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Mon., Dec. 2, 2013| Flyers 0 at Wild 2

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Old
12-02-2013, 09:52 PM
  #51
Striiker
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Schenn really needs to be on a line with Voracek or Giroux. I would put him with Voracek because of the chemistry they showed last season
Yup, I'd like to see them switch it up and have Schenn-Giroux-Voracek and Hartnell-Lecavelier-Simmonds

Schenn can at least shoot the puck, unlike Hartnell, which would be nice with Giroux setting him up. I feel bad for Lecavelier but at least Hartnell and Simmonds would just suck it up at the same time instead of poisoning two different lines.

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12-02-2013, 09:53 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Schenn really needs to be on a line with Voracek or Giroux. I would put him with Voracek because of the chemistry they showed last season
I guess. I'm just not as high on him as I once was. I just don't think he's good enough away from the puck to be an upper echelon point producer. His speed has also hindered him. His acceleration isn't much better than his brother's.

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12-02-2013, 09:54 PM
  #53
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Raffl is an odd guy to bother about right now. Depth player who is rarely a liability defensively and can contribute to the PK. I can think of many worse fourth line options.

I don't blame all of Hartnell or Simmonds struggles on them just because they're not the type of players to create offense on their own or even be a catalyst for offense. They're finishers pure and simple and it usually either comes off the rush or in front of the net doing their screening/deflection stuff. They're not going to spark some kind of impressive offensive play most of the time and they're not going to snipe in goals often.

This forward group can't really do much mostly because it's a bad mish mesh of forwards. We got the Couturier line we can't break up because it's a tremendous two-way line and our only line that can be a powerful force both ways of the ice. It's also always our most dependable one. This leaves limited options for the top six and with Lecavalier in and out with injuries as well as disappointing with faceoffs, Voracek going back to his usual secondary production that his career is mostly filled with, and Hartnell plus Simmonds playing essentially the same type of game as well as not being a good fit here or being all that talented to begin with...it's kind of a mess of a top six. There's Giroux then a bunch of crap thrown together it feels like for me then the Couturier line.

Or at least that's how I see it.

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12-02-2013, 09:55 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Yup, I'd like to see them switch it up and have Schenn-Giroux-Voracek and Hartnell-Lecavelier-Simmonds

Schenn can at least shoot the puck, unlike Hartnell, which would be nice with Giroux setting him up. I feel bad for Lecavelier but at least Hartnell and Simmonds would just suck it up at the same time instead of poisoning two different lines.
Either that or put Lecavalier with Giroux and Schenn at center.

hartnell-giroux-lecavalier
simmonds-schenn-voracek

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12-02-2013, 09:56 PM
  #55
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I forgot Schenn. Guy gets thrown around the lineup more then anyone really and he hasn't shown much other then an impressive ability to finish his chances, especially in the slot. I know he's among our leaders in points but it's still unclear if he'll ever be a primary point producer and I bet getting shifted every which way in the lineup doesn't help.

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12-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I forgot Schenn. Guy gets thrown around the lineup more then anyone really and he hasn't shown much other then an impressive ability to finish his chances, especially in the slot. I know he's among our leaders in points but it's still unclear if he'll ever be a primary point producer and I bet getting shifted every which way in the lineup doesn't help.
But they've never really given him an extended chance of the first line with Giroux and Voracek. It's at least worth a try and I can't believe he'd be a worse option that Hartnell.

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12-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I guess. I'm just not as high on him as I once was. I just don't think he's good enough away from the puck to be an upper echelon point producer. His speed has also hindered him. His acceleration isn't much better than his brother's.
I haven't been high on him either, nor does it look like he's proving us wrong. People on the main boards think he's got #1C potential? I don't know about that... I just don't see it.

Overrated speed, inconsistent (I understand his age), an okay wrist shot, and average defense and hockey IQ. I'd trade him as well at this point.

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12-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #58
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Flyers can play the shell game all they want like Lavi did..doesn't change the fact they lack the right mix of players..particularly skilled ones.

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12-02-2013, 10:00 PM
  #59
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My only specific issue with this game was the second goal

Other than that, it's only the consistent lack of offense force that is really bad.

Wild played great, they deserved to win. Harding closed the game beautifully, tip of the cap to him and the Wild.

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12-02-2013, 10:00 PM
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Sign gagne!
YES x1000

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12-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #61
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Sign gagne!
Lmao!

No!

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12-02-2013, 10:03 PM
  #62
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I like simmonds and hartnell both, but with the addition of downie and mcginn waiting in the wings, the "physical winger" aspect is not something this team lacks. in fact, it's redundant and more of a hindrance to the offense.

hartnell has little to no trade value atm and mcginn's done nothing to demand any substantial return. downie, while physical, is a different player who I'd like to see re-signed.

that leaves simmonds, who just so happens to hold the most trade value out of the bunch.wouldn't be the least bit shocked to see him traded. and soon.

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12-02-2013, 10:03 PM
  #63
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This is just an overrated team top to bottom...

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12-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #64
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Girouxs lack of production is becoming more and more clear. He has an elite skill set and elite talent, but he doesn't play the sort of game that is conducive to being the sort of player that can create his own offense. Part of that is because he simply doesn't have the frame for it. He needs skilled wingers who can get on the same page as him and have a high iq for the game and can shoot. He needs someone who's a big body, can win the puck, find open space and shoot very well. We don't have anyone that even remotely fits that description, so Girouxs talent is essentially being wasted.

So who do we blame this on?

Well, Bobby Ryan naturally.

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12-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Raffl is an odd guy to bother about right now. Depth player who is rarely a liability defensively and can contribute to the PK. I can think of many worse fourth line options.

I don't blame all of Hartnell or Simmonds struggles on them just because they're not the type of players to create offense on their own or even be a catalyst for offense. They're finishers pure and simple and it usually either comes off the rush or in front of the net doing their screening/deflection stuff. They're not going to spark some kind of impressive offensive play most of the time and they're not going to snipe in goals often.

This forward group can't really do much mostly because it's a bad mish mesh of forwards. We got the Couturier line we can't break up because it's a tremendous two-way line and our only line that can be a powerful force both ways of the ice. It's also always our most dependable one. This leaves limited options for the top six and with Lecavalier in and out with injuries as well as disappointing with faceoffs, Voracek going back to his usual secondary production that his career is mostly filled with, and Hartnell plus Simmonds playing essentially the same type of game as well as not being a good fit here or being all that talented to begin with...it's kind of a mess of a top six. There's Giroux then a bunch of crap thrown together it feels like for me then the Couturier line.

Or at least that's how I see it.
I don't want to speak for everyone, but I don't really think that's our problem with them. For me, it's that they both make such horrible decisions with the puck in the form of bad passes and turnovers that hurt the team constantly. They're never going to be snipers but they're also not getting the dirty goals either. I can't even count how many up-close empty nets they've missed this season. I know I keep saying this but Hartnell is single handedly (but with increasing help from Jake every game) killing the first line and Giroux's production.

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12-02-2013, 10:05 PM
  #66
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Missed the game... Did we suck or did we suck?

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12-02-2013, 10:05 PM
  #67
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The current Gagne wouldn't help, but it is funny that a prime or even prime'ish Gagne would be a perfect fit for this team.

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12-02-2013, 10:05 PM
  #68
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Jake will rebound. Last year was not a fluke. Hartell however needs to go. I'm sure a team like edm will easily take him for a 2nd

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12-02-2013, 10:06 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Girouxs lack of production is becoming more and more clear. He has an elite skill set and elite talent, but he doesn't play the sort of game that is conducive to being the sort of player that can create his own offense. Part of that is because he simply doesn't have the frame for it. He needs skilled wingers who can get on the same page as him and have a high iq for the game and can shoot. He needs someone who's a big body, can win the puck, find open space and shoot very well. We don't have anyone that even remotely fits that description, so Girouxs talent is essentially being wasted.

So who do we blame this on?

Well, Bobby Ryan naturally.
Exactly, a grinder who can't score up close anymore and a playmaker who can't make plays anymore are not the wingers you put with an franchise #1 center. You need someone to shoot the damn puck.

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12-02-2013, 10:07 PM
  #70
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Jake will rebound. Last year was not a fluke. Hartell however needs to go. I'm sure a team like edm will easily take him for a 2nd
I'd have absolutely no gripes about trading anyone besides Giroux, Couturier or Mason.

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12-02-2013, 10:08 PM
  #71
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Jake will rebound. Last year was not a fluke. Hartell however needs to go. I'm sure a team like edm will easily take him for a 2nd
I'm all for it. The question is would Edm really do it and will Homer recognize that he needs to get rid of Hartnell?

I feel bad for saying all this because Hartnell is a genuinely good guy, but he's just not useful on this team right now.

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12-02-2013, 10:08 PM
  #72
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Exactly, a grinder who can't score up close anymore and a playmaker who can't make plays anymore are not the wingers you put with an franchise #1 center. You need someone to shoot the damn puck.
Again, and I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but... Anthony Mantha.

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12-02-2013, 10:09 PM
  #73
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I don't want to speak for everyone, but I don't really think that's our problem with them. For me, it's that they both make such horrible decisions with the puck in the form of bad passes and turnovers that hurt the team constantly. They're never going to be snipers but they're also not getting the dirty goals either. I can't even count how many up-close empty nets they've missed this season. I know I keep saying this but Hartnell is single handedly (but with increasing help from Jake every game) killing the first line and Giroux's production.
That's my point. I'm on record of this before, but I've never been a big fan of Hartnell because he doesn't contribute anything outside of goals even when he was scoring them.

My point is that Hartnell has always been this bad or at least not all that good outside of his specialty areas so this is nothing new. It's just that he's not scoring many goals so that lack of use outside of goal scoring is more evident and more of a problem. Our offense also isn't potent enough to help Hartnell or Simmonds do their thing since their thing revolves around burying goals.

Maybe it's just me though.

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12-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #74
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Watching sportsnight and giroux thought the team played a good game... How can you play good and lay an egg on the scoreboard?

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12-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #75
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Whatever the issues may be, one thing is pretty clear to me. This team is just not the right mix of players. Something about them, I don't even know what it is, which is scary because I don't know where to start. Something is off with this team. They had a decent stretch, largely because mason is a mad man, but that doesn't change the GLARING issues. I'm keeping Giroux, Couturier and Mason and I'm literally putting EVERYONE else on the table for discussion.

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