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Mon., Dec. 2, 2013| Flyers 0 at Wild 2

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:57 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Had not thought of Straka. But I also dont know how the organization views him. It doesnt seem to be the "MO" of the Flyers to call up someone because a shakeup or however you want to call it is needed. They are going to continue to roll out what they have and hope they break out of this season long funk.
I'd love to see them give him a chance. I don't know much about him other than he has a good shot and can score goals, which is exactly the type of player this team needs. Of course we don't know if he can do that at the NHL level but I think it's worth a shot. I don't want Hartnell to get hurt or anything but it'd be nice if he could just get the flu for a week or something and force them to call someone up.

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12-03-2013, 02:39 AM
  #102
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Really boring game.

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12-03-2013, 02:43 AM
  #103
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I'm not even blaming Homer: one year you have a very young team overachieving, then they go down and up again in a shortened season, now we have the train wreck of a training camp and dismissal of the headcoach and a system change.
It is very difficult to get a read on this roster and to decide who is a keeper and who they should get rid of without selling low on a player who may bounce back. And there is still much hockey to be played this season...

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12-03-2013, 05:04 AM
  #104
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This team is just not good. The Rangers and New Jersey showed that if you play them tight, they fold. That was the same 2 seasons ago as it is today. The only difference is more teams are playing a tight checking game now.

This all starts from the defense. You have to move the puck fast in today's NHL and the Flyers defense can't do it. Couple that with some forwards who still don't move their feet on a consistent basis and you have one of the worst offenses in the league. Another year of developing isn't going to change any of that. The mix of players needs to be changed.

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12-03-2013, 06:25 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Comparing Raffl to Nodl is being too generous. Nodl actually scored 11 goals in 67 games one season.

McGinn in for Raffl is a no brainer in my opinion.


Raffl is at least trying hard.
Schenn and Simmer are completely anemic right now. Both combined for 0 (zero!) shots against the Wild yesterday.


Quote:
Without Lecavalier, the Flyers’ No. 2 line seemed out of sync. The line of Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds and Michael Raffl combined for just two shots _ both by Raffl.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...fLb06sWzCfu.99

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12-03-2013, 08:06 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Raffl is at least trying hard.
Schenn and Simmer are completely anemic right now. Both combined for 0 (zero!) shots against the Wild yesterday.
B Schenn is invisible in games. His points have come from being in the right place at the right time. Normally I would say that was skill but in his case judging from the rest of his game I would say that is luck.

Also singling out Raffl when the top two lines of high paid scorers aren't scoring (22 games out of 27 at 2 goals or less) is ridiculous.

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12-03-2013, 08:20 AM
  #107
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I'll say it again, but this team needs a winger that can legitimately play with Giroux. As it stands now, they have nine middle six wingers. You can rearrange the pieces however you want, but the results are going to be the same. They should be exploring every option out there for an upgrade.

Brayden Schenn is quickly becoming one of the more frustrating players in the league to watch. His play away from the puck is atrocious. He chases the play for most of the game and looks largely invisible most of the time while doing it. He's got good finish around the net, but nearly everything else about his game is below average. I'm starting to think this guy will only ever be a 2nd/3rd line tweener.

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12-03-2013, 08:25 AM
  #108
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On and I forgot, it's hard to produce offense when you have one of the slowest group of forwards in the league. Well even that's not entirely accurate. They have a bunch of guys that can skate fast without the puck (Simmonds, Hartnell, Schenn, Lecavalier), but they don't have a single guy that can break through the neutral zone with the puck and force the opposing defensemen back. Clog the neutral zone against this team and you get what we've seen from them.

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12-03-2013, 08:36 AM
  #109
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I'm not ever really for big shake up trades because I feel like the Flyers make them too often, but this might be time to make some kind of big move. Not a core shakeup, but something.

I think the main core is Giroux, Couturier, and Mason and they shouldn't be moved. After that Voracek, Schenn, and Simmonds. I'd be reluctent to trade someone from that second group, but it's probably what would need to happen to get another top line player in here.

I would honestly look to move players straight up for comparable players with a different skillset. I think the biggest thing thus far is that the skills of our forwards don't mesh well, and our defense is too slow mentally and physically.

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12-03-2013, 08:55 AM
  #110
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I'm coming to a point of making peace with the fact that the present group is mediocre and will remain mediocre until something happens. That something could be the arrival of a legitimate top-pairing two-way defenseman (our hopes are pinned on years-away Morin, Hagg and Gostisbehere), the emergence of the potential of several of the younger forwards at once, or a major trade.

At present, I'd roll with the following lines:
Lecavalier – Giroux – Voracek
Downie – Couturier – Read
Hartnell – Schenn – Simmonds
Raffl – Hall – Rinaldo

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12-03-2013, 09:01 AM
  #111
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they need a better defense...it all starts there.

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12-03-2013, 09:04 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Oh, and let me guess: We need a new Gagne?
05-06 Gagne would be ****ing awesome right now.

It was a disappointing result, but I thought the team tried hard all night and did their best. They just don't have enough skill in the top 6 and enough quality in the defense to be able to generate offense against a team like Minnesota, especially in Minnesota.

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12-03-2013, 09:08 AM
  #113
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You saw the Raffl, Schenn and Simmonds and you just knew it'd be a black hole of offense. How right we were. I'm losing patience with Schenn. Ripping one in out of nothing occasionally is all well and good but how long has it been since he legitimately impressed? I'm up for trading the brothers while they still have value.

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12-03-2013, 09:08 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I'm coming to a point of making peace with the fact that the present group is mediocre and will remain mediocre until something happens. That something could be the arrival of a legitimate top-pairing two-way defenseman (our hopes are pinned on years-away Morin, Hagg and Gostisbehere), the emergence of the potential of several of the younger forwards at once, or a major trade.

At present, I'd roll with the following lines:
Lecavalier – Giroux – Voracek
Downie – Couturier – Read
Hartnell – Schenn – Simmonds
Raffl – Hall – Rinaldo
I think the best thing that can be done now is to stack the 1st line and shelter the 3rd. The Couturier line is right now our best denfensively and best offensively. It is our first line, and it shouldn't be.

We need to roll a top line for 20 minutes, a 2nd line for 20, 3rd for 12, 4th for 8 kind of setup.

No one wants to put Hartnell and Simmonds on the same line, let alone with Schenn, but if you play the matchup game and give them as many offensive zone starts as possible it might help.

That's a line that can forecheck and if they can win the faceoff (a big if with Schenn at this point) they can be a good line. I'll live with that line getting pinned in their own zone a couple times a game if they can repeat the favor, and if it gives us at least 2 good other lines.

Right now we're a 1 line team and it's our friggin checking line.

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12-03-2013, 09:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
they need a better defense...it all starts there.
Would I be correct in interpreting 'better' as contributing to the offense? A faster puck carrier would be a huge plus to this team. The trade idea swirling around in my head would be Alex Edler (who, to me, doesn't fit the Tortorella vision) for the Schenns. Next year, roll out the following:
Coburn – Edler
Streit – Gustafsson
Grossmann – XXXXX

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12-03-2013, 09:10 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I'm coming to a point of making peace with the fact that the present group is mediocre and will remain mediocre until something happens. That something could be the arrival of a legitimate top-pairing two-way defenseman (our hopes are pinned on years-away Morin, Hagg and Gostisbehere), the emergence of the potential of several of the younger forwards at once, or a major trade.

At present, I'd roll with the following lines:
Lecavalier – Giroux – Voracek
Downie – Couturier – Read
Hartnell – Schenn – Simmonds
Raffl – Hall – Rinaldo
I would hate to break up the only line that works, but I would try Read-Giroux-Vinny and Downie - Couturier - Voracek. That leaves your two fourth lines the same.

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12-03-2013, 09:13 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Comparing Raffl to Nodl is being too generous. Nodl actually scored 11 goals in 67 games one season.

McGinn in for Raffl is a no brainer in my opinion.
McGinn can go on the 2nd line if Vinny's out for a while, but Raffl should be on the 4th line ahead of Rosehill.

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12-03-2013, 09:17 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Would I be correct in interpreting 'better' as contributing to the offense? A faster puck carrier would be a huge plus to this team. The trade idea swirling around in my head would be Alex Edler (who, to me, doesn't fit the Tortorella vision) for the Schenns. Next year, roll out the following:
Coburn – Edler
Streit – Gustafsson
Grossmann – XXXXX
It just needs to be better. More offensive, more mobile, more shooting, more scoring.

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12-03-2013, 09:21 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I would hate to break up the only line that works, but I would try Read-Giroux-Vinny and Downie - Couturier - Voracek. That leaves your two fourth lines the same.
Basically.

I think that's their best option right now is to go heavy on the top two lines and leave two fourth lines of dump and chase grinders. I feel like a Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds line can work enough in a limited, and specific role.

Start them in the offensive zone and let them bang an crash around for 30 seconds and then try to get them off the ice before they get scored on.

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12-03-2013, 10:03 AM
  #120
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It is not out of the realm of possibility the flyers go 1-5 with the Red Wings, Stars, Senators, Blackhawks, and Canadians next. Hopefully that will be the wake up call management needs to except this team isn't good enough as currently constructed.

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12-03-2013, 11:27 AM
  #121
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And then what?

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12-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
And then what?
If we get into a situation like going 1-5 in the next six then it's probably time to be very ready to succumb to defeat for the season in all honesty. Can't be dropping games at a really bad rate all the way through the season till the middle'ish of December and expect anything.

This is all hypothetical, but you asked. If it got to that point it's just more seeing if the management can accept that or not which means whether or not they make any trades to make a playoff push, whether or not Holmgren is still here, and if they can actually accept the idea of an actual rebuild.

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12-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
And then what?
Hopefully restructure the team from the back end out. It will require moving forward talent for defense creating holes upfront, but the flyers aren't competing for a cup anyway if they continue to be noncompetitive against any solid defensive team.

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12-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #124
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I agree, I was just hoping you had some ideas in mind. IMO one of Simmonds or Hartnell has to go.

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12-03-2013, 12:01 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Hopefully restructure the team from the back end out. It will require moving forward talent for defense creating holes upfront, but the flyers aren't competing for a cup anyway if they continue to be noncompetitive against any solid defensive team.
Why would they restructure the team from the back end out when they've spent the last two drafts loading up on defensive prospects? I get it that defensemen take longer to hit their primes when compared to forwards, but why do all that? It would create a huge log jam in 2-3 years when guys like Morin or Ghost are ready to contribute at the NHL level. This teams needs a sniper or two in the worst way. That's the glaring issue. Not Grossmann. Not Coburn. Not Schenn, etc.

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