kind of thought process.

Hockey will always be behind football, basketball and handball in Europe. Period.
There are limits for growth in a 5 million people country but I can't buy that that same limits apply for an entire continent.

Finnish federation done their job with Finland and hit its roof, but question still remains, what now?
For every small country like Finland, Sweden or Czech Republic comes the big dog as France, Italy or Great Britain. With this National league system we will never see these markets develop enough to move hockey away of its marginal origin.

I don't believe that hockey can't survive and flourish in France or Italy. It can't in this outdated National system, but with KHL and its glamour, media exposure and stars it can be done.

Before you reply with counter argument what glamour and stars can KHL bring to a country that doesn't know for hockey I must add that everything of that is bought through media and TV exposure, everything.

I didn't start watching soccer because it was great, cool and awesome, I watched it because it was the MAIN sport presented on TV. You turn on the channel, boom soccer, you wake up, boom soccer, turn on the news and there's Zidane, Van Basten, Muller...

With KHL and better media exposure of hockey young French or Italian boy will "wake up with hockey and go to sleep with soccer", he will be presented with a chance of a choice. Yes 90% will still choose soccer but that 10% that will stay and ask them selfs what's this ice skating sport will be a success for entire hockey.

It's all about money and media exposure. Currently in Europe only KHL has it all.

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Old
11-28-2013, 06:13 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
There are limits for growth in a 5 million people country but I can't buy that that same limits apply for an entire continent.

Finnish federation done their job with Finland and hit its roof, but question still remains, what now?
For every small country like Finland, Sweden or Czech Republic comes the big dog as France, Italy or Great Britain. With this National league system we will never see these markets develop enough to move hockey away of its marginal origin.

I don't believe that hockey can't survive and flourish in France or Italy. It can't in this outdated National system, but with KHL and its glamour, media exposure and stars it can be done.

Before you reply with counter argument what glamour and stars can KHL bring to a country that doesn't know for hockey I must add that everything of that is bought through media and TV exposure, everything.

I didn't start watching soccer because it was great, cool and awesome, I watched it because it was the MAIN sport presented on TV. You turn on the channel, boom soccer, you wake up, boom soccer, turn on the news and there's Zidane, Van Basten, Muller...

With KHL and better media exposure of hockey young French or Italian boy will "wake up with hockey and go to sleep with soccer", he will be presented with a chance of a choice. Yes 90% will still choose soccer but that 10% that will stay and ask them selfs what's this ice skating sport will be a success for entire hockey.

It's all about money and media exposure. Currently in Europe only KHL has it all.
Wow, you've really drank the KHL kool aid.

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Old
11-28-2013, 06:29 PM
  #136
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Wow, you've really drank the KHL kool aid.
If its on TV, it's true.
Modern marketing doesn't lie.


Last edited by FreshFruit: 11-28-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old
11-28-2013, 06:41 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
If it's on TV, it's true.
Modern marketing doesn't lie.
Depends on the channel. Simply putting it on tv doesn't mean jack **** if there's no viewers. Sad fact is that only pay tv channels can afford to buy anything these days and that limits the viewership quite a lot. Speaking of Finland but as soon as SM-Liiga went to pay-tv only, the average consumer's interest has declined on the product. Add to networks relying heavily on pay-tv sports reporting major losses and one can see why the sport can't grow. It is pure delusion to think hockey can succeed on pay-tv in Europe.

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11-28-2013, 07:01 PM
  #138
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Depends on the channel. Simply putting it on tv doesn't mean jack **** if there's no viewers. Sad fact is that only pay tv channels can afford to buy anything these days and that limits the viewership quite a lot. Speaking of Finland but as soon as SM-Liiga went to pay-tv only, the average consumer's interest has declined on the product. Add to networks relying heavily on pay-tv sports reporting major losses and one can see why the sport can't grow. It is pure delusion to think hockey can succeed on pay-tv in Europe.
I agree than pay-tv channel that emitters exclusively on let's say France has a less chance to gain critical fambase for a hockey project.

TV deal with Europsort could be a step in the right way. Ofc, in the beginning such a deal shouldn't be too financially benefitial for the league but its main purpose would be education of potential fanbase that hockey actually exists. During that timeframe KHL should analize movements on the market and increase/decrease of viewership in interested areas. That's relatively simplified and low risk strategy but if the market shows some signs of life than some real job can begun.

But I don't see that move very soon, at least not untill low risk hockey markets like Switzerland or Germany are done with their expansion team.

*Low risk like already existing teams with stable fanbase, infrastructure and to some degree sustainable financial security.

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Old
11-28-2013, 07:18 PM
  #139
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I agree than pay-tv channel that emitters exclusively on let's say France has a less chance to gain critical fambase for a hockey project.

TV deal with Eurosport could be a step in the right way. Ofc, in the beginning such a deal shouldn't be too financially benefitial for the league but its main purpose would be education of potential fanbase that hockey actually exists. During that timeframe KHL should analize movements on the market and increase/decrease of viewership in interested areas. That's relatively simplified and low risk strategy but if the market shows some signs of life than some real job can begun.

But I don't see that move very soon, at least not untill low risk hockey markets like Switzerland or Germany are done with their expansion team.

*Low risk like already existing teams with stable fanbase, infrastructure and to some degree sustainable financial security.
Eurosport is a joke these days (hearing from those who have it, it stopped being on free cable here years ago). I can't see them willing to pay for anything that isn't guaranteed to draw ratings/ad money.

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11-29-2013, 02:01 AM
  #140
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You are in no place to decide who is a true fan of a foreign club. The views expressed by myself and many others (at e.g. jatkoaika.com and jokerifanit.net) is that Jokerit should not be playing in another country's league but rather stay in a Finnish one. They/We feel Harkimo committed this for purely selfish financial reasons (which he's admitted) and not for the good of the club. A large part of the Eteläpääty fan section are mostly upset at that they will no longer be able to travel to roadgames with a big group and meet fans of other teams because in HKL that will not be possible due to travel, time and financial issues. They've shown it this season already by returning their season tickets and some not returning even after Harkimo apologized. Simply, it's not their/our Jokerit anymore after this season.
You are still minority. You always keep talking about "Eteläpääty" fan section as they are the only fans out there. Some go, some stay, some new ones will join. Jokerit train will still go on. But I understand your side too, not just all the negative attitude all the time.

Jokerit has been my club since the 80's and as long as the club stays in Helsinki and logo and name stays, I'm a fan even if they would play in North Korea Hockey League.

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11-29-2013, 04:39 AM
  #141
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Finnpin, I agree with you.

You know what SKA did with its "Eteläpääty fan section"? These guys got ban to SKA matches and new fan sector was established. What is the result? A few fans go but many fans come (especially family with kids). This can happen with Jokerit fans... nobody will care about them, they are minority (how many? 100 fans?)

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11-29-2013, 05:52 AM
  #142
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Vorky, Eteläpääty isn't any "hooligan" section or anything like that....it's official Jokerit fan group... They will stay as it is (IMO) but not as strong as before and time will tell can they grow. And with minority I ment just Jokerit fans that stop being a fan next year.

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11-29-2013, 08:12 AM
  #143
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You are still minority. You always keep talking about "Eteläpääty" fan section as they are the only fans out there. Some go, some stay, some new ones will join. Jokerit train will still go on. But I understand your side too, not just all the negative attitude all the time.

Jokerit has been my club since the 80's and as long as the club stays in Helsinki and logo and name stays, I'm a fan even if they would play in North Korea Hockey League.
Eteläpääty is the section responsible for the atmosphere in Jokerit games, if they go or get "neutered", Hartwall goes back to being "a church". It was evident for anyone early in the season.

In case you haven't noticed at jatkoaika, there's people who haven't experienced the joy of winning a championship while being a fan of Jokerit. If they don't get to do that this season, they might never get to do so. That's why people are pissed off at things right now.

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11-29-2013, 02:20 PM
  #144
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Old
11-29-2013, 10:24 PM
  #145
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This week's issue of sports magazine Urheilusanomat had a story about how player agents are surprised how woefully late Jokerit are in the process of building their KHL team. Most players are deciding their next season's club around this time or have made it already and Jokerit have only now begun inquiring about some player's or haven't even contacted the agents.

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11-30-2013, 02:31 AM
  #146
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This week's issue of sports magazine Urheilusanomat had a story about how player agents are surprised how woefully late Jokerit are in the process of building their KHL team. Most players are deciding their next season's club around this time or have made it already and Jokerit have only now begun inquiring about some player's or haven't even contacted the agents.
Well that doesn't sound promising but I guess some of the new contracts have KHL clauses these days.

The team is very lost atm (has been all season), coaches don't have the players under their control and they still keep taking stupid penalties plus going to offense is slow and predictable. Ässät and Kärpät will wipe the floor with Jokerit on the score board.

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11-30-2013, 07:00 AM
  #147
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Well that doesn't sound promising but I guess some of the new contracts have KHL clauses these days.

The team is very lost atm (has been all season), coaches don't have the players under their control and they still keep taking stupid penalties plus going to offense is slow and predictable. Ässät and Kärpät will wipe the floor with Jokerit on the score board.
It all stems from the front office issues. The search for a new GM/sporting director took so long and Harkimo being what he is. The fact that it's becoming more and more apparent that no one (front office nor on the ice) gives a **** about this season says me Jokeri would have been better off delaying the move to KHL by one year to prepare better for it and the remaining time in Lüga.

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11-30-2013, 07:20 AM
  #148
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Harkimo is clever guy, he knows that euro clubs hockey is in KHL.

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Old
11-30-2013, 07:33 AM
  #149
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Harkimo is a greedy, impatient guy who thinks only of his wallet. His actions are costing more and more fans the longer this mess goes on. There's an increasing amount of posters(Jokerit fans) on Finnish hockey message boards that were previously positive about KHL but now changing their tone due to the way this season is being handled. "If you(Harkimo) **** up this season, you can forget about me following KHL." Not exactly great PR to welcome the 9th best club in Finland to KHL...

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12-03-2013, 01:34 PM
  #150
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Jokerit holding a presser tomorrow regarding next season's team. Most likely announcing Erkka Westerlund as coach.

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