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Game #26|Sat., Nov. 30, 2013| Flyers at Predators |8:00 p.m. ET

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Old
11-30-2013, 02:36 PM
  #26
Hockeypete49
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Preds are really banged up. No excuse to come out and not win this one.
Just because Weber is out does not mean that the preds are going to roll over and play dead. Any away game is tough no matter what.

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11-30-2013, 03:07 PM
  #27
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They have both Rinne and Weber out. Without those two I really cannot think of one star level player on their team. Maybe Josi or Jones I guess. With Klein also injured and Forsberg out as well their biggest strong point at D turns into something not very special at all with all the injuries to it. Even when healthy their forward group is very...well, sad I think.

Just one of those games where it's going to feel like it's unacceptable to have lost if we lose.

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11-30-2013, 03:30 PM
  #28
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Therien said he doesn't expect any changes on the Flyers side. I guess that means Mez is still in.

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11-30-2013, 03:43 PM
  #29
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Therien said he doesn't expect any changes on the Flyers side. I guess that means Mez is still in.
I like what Berube has done with the system and performance of the team, but these lineup decisions man...just...ugh.

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11-30-2013, 03:54 PM
  #30
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Of late Gus has been pretty brutal. Arguing Gus over Mez is splitting hairs in my opinion.

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11-30-2013, 04:00 PM
  #31
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Of late Gus has been pretty brutal. Arguing Gus over Mez is splitting hairs in my opinion.
disagree..

one guys young n learning, the other guy is old enuf to fricken well know better considering what hes getting paid..

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11-30-2013, 04:04 PM
  #32
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Of late Gus has been pretty brutal. Arguing Gus over Mez is splitting hairs in my opinion.
This season Mez has had worse offence, defence, +/-, puck moving, less ice time and more penalties than any other D man per minute. All that with the easiest QoC of the 8.

He is #7 or #8 in all measurable categories/60 among the 8 D men the Flyers have played.

Gus is #1-4 in those measurables.

The only thing better about Mez at this point in his career is his shot.

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11-30-2013, 04:05 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
They have both Rinne and Weber out. Without those two I really cannot think of one star level player on their team. Maybe Josi or Jones I guess. With Klein also injured and Forsberg out as well their biggest strong point at D turns into something not very special at all with all the injuries to it. Even when healthy their forward group is very...well, sad I think.

Just one of those games where it's going to feel like it's unacceptable to have lost if we lose.
You're always just looking for star power, and not taking into account the team as a whole. I remember you doing the same when saying how terrible the Devils were supposed to be.

Mazanec has shown he can hold his own, and while he isn't Rinne, he is good enough not to be discredited as a bad goalie. In fact, he seems to be on quite a roll and can put up a performance that matches, say, Mason's. So then it just depends on how well he'll do on this particular night. Having Weber out is definitely a big blow to the team, but it's just one defender, and other teams, such as Tampa, have shown, it's not about one guy. Forsberg is an absolute non-factor, while Klein is replaceable.

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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
Of late Gus has been pretty brutal. Arguing Gus over Mez is splitting hairs in my opinion.
I think Gus has been alright, not very good, but not terrible. Mez, on the other hand, was brutal yesterday. In the end, it might just be splitting hairs, as you say, though, because Gus unfortunately does not really bring enough to the table that would make anyone miss him if he's swapped with another defender. But I'd still go with him, since his play this season has been better than that of Mez, whose only redeeming point is his slapshot.

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Old
11-30-2013, 04:15 PM
  #34
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Gustafsson has been turning the puck over way too much lately. I like him and want to see him progress, but he hasn't really made the most of his opportunities so far. Whatever, to me it's no big deal, although I can see why some prefer Gus.

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11-30-2013, 04:22 PM
  #35
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To me, we have to let Gus have his bad games and see if he can learn and get better. We know what we're getting with Mez, and that is a well below average D man. Sit Gus for one game at most, but don't sit him for a long stretch of time.

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11-30-2013, 04:26 PM
  #36
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I think we're past 'development' for Gus in the Flyers eyes. For these marginal players of which little is invested in, they see what they need to see, and move them along. They don't get the same leash for growing pains like higher-profile young players do. Of course, one reason is because the Flyers have been terrible finding players who aren't first round draft picks, or have like-value.

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11-30-2013, 04:28 PM
  #37
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Flyers have had more trades with Nashville than games played against them!

17 trades
16 games played

That is pretty funny.

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11-30-2013, 04:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I think we're past 'development' for Gus in the Flyers eyes. For these marginal players of which little is invested in, they see what they need to see, and move them along. They don't get the same leash for growing pains like higher-profile young players do. Of course, one reason is because the Flyers have been terrible finding players who aren't first round draft picks, or have like-value.
Matt Read

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11-30-2013, 04:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Just because Weber is out does not mean that the preds are going to roll over and play dead. Any away game is tough no matter what.
Their missing their two franchise players plus Klein and Forsberg. There's no harm in saying the Flyers should win. That's not me guaranteeing they'll win either.

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11-30-2013, 04:31 PM
  #40
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Matt Read
Read excelled from day one. Gus has only ever been average. Mez still sucks, but it's not like they're scratching a well established pro for him.

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11-30-2013, 04:37 PM
  #41
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Read excelled from day one. Gus has only ever been average. Mez still sucks, but it's not like they're scratching a well established pro for him.
Maybe just my opinion, but I thought Gus has been better than Mez this season. Gus can still get better, not saying he'll be elite, but he's better than mez

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11-30-2013, 04:38 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by FrankM95149 View Post
Matt Read
Randy Jones
Freddy Meyer
Darroll Powe
Andreas Nodl
Jared Ross
Eric Wellwood
Dan Carcillo
Kevin Marshall
Danny Syvret
Mika Pyorala
Ryan Parent
Jon Kalinski
David Laliberte
Oskars Bartulis
Lasse Kukkonen
Nate Guenin
Kyle Greentree
Steve Eminger
Ryan Potulny
Ben Eager
Denis Tolpeko
Stefan Ruzicka


Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

By the way, I agree that Gus should be getting chances. My point is that the Flyers don't allow that to happen unless they decide it looks bad for them (especially value-wise) when they don't. The Flyers lost two solid contributors for future Cup-winning teams because they decided squeezing every drop out of damaged-goods veterans was more worth it than keeping Patrick Sharp and Dennis Seidenberg around, and like, coach them.

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Old
11-30-2013, 04:41 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Randy Jones
Freddy Meyer
Darroll Powe
Andreas Nodl
Jared Ross
Eric Wellwood
Dan Carcillo
Kevin Marshall
Danny Syvret
Mika Pyorala
Ryan Parent
Jon Kalinski
David Laliberte
Oskars Bartulis
Lasse Kukkonen
Nate Guenin
Kyle Greentree
Steve Eminger
Ryan Potulny
Ben Eager
Denis Tolpeko
Stefan Ruzicka


Even a broken clock is right twice a day
What is so bad about Powe and Wellwood?

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11-30-2013, 04:48 PM
  #44
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What is so bad about Powe and Wellwood?
Powe is out of the league. Although, Powe did stick around almost longer than anyone else on that list within the league. And thus did make a good trade. He's the only one besides Meyer where the Flyers actually got some value when they were finished with them.


Wellwood was clearly getting buried (when he shouldn't have), and despite his injury like isn't getting another shot here (he should).


The other point is that for every Matt Read there's 20 other guys who don't pan out, and the Flyers have been awful finding shrewd ways to either get value on the guys they get rid of, or getting them in the first place. The Flyers were in on other hot college free agents that have since not panned out elsewhere. You can't say 'Matt Read' and conclude how excellent the organization is in unearthing hidden gems, especially since they're terrible finding them in the draft. They've had 3rd and 4th round picks walk away without even putting on a Phantoms uniform. That can't happen given that they're often the 2nd or 3rd player we're picking in the draft.

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11-30-2013, 04:55 PM
  #45
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The other point is that for every Matt Read there's 20 other guys who don't pan out, and the Flyers have been awful finding shrewd ways to either get value on the guys they get rid of, or getting them in the first place.
Are you really criticizing the Flyers for not getting value out of Lasse Kukkonen or Oskars Bartulis or anyone else on that list?

What a revelation! Teams don't get great value out of players that suck? You should consult for the Flyers.

If your main point is that the Flyers do a poor job of developing "long shot prospects", well you're a little warmer, but still not close to making a legitimate point. Obviously the list of busts is going to a whole lot longer than the list of hits when our frame of reference is nothing but 3rd+ rounders and undrafted free agents.

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11-30-2013, 05:02 PM
  #46
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Are you really criticizing the Flyers for not getting value out of Lasse Kukkonen or Oskars Bartulis or anyone else on that list?

What a revelation! Teams don't get great value out of players that suck? You should consult for the Flyers.

If your main point is that the Flyers do a poor job of developing "long shot prospects", well you're a little warmer, but still not close to making a legitimate point. Obviously the list of busts is going to a whole lot longer than the list of hits when our frame of reference is nothing but 3rd+ rounders and undrafted free agents.
He said 'Matt Read' in response to me saying that the Flyers move along players who they have little invested in and thus didn't really allow much time to find their niche at this level (when many felt they could have). Matt Read did, and thus he's still here, but the same would have happened if he struggled to find his game as well. You can't name one without acknowledging all the other players who were Matt Read at one time, and then were no longer Matt Read.

Like Gus, they're not given much chance to learn from growing pains, and then got moved on for little or nothing. It's not a condemnation that they got nothing for them, few have done much elsewhere. But the development system was and has been poor for a long time, and the Flyers didn't invest as much time at the NHL level to find a place. The next guy is moved up, and then gets moved along because of the vicious cycle of awful scouting and development exists. Thus, my comment that the Flyers are terrible finding players who weren't first round picks. Only 2 or 3 did they give just enough to do something with them, but they are likewise outliers. And the two guys they actually got somewhere with, Ken Hitchcock didn't know what to do with them (Sharp, Seidenberg).


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11-30-2013, 05:14 PM
  #47
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Mez was actually really really noticeably bad in the game he played.. got absolutely torched and gave up a 2 on 1. then took a penalty on the same shift.

took another penalty but that one wasn't really his fault.

but whatever.

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11-30-2013, 05:17 PM
  #48
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Mez was actually really really noticeably bad in the game he played.. got absolutely torched and gave up a 2 on 1. then took a penalty on the same shift.

took another penalty but that one wasn't really his fault.

but whatever.
I agree. However, Gus also went for a double whammy the previous game, i.e. two turnovers on the same shift.

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11-30-2013, 05:22 PM
  #49
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I actually thought Gill might get a chance, if the #6 guy is getting benched based on how their last game went.

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11-30-2013, 05:23 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
He said 'Matt Read' in response to me saying that the Flyers move along players who they have little invested in and thus didn't really allow much time to find their niche at this level (when many felt they could have). Matt Read did, and thus he's still here, but the same would have happened if he struggled to find his game as well. You can't name one without acknowledging all the other players who were Matt Read at one time, and then were no longer Matt Read.

Like Gus, they're not given much chance to learn from growing pains, and then got moved on for little or nothing. It's not a condemnation that they got nothing for them, few have done much elsewhere. But the development system was and has been poor for a long time, and the Flyers didn't invest as much time at the NHL level to find a place. The next guy is moved up, and then gets moved along because of the vicious cycle of awful scouting and development exists. Thus, my comment that the Flyers are terrible finding players who weren't first round picks. Only 2 or 3 did they give just enough to do something with them, but they are likewise outliers. And the two guys they actually got somewhere with, Ken Hitchcock didn't know what to do with them (Sharp, Seidenberg).
Lately they've been better. Read, McGinn, Rinaldo, Lauridsen, are all later round picks who are doing pretty good picks/pickups. The Flyers have been far from a perfect drafting, FAR from it, but late round picks who turn out to be above average NHL players are pretty rare. Unless you're the Red WIngs


Read technically a pick, but its the same thing.

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