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Byfuglien to Philly

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Old
12-02-2013, 02:13 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

On the other hand, if he was that caliber, he couldn't plausibly be had for the Schenns or Voracek either.
Of course not, you could never trade two young roster players.

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12-02-2013, 02:14 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Nobody here has claimed Buff to be that...
I never said anyone did in this thread. It does happen in pretty much every Buff thread though which was my point. Just look at the ones in the past.

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12-02-2013, 02:15 PM
  #78
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I never said anyone did in this thread. It does happen in pretty much every Buff thread though which was my point. Just look at the ones in the past.
True, true...but those are people that don't watch him play.
Majority disregard idiotic comments.

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12-02-2013, 02:17 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Or more top 6 forward talent. Because a potential Buff trade does not solely need to be about getting a LHD.
Not necessarily, but it's a classic case of supply and demand. We have too much supply, RHD especially offensive ones. Just because we have excess supply, does not mean that what we have is devalued.

Maybe we're not targeting a LHD specifically. I could see Chevys demands changing. I'd be willing to bet he's looking for a LHD right now, but closer to the deadline it may shift to more picks + prospects when we likely don't make the playoffs.

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12-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Not necessarily, but it's a classic case of supply and demand. We have too much supply, RHD especially offensive ones. Just because we have excess supply, does not mean that what we have is devalued.

Maybe we're not targeting a LHD specifically. I could see Chevys demands changing. I'd be willing to bet he's looking for a LHD right now, but closer to the deadline it may shift to more picks + prospects when we likely don't make the playoffs.
For sure, agree totally with your first paragraph here. If one of Buff, Bogo, or Trouba could play on the left, I don't think any of these discussions take place, and we're probably hoping Buff re signs with us.

I just don't think if Buff is moved, that a LHD HAS to be part of the return. We could use an upgrade on Clitsome for sure, but we also have a massive need up front as well.

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12-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #81
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but we also have a massive need up front as well.
Currently we seem to. Goal production hasn't been that good. But what are we supposed to do? Ladd - Little - Wheeler is a good 1st line but they're prone to slumps at times. Halischuk - Scheifele - Frolik are carrying this team currently, so they shouldn't be broken up. That leaves Kane - Jokinen - Setoguchi. Who do we upgrade there? The person that leaves that line, do they go to the 4th line or do they get traded?

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12-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Currently we seem to. Goal production hasn't been that good. But what are we supposed to do? Ladd - Little - Wheeler is a good 1st line but they're prone to slumps at times. Halischuk - Scheifele - Frolik are carrying this team currently, so they shouldn't be broken up. That leaves Kane - Jokinen - Setoguchi. Who do we upgrade there? The person that leaves that line, do they go to the 4th line or do they get traded?
Trade Gooch to the Pens for a 2nd.
Byfuglien and that 2nd for B. Schenn, Hartnell and a B prospect?


Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - Schenn
Hartnell - Scheifele - Frolik
Halischuk - Wright - Thorbs

Enstrom - Bogosian
Clitsome - Trouba
Stuart - Ellerby

Eh not bad, doubt that trade flies with the Flyers with how much they hate Buff. Took Hartnell to offset Buff's salary and I think he'd be good for that line to drive and crash the net.

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12-02-2013, 02:53 PM
  #83
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The forward core is definitely better, but that d-core doesn't look that good. Clitsome is a #5 or so, and Stuart and Ellerby are not long term bottom pair guys.

Top 3 looks great, but bottom 3 doesn't look good at all.

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12-02-2013, 02:53 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Currently we seem to. Goal production hasn't been that good. But what are we supposed to do? Ladd - Little - Wheeler is a good 1st line but they're prone to slumps at times. Halischuk - Scheifele - Frolik are carrying this team currently, so they shouldn't be broken up. That leaves Kane - Jokinen - Setoguchi. Who do we upgrade there? The person that leaves that line, do they go to the 4th line or do they get traded?
I think where we are differing is the time frame you and I are looking at.

If I'm a GM is dealing a piece like Buff, looking at the current roster during the season in which we are most likely not going to make the playoffs, and wondering which guys are going to be immediately replaced is not my perspective. If I'm moving a piece like Buff, I'm thinking next year, and most likely the next 5+ years after.

At that, and not counting on prospects, I'm looking at LLW and Kane as my only top 6 forwards next year. Maybe Scheifele if he keeps on his pace of improvements, but another year on the 3rd line would be where I would want to plan on slotting him in.

So if OJ is not re signed, and Seto possibly walking, we have LLW as the defacto 1st line, and then Kane and no one else next year (right now) as the second line. We then have Scheifele and Frolik as 2 forwards on the 3rd line. All of Halischuk, Tangradi, etc, should be upgraded as they are all better 4th liners than 3rd.

If I'm the GM dealing Buff, I see those as much bigger holes than LHD. Sure Clitsome isn't who we want as the #4, but if OJ and Seto don't come back, we literally don't have 2 NHL level second liners next year to play with Kane.

So yes, if I was the GM and did trade Buff for some forwards, I would just push some of our current guys down a line or two. Moving Buff for me wouldn't have anything to do at this point in trying to somehow make the playoffs this season. It would be a setup to things in the upcoming seasons.

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12-02-2013, 03:08 PM
  #85
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OJ and Seto is key of course, but the GM likely has information right now that we don't. I can see OJ coming back, he's a loyal guy. Seto is an absolute wild card, and rumors are he wants to play on the west coast of the US.

Scheifele and Frolik with Kane isn't a bad idea either. At least we can afford some flexibility unlike years past.

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12-02-2013, 03:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
OJ and Seto is key of course, but the GM likely has information right now that we don't. I can see OJ coming back, he's a loyal guy. Seto is an absolute wild card, and rumors are he wants to play on the west coast of the US.

Scheifele and Frolik with Kane isn't a bad idea either. At least we can afford some flexibility unlike years past.
True, but even if both were wanting to come back, would you WANT them as the #2 line again?

IMO, we need upgrades there if this team is going to think about taking a step forward.

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12-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #87
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If you want to go back to the broadstreet bullies, Dustin Byfuglien is perfect. At 6.5 and 265 can plaY d or forward WOW. You had better start with Sean Couturier + a 1st and in order to get DB you will need to overpay a bit like Sean Couturier+ 1st + Samuel Morin
Only then you might get the deal done.

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12-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
The forward core is definitely better, but that d-core doesn't look that good. Clitsome is a #5 or so, and Stuart and Ellerby are not long term bottom pair guys.

Top 3 looks great, but bottom 3 doesn't look good at all.
I think Ellerby could be a long term guy, seems to be adjusting well to the Jets. Wasn't a fan of the defensive core either but if we're trading Buff for a foward that's what it would look like.

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12-02-2013, 04:05 PM
  #89
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It's the truth. Save percentage completely trumps it.

Hypothetical situation. Say a goalie faces 1000 shots in a game and let's in 10 goals. He'll have a 10.00 GAA and a SVP of 99%.

Which is a more accurate statistic on the goalies performance?
10.00..... hmm really sucks when you put it that way.

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12-02-2013, 04:07 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
If you want to go back to the broadstreet bullies, Dustin Byfuglien is perfect. At 6.5 and 265 can plaY d or forward WOW. You had better start with Sean Couturier + a 1st and in order to get DB you will need to overpay a bit like Sean Couturier+ 1st + Samuel Morin
Only then you might get the deal done.
If Homer did something stupid like that.......BSB sounds good though =)

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12-02-2013, 04:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
If you want to go back to the broadstreet bullies, Dustin Byfuglien is perfect. At 6.5 and 265 can plaY d or forward WOW. You had better start with Sean Couturier + a 1st and in order to get DB you will need to overpay a bit like Sean Couturier+ 1st + Samuel Morin
Only then you might get the deal done.
I'm not sure which is less appealing, Couturier, Morin and a 1st for Byfuglien or "going back to the Broad Street Bullies" in 2013.

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12-02-2013, 05:05 PM
  #92
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Wow, there are a lot of retarded bickering going on back and forth between both fan bases.

Is Buff an asset to the offense?? Yes. Is he at least somewhat questionable in his own zone? Yes. Would he make the Flyers better? Undoubtedly yes. However, would the Flyers be a better team with Buff if the price is both Schenns or JV? That is doubtful.

The Flyers problem this year doesn't stem from their defense. We are playing sound hockey in our own zone and supporting the forwards more than adequately. Our scoring woes don't stem from lack of support from the blue line. It's coming because of some very lazy play by the forwards. Adding in Buff regardless of the price isn't suddenly going to make the forwards play better or put the puck in the back of the net.

The only thing that keeps us in the game most nights is outstanding goal tending and stellar play from the dman in their own zone. The only one of our dman who is not CLEARLY better than Buff in our own zone is Schenn. Thus, Buff may actually HURT us more than he helps us (though I think it would be no less than just a wash).

To put it simply, with the likely price to acquire him the Flyers probably would end up a worse team. Also, Buff doesn't address our real need of a true #1 dman to replace Timonen and trading for Buff would eat up some of those assets that could be used to acquire said #1 dman. Very few Flyers fans would be willing to give up the assets necessary to acquire Buff. It's not really about how good he is or isn't, it's about just being a dumb move as it doesn't address our actual team needs and doesn't help build us a better overall team.

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12-02-2013, 05:53 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
If you want to go back to the broadstreet bullies, Dustin Byfuglien is perfect. At 6.5 and 265 can plaY d or forward WOW. You had better start with Sean Couturier + a 1st and in order to get DB you will need to overpay a bit like Sean Couturier+ 1st + Samuel Morin
Only then you might get the deal done.
Wow, are you ever clueless. He's not freaking Shea Weber or Ryan Suter for gods sake.

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12-02-2013, 06:05 PM
  #94
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Wow, are you ever clueless. He's not freaking Shea Weber or Ryan Suter for gods sake.
No he's not but if you wanted one of them it would something along the lines of Schenn, Schenn, Couts, 1st, 1st and they'd still would say to add more.

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12-02-2013, 06:25 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
If you want to go back to the broadstreet bullies, Dustin Byfuglien is perfect. At 6.5 and 265 can plaY d or forward WOW. You had better start with Sean Couturier + a 1st and in order to get DB you will need to overpay a bit like Sean Couturier+ 1st + Samuel Morin
Only then you might get the deal done.
There's no player on Winnipeg that gets that package.

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12-02-2013, 06:27 PM
  #96
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No he's not but if you wanted one of them it would something along the lines of Schenn, Schenn, Couts, 1st, 1st and they'd still would say to add more.
you sir are not going to like the responses you get to this...

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12-02-2013, 06:31 PM
  #97
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you sir are not going to like the responses you get to this...
When was the last time a franchise top 5 defenseman was moved? Never. Guaranteed it would be a package along those lines at the least, guys like Weber and Suter aren't in abundance.

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12-02-2013, 06:37 PM
  #98
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When was the last time a franchise top 5 defenseman was moved? Never. Guaranteed it would be a package along those lines at the least, guys like Weber and Suter aren't in abundance.
Mum, try Chris Pronger four freaking times!!!! Ever hear of a guy named Celios???? How about that guy from Boston, I think he wore #88 and was called Ray or something???

Yeah, franchise dman NEVER get traded.

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12-02-2013, 06:37 PM
  #99
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When was the last time a franchise top 5 defenseman was moved? Never. Guaranteed it would be a package along those lines at the least, guys like Weber and Suter aren't in abundance.
are we still talking about buff?

great player? absolutely
second coming of Bobby Orr? not even close.

edit: got crossed up, but the point still stands.

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12-02-2013, 06:40 PM
  #100
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are we still talking about buff?

great player? absolutely
second coming of Bobby Orr? not even close.
You misread his post--as I did too the first time.

He was saying that that would be the price for Weber or Suter.

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