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Byfuglien to Philly

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Old
12-02-2013, 06:44 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
You misread his post--as I did too the first time.

He was saying that that would be the price for Weber or Suter.
you're right.

I still don't think weber, or any one player in the league minus MAYBE crosby/malkin get that package. 5 first rounders essentially, with 2 of them showing star potential already... sorry, that's a pass from me.

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12-02-2013, 06:47 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Mum, try Chris Pronger four freaking times!!!! Ever hear of a guy named Celios???? How about that guy from Boston, I think he wore #88 and was called Ray or something???

Yeah, franchise dman NEVER get traded.
You named like 3 guys over about a 25 year period. I think you should also look into what point in their careers they were traded, the extenuating circumstances, and who they were traded for.

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12-02-2013, 06:48 PM
  #103
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Big Buff would be loved in Philly the second he steps on the ice. The Schenns for Byfuglien and Tangradi would be a move the Flyers would (or should) consider.

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12-02-2013, 06:49 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by martin27 View Post
I know its Eklund but he has for the past few months constantly linked Byfuglien to the flyers. He seems to do well with Philly info.

Would...

B.Schenn, L.Schenn get it done? Fair value?

or

Voracek straight up perhaps?

Am I right in thinking the Jets needs are; winger, centre, defensive defence-man?
Voracek for Byfuglien. I'd do that any day if I'm Winnipeg.

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12-02-2013, 06:49 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Thesaurus View Post
When was the last time a franchise top 5 defenseman was moved? Never. Guaranteed it would be a package along those lines at the least, guys like Weber and Suter aren't in abundance.
Byfuglien???????????

What?????????????

I've seen it all on HF!

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12-02-2013, 06:51 PM
  #106
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to get back on topic, buff is going to cost more than philly is going to want to give up, plain and simple.

my guess is something along the lines of coburn, cousins, mcginn, '15 1st

I have absolutely no idea if that's fair, but it's probably the most I would comfortably do for a guy with that many question marks.

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12-02-2013, 06:56 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Byfuglien???????????

What?????????????

I've seen it all on HF!
He was referring Weber and Suter, nobody said Buff was a top 5 D.

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12-02-2013, 07:07 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Mum, try Chris Pronger four freaking times!!!! Ever hear of a guy named Celios???? How about that guy from Boston, I think he wore #88 and was called Ray or something???

Yeah, franchise dman NEVER get traded.
Ray Bourque was near the end of his career and obviously there are guys who are traded, I was merely making a point.

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12-02-2013, 07:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Thesaurus View Post
Ray Bourque was near the end of his career and obviously there are guys who are traded, I was merely making a point.
Chris Chelios was also traded for Denis Savard after an alleged fight with police officers and the second time he was traded I believe he was 37.

Chris Pronger was traded the first time for Shannahan and that was before he had established himself. The second time the Blues were trying to sell the team, the salary cap had just been put into place, and I believe his contract was very close to ending. He then requested out of Edmonton. The last time he was traded to the Flyers I will concede but he was also in his mid thirties.

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12-02-2013, 08:00 PM
  #110
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I just wanted to add this for EVERYONES sake. Purely offensive dman like Buff are not nearly as sought after nor are as valuable in a trade as many people here seem to think. Souray was equal in every way to Buff and he was bought out. Even when he actually was traded he didn't return anything close to what is being asked for in this and the many other threads.

The fact is that Buff, Yandle and Edler have all been quietly shopped for the last 2 years. 2 FREAKING YEARS!!!! I'm sure teams have inquired about acquiring them but NONE have been moved. All 3 have been rumored to be going to Philly along with a plethora of other teams and guess what, they are still with their original team.

I've some attempts at throwing out phrases like"supply and demand" to justify the exorbitant asking price for Buff but that's a failure in truly understanding of said principle. The reality is that the supply of like minded dman is 3 (Buff, KY and Edler) and the demand is zero (none have been traded).

You can sit there and say "It's going to cost you Couturier, Morin and a 1st for Buff" all you want but you are completely clueless if you think that's what he's worth. No team is going to offer that much for him hence he's still on your team.

I'll try and put it into perspective for you. Chris Pronger, a future HOF player, who when traded immediately LEAD his new team the the Cup finals, was traded to Philly for Lupul, Sbissa, and a 1st. If you asked any TO fans I think they'd gladly trade Lupul for Couturier. Ask most Duck fans and I think they'd trade Sbissa for Morin. If you honestly believe that you could get Couturier + Morin + a 1st (equal or better than what Pronger returned) then you have no clue about this game, the history of trades, nor ACTUAL player values and it's pointless to discuss it any further with you.

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12-02-2013, 08:07 PM
  #111
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In terms of all the defensemen in the Winnipeg Jets organization alone, Dustin Byfuglien is the number 5 defenseman I'd want to trade for. Meaning, there are at least four other defensemen in that organization alone that I'd prefer to have over Byfuglien: Bogosian, Morrissey, Trouba, Enstrom, (Although this isn't to say any of them would be available).

Yeah... I really don't want Buff anywhere near the Flyers, Hell to the No.

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12-02-2013, 08:08 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I'll try and put it into perspective for you. Chris Pronger, a future HOF player, who when traded immediately LEAD his new team the the Cup finals, was traded to Philly for Lupul, Sbissa, and a 1st.
This is a very valid point. Some of the proposals on here are downright insane. Dustin Byfuglien, Keith Yandle and Alex Edler will not fetch the type of return Chris Pronger warranted (nor should they). That said, I disagree a bit with your point about Yandle and Byfuglien being passed on by the Flyers, based on their lack of value. Both are players that would help the Flyers tremendously. The issue is most likely that both teams are looking for an extreme return - a price the Flyers are not willing to pay.

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12-02-2013, 08:23 PM
  #113
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Would a trade of Kane + Buff for the Schenns and Simmonds work? I might be waaaay off but that would be a dream.

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12-02-2013, 08:28 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thesaurus View Post
Ray Bourque was near the end of his career and obviously there are guys who are traded, I was merely making a point.
I know what your point was and you arewrong, DEAD wrong at that. The fact is that franchise dman DO get traded and it's NEVER for what you CLAIMED it would be. The facts debunk your "claim" and they absolutely support mine.

Yes, if ANY franchise player gets traded there are ALWAYS mitigating circumstances but they NEVER return what you claimed it would cost to acquire them. I cited you 3 players and 8 trades just off the top of my head.

Do you think that Nashville isn't really close to going into full on rebuild/retool mode??? If they do decide to do that then there is a damned good chance that Weber IS traded and he'll be traded for far leas than what you claimed he'd return in this thread.

You are wrong and I am right.

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12-02-2013, 08:33 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I just wanted to add this for EVERYONES sake. Purely offensive dman like Buff are not nearly as sought after nor are as valuable in a trade as many people here seem to think. Souray was equal in every way to Buff and he was bought out. Even when he actually was traded he didn't return anything close to what is being asked for in this and the many other threads.

The fact is that Buff, Yandle and Edler have all been quietly shopped for the last 2 years. 2 FREAKING YEARS!!!! I'm sure teams have inquired about acquiring them but NONE have been moved. All 3 have been rumored to be going to Philly along with a plethora of other teams and guess what, they are still with their original team.

I've some attempts at throwing out phrases like"supply and demand" to justify the exorbitant asking price for Buff but that's a failure in truly understanding of said principle. The reality is that the supply of like minded dman is 3 (Buff, KY and Edler) and the demand is zero (none have been traded).

You can sit there and say "It's going to cost you Couturier, Morin and a 1st for Buff" all you want but you are completely clueless if you think that's what he's worth. No team is going to offer that much for him hence he's still on your team.

I'll try and put it into perspective for you. Chris Pronger, a future HOF player, who when traded immediately LEAD his new team the the Cup finals, was traded to Philly for Lupul, Sbissa, and a 1st. If you asked any TO fans I think they'd gladly trade Lupul for Couturier. Ask most Duck fans and I think they'd trade Sbissa for Morin. If you honestly believe that you could get Couturier + Morin + a 1st (equal or better than what Pronger returned) then you have no clue about this game, the history of trades, nor ACTUAL player values and it's pointless to discuss it any further with you.
This post is full of so much fail…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxscore View Post
This is a very valid point. Some of the proposals on here are downright insane. Dustin Byfuglien, Keith Yandle and Alex Edler will not fetch the type of return Chris Pronger warranted (nor should they). That said, I disagree a bit with your point about Yandle and Byfuglien being passed on by the Flyers, based on their lack of value. Both are players that would help the Flyers tremendously. The issue is most likely that both teams are looking for an extreme return - a price the Flyers are not willing to pay.
Pronger was 35 had 1 year left on his contract and it looked like the Ducks owner might be heading to jail...

BTW it was Lupul (who is good and was good), Sbisa (who was highly touted), and 2x 1st rounder

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12-02-2013, 08:33 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Boxscore View Post
This is a very valid point. Some of the proposals on here are downright insane. Dustin Byfuglien, Keith Yandle and Alex Edler will not fetch the type of return Chris Pronger warranted (nor should they). That said, I disagree a bit with your point about Yandle and Byfuglien being passed on by the Flyers, based on their lack of value. Both are players that would help the Flyers tremendously. The issue is most likely that both teams are looking for an extreme return - a price the Flyers are not willing to pay.
It's a price NO team has been willing to pay. NO TEAM!!!!

Look, just because I have a shiny new bike and the kid down the street would like to have one to get to school doesn't mean that I can tell him that I'd sell it to him for a million bucks and expect him to actually pay that much especially when there are two of my neighbors who have bikes too and MIGHT sell theirs.

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12-02-2013, 08:38 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by yauger27 View Post
Would a trade of Kane + Buff for the Schenns and Simmonds work? I might be waaaay off but that would be a dream.
jets will likely want more. the schenns should be enough to get buff, but simmonds straight up for kane won't get it done. probably need to add pick(s) and/or grossmann or coburn...as a flyers fan I'd be ok with it.

schenns, simmonds, '15 1st

for

buff and kane

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12-02-2013, 08:44 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by TheShaneTrain View Post
jets will likely want more. the schenns should be enough to get buff, but simmonds straight up for kane won't get it done. probably need to add pick(s) and/or grossmann or coburn...as a flyers fan I'd be ok with it.

schenns, simmonds, '15 1st

for

buff and kane
Fine by me! I'd love the Schenns and Simmonds in a Jets uniform!

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12-02-2013, 08:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I know what your point was and you arewrong, DEAD wrong at that. The fact is that franchise dman DO get traded and it's NEVER for what you CLAIMED it would be. The facts debunk your "claim" and they absolutely support mine.

Yes, if ANY franchise player gets traded there are ALWAYS mitigating circumstances but they NEVER return what you claimed it would cost to acquire them. I cited you 3 players and 8 trades just off the top of my head.

Do you think that Nashville isn't really close to going into full on rebuild/retool mode??? If they do decide to do that then there is a damned good chance that Weber IS traded and he'll be traded for far leas than what you claimed he'd return in this thread.

You are wrong and I am right.
Chelios was traded for Denis Savard, Pronger was traded for Shannahan and the second time Brewer(who was Olympic calibre at the time, and two highly touted prospects in Woywitka, and Lynch, Bourque was 39 and returned Rolston, a 1st, recent 2nd round prospect, and Sammy Pahlsson.

Maybe not astronomical returns due to circumstances but not exactly L.Schenn and a 2nd either.

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12-02-2013, 08:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Pronger was 35 had 1 year left on his contract and it looked like the Ducks owner might be heading to jail...

BTW it was Lupul (who is good and was good), Sbisa (who was highly touted), and 2x 1st rounder
Pronger was traded 3 times. The two trades prior to Philly were...

Trade 1: Pronger to Edmonton for Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch.

Trade 2: Pronger to Anaheim for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, 1st rounder and a conditional 1st rounder.

The point being, Chris Pronger is a future 1st ballot HHOFer and one of the best at his position all-time. You cannot compare players like Yandle and Byfuglien to Pronger. Even at 35, Pronger was a proven Champion and was in pristine physical condition - if he didn't sustain that unfortunate injury he would have had a productive career until he was 40-41 like Rob Blake.

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12-02-2013, 09:35 PM
  #121
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Fine by me! I'd love the Schenns and Simmonds in a Jets uniform!
in all likelihood I'll be flamed by my fellow flyers fans for that proposal, but I understand the concept of "give to get". none of the pieces leaving philly in that deal strike me as game breakers. kane and buff, while flawed in their own rights, can single-handedly take over a game and are exactly the kind of players philly needs right now.

I seriously doubt that move would happen either way, but I think the value is pretty close

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12-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Chelios was traded for Denis Savard, Pronger was traded for Shannahan and the second time Brewer(who was Olympic calibre at the time, and two highly touted prospects in Woywitka, and Lynch, Bourque was 39 and returned Rolston, a 1st, recent 2nd round prospect, and Sammy Pahlsson.

Maybe not astronomical returns due to circumstances but not exactly L.Schenn and a 2nd either.
Wowitka was a bust and everyone knew it. It was the 2nd time he was traded before he even made it to the NHL and there was a reason for it. He was no longer "highly tooted". Try again.

I never said Buff was only worth L Schenn and a 2nd. I know he's worth far more than that. That offer was as god awful as Coots + Morin + 1st ++. Realistically, he's probably worth B Schenn + 2nd. A 2nd line center with low end top line potential. The 2nd makes up for the "potential".

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12-02-2013, 10:26 PM
  #123
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Byfuglien has this rep of being so poor defensively, but nobody looks at the corsi. Buff is top 10 5v5 in the league plus putting up huge offensive numbers. He has played like a wrecking ball in the past, but as of this year it seems he's figured it out kindof, how to do both

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12-02-2013, 10:28 PM
  #124
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I don't think he's the second coming of bobby orr, or one of the top 5 current dmen, but as you flyers fans can attest to from our shootout win a few weeks ago, he's nothing short of a game changer.

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12-02-2013, 10:58 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Only Jokinen View Post
I don't think he's the second coming of bobby orr, or one of the top 5 current dmen, but as you flyers fans can attest to from our shootout win a few weeks ago, he's nothing short of a game changer.

Lol, so ONE game makes him a "game changer"????

In that case I guess that you Jets fans should know that COUTURIER is a "game changer" since he was a beast in our game this weekend.

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