HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Hartnell and Simmonds.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-03-2013, 01:43 PM
  #26
bauer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromster View Post
Hartnell can't fight anywhere close to Simmond's ability, and Simmonds can't agitate anywhere close to Hartnell's ability.

Simmonds had a career high 28 goals and 21 assists for 49 points in 11-12. He is just now entering his prime. Unfortunately he is having an off year, but christ who on this team isn't right now. The dude can skate, he can score, and he is a pretty good fighter. Basically a mini Lucic. You trade FOR guys like that, you don't trade those guys away. No team will give us fair value. Patience is the key.

Trading this guy now is like betting your rent at the craps table. Sure it might work out, but realistically it's probably going to end in sadness.
agree. and does Hartnell even agitate anymore anyway? we rarely see it. Downie does it better. they need to move Hartnell and resign Downie.

bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 02:27 PM
  #27
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
I wonder what team would even what Hartnell for free, with that contract of his.

I also have been very disappointed by Simmonds. His hockey IQ is almost non existant at some points. I would like to keep Simmonds and Hartnell, because I like them as individuals but, they are just not playing good hockey. It also seems like many teams are in love with Wayne Simmonds though. I see his name pop up in dozens of trade proposals, and it seems as though teams would overpay for him. Maybe we could trade Simmonds and Coburn and a pick or two for the 2nd overall pick next year to draft Ekblad. Then we could maybe add a solid defenseman during free agency. Then the only other thing to address would be to bring in a sniper to play with Claude Giroux.

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:13 PM
  #28
Sniped
Snowballs at Santa
 
Sniped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 1,532
vCash: 500
Watching Hartnell or Simmonds skate with the puck through the neutral zone and the occasional dangle from Simmonds is all ugly. One of them has to go.

Sniped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:19 PM
  #29
dats81
Registered User
 
dats81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Carinthia
Country: Austria
Posts: 1,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
I wonder what team would even what Hartnell for free, with that contract of his.

I also have been very disappointed by Simmonds. His hockey IQ is almost non existant at some points. I would like to keep Simmonds and Hartnell, because I like them as individuals but, they are just not playing good hockey. It also seems like many teams are in love with Wayne Simmonds though. I see his name pop up in dozens of trade proposals, and it seems as though teams would overpay for him. Maybe we could trade Simmonds and Coburn and a pick or two for the 2nd overall pick next year to draft Ekblad. Then we could maybe add a solid defenseman during free agency. Then the only other thing to address would be to bring in a sniper to play with Claude Giroux.
I would love to have Ekblad as a future cornerstone of the defense but this move would definitely weaken this team short and mid-term.

They would not have to bother about getting a sniper for G for the next 3-5 years because this would probably mark the earliest term Ekblad and Morin would be ready to shoulder the load on defense. Why overpay for another missing piece now if the team as a whole is not even close to become a contender?

It really sucks that our forward corps and defense are that far apart age-wise.

dats81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:24 PM
  #30
JDinklage Morgoone
Formerly Hextall89
 
JDinklage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 10,347
vCash: 500
If you are saying a team wouldn't take Hartnell for free, you're wrong.

__________________
"People usually get what's coming to them, unless it has been mailed."
-Fred Shero
JDinklage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:31 PM
  #31
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 9,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
If you are saying a team wouldn't take Hartnell for free, you're wrong.
You are right..the Flyers should ask him if he will allow them to terminate his contract and work as a free "intern". Win-win!

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:32 PM
  #32
OgbertTheNerd
what
 
OgbertTheNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
If you are saying a team wouldn't take Hartnell for free, you're wrong.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. If a team is willing to give 29 year old David Clarkson $5+ million dollars while only scoring a career best 46 points, I'm sure someone would be more than happy to have Hartnell. Teams want "toughness" and "skill", hopefully teams out there think Hartnell has both.

OgbertTheNerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:35 PM
  #33
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I would love to have Ekblad as a future cornerstone of the defense but this move would definitely weaken this team short and mid-term.

They would not have to bother about getting a sniper for G for the next 3-5 years because this would probably mark the earliest term Ekblad and Morin would be ready to shoulder the load on defense. Why overpay for another missing piece now if the team as a whole is not even close to become a contender?

It really sucks that our forward corps and defense are that far apart age-wise.
IMO I would trade them while their value is high. Don't get me wrong I love Simmonds, but I have seen nothing that would make me think he can be a solid winger for the next 4-5 years for the Flyers.

The same goes for Coburn, his value is very high right now and probably will remain high till the end of the season. I have heard that Coburn could fetch you a decent mid-range first round pick. Simmonds could also fetch you a mid-first round pick at best. If you could couple them in a trade with a 1st round pick possibly we can get a true franchise defenseman, which can not be undervalued. Also if the Flyers are not in contention for a playoff spot come the trade deadline, Timonen may waive his NTC, and he could also fetch a first rounder.

We will lose Timonen, and Meszaros next year so assuming the Flyers trade Coburn, they will need to fill 3 roster spots. Gustafsson and Ekblad should be able to fill a spot, then we could pick up a free agent defenseman like Girardi or Pitkanen. So it is possible our d could look like this next year

Pitkanen - Streit
Schenn - Ekblad
Grossmann - Gustafsson

It definitely could be better but, the future would look bright on D, with Morin, Hagg and Ghost waiting in the wings.

We still may have enough cap room to pick up a decent sniper, but nothing to really supplement Giroux on that first line. We just have to hope that some of our players namely, Voracek and Read step up to be first line players.

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:38 PM
  #34
JDinklage Morgoone
Formerly Hextall89
 
JDinklage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 10,347
vCash: 500
I shy away from Joni. Who knows what he will be when he comes back from that injury.

JDinklage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #35
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,858
vCash: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I shy away from Joni. Who knows what he will be when he comes back from that injury.
Maybe never. Not a great injury to have really. Depending on how bad the break/shatter was and how it is healing walking without pain could be about the best thing for him in terms of recovery. Hopefully he can come back though, always liked him.

Appleyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 03:55 PM
  #36
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 9,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
IMO I would trade them while their value is high. Don't get me wrong I love Simmonds, but I have seen nothing that would make me think he can be a solid winger for the next 4-5 years for the Flyers.

The same goes for Coburn, his value is very high right now and probably will remain high till the end of the season. I have heard that Coburn could fetch you a decent mid-range first round pick. Simmonds could also fetch you a mid-first round pick at best. If you could couple them in a trade with a 1st round pick possibly we can get a true franchise defenseman, which can not be undervalued. Also if the Flyers are not in contention for a playoff spot come the trade deadline, Timonen may waive his NTC, and he could also fetch a first rounder.

We will lose Timonen, and Meszaros next year so assuming the Flyers trade Coburn, they will need to fill 3 roster spots. Gustafsson and Ekblad should be able to fill a spot, then we could pick up a free agent defenseman like Girardi or Pitkanen. So it is possible our d could look like this next year

Pitkanen - Streit
Schenn - Ekblad
Grossmann - Gustafsson

It definitely could be better but, the future would look bright on D, with Morin, Hagg and Ghost waiting in the wings.

We still may have enough cap room to pick up a decent sniper, but nothing to really supplement Giroux on that first line. We just have to hope that some of our players namely, Voracek and Read step up to be first line players.
Again with the Coburn trade talk.....Coburn is not a problem. What is around him is a bigger problem. If you trade Coburn you better get a dman that can play 25 mins per game and sometimes 28 to 30 mins..preferably with more offense. Good luck...like people say..you have to draft and develop one of those otherwise it will cost you an arm and a leg..or an eye in Pronger's case

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 06:38 PM
  #37
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Again with the Coburn trade talk.....Coburn is not a problem. What is around him is a bigger problem. If you trade Coburn you better get a dman that can play 25 mins per game and sometimes 28 to 30 mins..preferably with more offense. Good luck...like people say..you have to draft and develop one of those otherwise it will cost you an arm and a leg..or an eye in Pronger's case
This will not be during the regular season. It would be pointless to trade Coburn before the deadline. And the reason we would trade Coburn, is because he is playing well. His value is at very high and instead of staying mediocre we can use Coburn, to get younger and better. I personally would attempt to trade Coburn and another player and possible a pick in order to get Ekblad in the draft. If Ekblad can play at a similar level to Seth Jones in his rookie season, the Flyers would forget they even had Brayden Coburn.

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 06:41 PM
  #38
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I shy away from Joni. Who knows what he will be when he comes back from that injury.
Well his value will drop significantly. It is a risk but, if he recovers fully from his injury it will be a fantastic movie. I would not mind giving him a 3-4 year contract for 4-5.5 million.

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #39
Cromster
Registered User
 
Cromster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New London, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
This will not be during the regular season. It would be pointless to trade Coburn before the deadline. And the reason we would trade Coburn, is because he is playing well. His value is at very high and instead of staying mediocre we can use Coburn, to get younger and better. I personally would attempt to trade Coburn and another player and possible a pick in order to get Ekblad in the draft. If Ekblad can play at a similar level to Seth Jones in his rookie season, the Flyers would forget they even had Brayden Coburn.
You're trading 2 roster players. One of which can eat 30 minutes a game. Who you planning to replace these guys with? Hal Gil and Raffle? Finally getting a stud D prospect is an appealing thought, but i don't think you're going to get that pick with Coburn plus player x plus a possible pick.

Cromster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #40
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
This will not be during the regular season. It would be pointless to trade Coburn before the deadline. And the reason we would trade Coburn, is because he is playing well. His value is at very high and instead of staying mediocre we can use Coburn, to get younger and better. I personally would attempt to trade Coburn and another player and possible a pick in order to get Ekblad in the draft. If Ekblad can play at a similar level to Seth Jones in his rookie season, the Flyers would forget they even had Brayden Coburn.
Ekblad isn't on Jones level. Jones is playing really well right now but there's still a good chunk of the season left, he could come back down to earth soon & that would be totally fine by the way because he's exceeding expectations right now.

Counting on an 18 year old defensemen to play 20 minutes a night is a big time risk because it's pretty uncommon.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 12-03-2013 at 07:40 PM.
LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 07:12 PM
  #41
Zod
Registered User
 
Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 239
vCash: 500
We're not bad enough to land Ekblad outright and trading up that high'll really hurt.

If we end up with a high-ish pick, I'd rather just aim for a winger. Could go for Draisaitl, or it'd be nice to pick up Kapanen. Both look like skilled wingers, and it'd be nice to restock that side of the pool.

Zod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 07:41 PM
  #42
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Ekblad isn't on Jones level.
I would argue otherwise. I watched Seth Jones when he was on the Winterhawks and I am watching Ekblad now on the colts, and I firmly believe that Ekblad is better than Seth Jones was a year ago. Offensively they put up similar numbers and maybe Jones is slightly better on D. But Jones was on a far better team than Ekblad is currently. I think Jones might be slightly better but, Ekblad is certainly not far off.

Both players are expected to be top tier defenseman in the NHL, and the Flyers need a top defenseman in the worst way.

Yet again the Flyers also need a solid winger to play alongside Claude. It should be a tough decision come draft day.

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 07:45 PM
  #43
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod View Post
We're not bad enough to land Ekblad outright and trading up that high'll really hurt.

If we end up with a high-ish pick, I'd rather just aim for a winger. Could go for Draisaitl, or it'd be nice to pick up Kapanen. Both look like skilled wingers, and it'd be nice to restock that side of the pool.
We probably are not bad enough to get Draisaitl either. It seems like he is slated to go somewhere around 4-8. Kapanen we could pick up, but either way the Flyers defense needs a drastic make over and they also need some top tier wingers. I personally expect Holmgren to make a very rash move on draft day and the draft being in Philly might enthuse him to make said decision.

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 07:49 PM
  #44
sobrien
Oshie Hipster
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,332
vCash: 500
Hate to say I told ya so, but I was vehemently against Simmonds and Hartnell on the same PP. While Hartnell can shoot, he's still a power forward, as is Simmonds. Why put them together on the same unit and waste Schenn on the 2nd?

I have also been very outspoken about how overrated Simmonds is/was on our boards and on the trade boards. He's willing to go to the dirty areas, pick up scrap goals, hit, fight, and can skate well. He's not a shooter and not a passer, and I feel that hinders some of the lines he's on.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 07:51 PM
  #45
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
I would argue otherwise. I watched Seth Jones when he was on the Winterhawks and I am watching Ekblad now on the colts, and I firmly believe that Ekblad is better than Seth Jones was a year ago. Offensively they put up similar numbers and maybe Jones is slightly better on D. But Jones was on a far better team than Ekblad is currently. I think Jones might be slightly better but, Ekblad is certainly not far off.

Both players are expected to be top tier defenseman in the NHL, and the Flyers need a top defenseman in the worst way.

Yet again the Flyers also need a solid winger to play alongside Claude. It should be a tough decision come draft day.
I disagree with your assessment on Ekblad but that's besides the point.

The Flyers don't need necessarily need a #1, would it help sure but it's not the end all of end all's like many around here make it out to be. The Flyers just need a better mix of defensemen & not all stay home guys.

I would be willing to part with Coburn but not for picks & prospects. If you part with him in a deal that can bring us back a defensemen that brings a different element to our backend that Coburn cannot & still eat 20:00-25:00 a night than I'm willing to move him.

Hell I wouldn't even be opposed to moving our first rounder for this year off the simple fact that this upcoming draft isn't exactly a great one.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 07:58 PM
  #46
ICAPNASTYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 101
vCash: 50
I think Simmonds skates like a new born baby deer.

ICAPNASTYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 08:00 PM
  #47
sobrien
Oshie Hipster
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
I think Simmonds skates like a new born baby deer.
That's about how big his legs are.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 08:04 PM
  #48
Tpinheiro4
Registered User
 
Tpinheiro4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I disagree with your assessment on Ekblad but that's besides the point.

The Flyers don't need necessarily need a #1, would it help sure but it's not the end all of end all's like many around here make it out to be. The Flyers just need a better mix of defensemen & not all stay home guys.

I would be willing to part with Coburn but not for picks & prospects. If you part with him in a deal that can bring us back a defensemen that brings a different element to our backend that Coburn cannot & still eat 20:00-25:00 a night than I'm willing to move him.

Hell I wouldn't even be opposed to moving our first rounder for this year off the simple fact that this upcoming draft isn't exactly a great one.
That is just my perspective about Ekblad, and I could see him develop nicely into a Pietrangelo type defenseman.

I would not be opposed to trading Coburn and our pick for a defenseman, but what defenseman can we get with a package like that?

Tpinheiro4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 01:30 AM
  #49
dats81
Registered User
 
dats81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Carinthia
Country: Austria
Posts: 1,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I shy away from Joni. Who knows what he will be when he comes back from that injury.
And Joni will shy away from Philly. He hated it here

In general I would not expect any high quality defensemen to hit free agency. More like last year an aging second pairing role player like Streit will be the best they could possible find there.

dats81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 05:30 AM
  #50
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
In general I would not expect any high quality defensemen to hit free agency. More like last year an aging second pairing role player like Streit will be the best they could possible find there.
The only way the Flyers will improve their defense is thru the draft or trade. Since no team is moving an established PMD at the NHL level, they have to get guys before they hit. Young struggling NHLers like Justin Schultz or Mark Psyk who are just starting out or NHL ready guys in the AHL like Beaulieu, Gormley, or Kleftbom. Nick Leddy was struggling last year and was reported to be available and on these boards there was a rumor of a Krug for Briere deal with Boston. Imagine where the defense corp would be with one of them today.

Psuhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.