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MLB Discussion Thread, Part II: Yanks pay Ellsbury

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:26 AM
  #776
RGY
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Originally Posted by Callahan Auto View Post
Ellsbury is an ideal replacement for Jeter batting in the 2 spot, as well as a fantastic lead off batter. I'd keep Gardner in the leadoff spot because his OBP is higher and Ellsbury puts the ball into play as well as anyone. Gardner gets on base and Ellsbury is likely to advance him. The short porch in left at YS is going to be Jacoby's new best friend.

Also, an outfield defense of Gardner/Ellsbury/Ichiro/Soriano might be the best in the league. Speed everywhere that should save some runs over the course of the year.

The money is crazy but it's not mine to spend. 22 a year for 7 years isn't ideal (5 years at 18 would be a steal) but it's not that insane of an overpayment if Ellsbury can stay healthy. That's a big if but I have some faith considering his injuries were freak accidents. If you resign Cano, the Yankees lineup is back to being the best in the league, though dominated by lefthanded bats.
As much sense it may make, Jeter will stay in the top of that lineup. The only way he doesn't is if Cano doesn't come back, Ellsbury moves into the 3rd spot with Gardner and Jeter going 1-2.

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12-04-2013, 02:35 AM
  #777
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I like the move... Unfortunately, Yanks cant rely on Jeter anymore.. They needed a leadoff or number 2 hitter in the lineup to replace him. I like the idea of having both Ellsbury and Gardner in the lineup. Adding Mccann, hopefully resigning Cano and getting Teixeira back healthy I think the yanks will have more than enough home run power in the lineup that they can afford having 2 speed guys in the outfield.

And Cano is an idiot for firing Boras. Say what you want about Boras but he is a great agent.


Last edited by XLJ: 12-04-2013 at 02:47 AM.
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12-04-2013, 02:45 AM
  #778
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If Yankees bring back Cano it's almost a lock that Jeter will hit 2nd simply to have L/R/L in top-3. Ellsbury has bit of pop so he could play down in the lineup.

Something along these lines:

Gardner (L)
Jeter (R)
Cano (L)
Teixeira (S)
Soriano (R)
Ellsbury (L)
McCann (L)
Suzuki (L)

It's a good problem to have with Jeter/Ellsbury/Gardner all vying for top-2 spots.

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12-04-2013, 02:46 AM
  #779
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If Cano doesn't come back you could go with:

Gardner
Jeter
Ellsbury

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Old
12-04-2013, 03:28 AM
  #780
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I'd prefer:

(against RHP)-------------(against LHP)

Gardner-------------------Ellsbury
Ellsbury-------------------Jeter
Cano----------------------Cano
Tex-----------------------Tex
McCann-------------------Soriano
Soriano-------------------McCann
Jeter---------------------Reynolds
Johnson-------------------Ichiro/Wells
Ichiro---------------------Gardner/Ichiro

That lineup is absolutely devastating against RHP. If you get A-Rod back to replace Reynolds/Kelly Johnson, it gets pretty crazy. Jeter will definitely be in the 2 spot if he's healthy... I just have less problems switching things up than an MLB manager would.

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12-04-2013, 07:45 AM
  #781
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The Yankees are a joke. They mismanage the team but they always have their money to bail them out. Their minor league system stinks. Most Yankee fans are counting the years until the Tex,CC and AROD contracts are off the books and they plop more long-term deals on the team. They didn't bid for Darvish two years ago because they were concerned about the posting fee and then giving the player $50M-$60M. They were counting on their young pitchers like Baneulos and Betances. Later Cashman traded for Pineda. None of those guys had made any impact. Two of them suffered significant arm injuries. Two years later,they are waiting for Tanaka to be posted. He isn't as good as Darvish and he will cost more. Hal Steinbrenner spent two years talking about $189M. They didn't sign any players except for Ichiro past 2013. They didn't re-sign Martin. Didn't re-sign Swisher because $189M. In that $189M,$10M-$11M goes towards player benefits. Its really $178M-$179M. Leave $3M-$5M for in season player moves. $173M-$175M on player costs to start the season. They better hope the AROD suspension is upheld. They have a huge offer out to Kuroda. They want Tanaka. The posting fee doesn't count against the luxury tax. Maybe the Yankees have given up on him. Many teams will be bidding on him. Gardner and Robertson are ARB3 guys. $189M? They need to fill out the 25 player roster. All of the money will tied up in small group of players. Look at their pitching. CC. Nova. Anyone else?

Another old and expensive team.

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12-04-2013, 07:59 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Yankees are a joke. They mismanage the team but they always have their money to bail them out. Their minor league system stinks. Most Yankee fans are counting the years until the Tex,CC and AROD contracts are off the books and they plop more long-term deals on the team. They didn't bid for Darvish two years ago because they were concerned about the posting fee and then giving the player $50M-$60M. They were counting on their young pitchers like Baneulos and Betances. Later Cashman traded for Pineda. None of those guys had made any impact. Two of them suffered significant arm injuries. Two years later,they are waiting for Tanaka to be posted. He isn't as good as Darvish and he will cost more. Hal Steinbrenner spent two years talking about $189M. They didn't sign any players except for Ichiro past 2013. They didn't re-sign Martin. Didn't re-sign Swisher because $189M. In that $189M,$10M-$11M goes towards player benefits. Its really $178M-$179M. Leave $3M-$5M for in season player moves. $173M-$175M on player costs to start the season. They better hope the AROD suspension is upheld. They have a huge offer out to Kuroda. They want Tanaka. The posting fee doesn't count against the luxury tax. Maybe the Yankees have given up on him. Many teams will be bidding on him. Gardner and Robertson are ARB3 guys. $189M? They need to fill out the 25 player roster. All of the money will tied up in small group of players. Look at their pitching. CC. Nova. Anyone else?

Another old and expensive team.
You forgot the icing on the cake. Thanks to changes in the new CBA, rather than McCann and Ellsbury losing them their first and second round picks, they now lose their first rounder and one of the sandwich round comp picks they would've landed with the departure of Granderson, Cano, or Kuroda. Since Kuroda's not likely to sign with a non-Yankees MLB team, the only way the Yankees pick as high as the 30s or 40s is if they lose Cano.

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Old
12-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #783
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I dont consider Ellsbury or Mccann "old" right now.. towards the end? sure.. right now both are in their prime

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12-04-2013, 09:43 AM
  #784
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There is no way in hell 189 is happening Rangerboy

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12-04-2013, 09:46 AM
  #785
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I like both signings.

I have been clamoring for more speed and diversity in this line-up as far as more than just hitting home runs. Ellsbury will help with that. Gardner and Ellsbury is a good 1-2 punch moving forward.

McCann is a good catcher and game caller as well. I like both signings.

Both hit well all over the ballpark as well. No more of this home-run or nothing crap we saw from ARod and Texeira for years.

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12-04-2013, 09:52 AM
  #786
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I like both signings.

I have been clamoring for more speed and diversity in this line-up as far as more than just hitting home runs. Ellsbury will help with that. Gardner and Ellsbury is a good 1-2 punch moving forward.

McCann is a good catcher and game caller as well. I like both signings.

Both hit well all over the ballpark as well. No more of this home-run or nothing crap we saw from ARod and Texeira for years.
Ellsbury is going to be a disaster as he gets into his mid-30's as most speedsters are. These long-term commitments to free agents are albatrosses.

These Yankees need to get their **** straight. The building up of the farm system, which Cashman was so adamant about when he gained organizational control, has been an abject failure.

They also need to be really, really careful here. Marketable stars like Jeter (and trainwrecks like A-Rod) were guys that get people in seats. McCann, Ellsbury, Cano (if they re-sign him)??? Not so much.

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12-04-2013, 10:01 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Yankees are a joke. They mismanage the team but they always have their money to bail them out. Their minor league system stinks. Most Yankee fans are counting the years until the Tex,CC and AROD contracts are off the books and they plop more long-term deals on the team. They didn't bid for Darvish two years ago because they were concerned about the posting fee and then giving the player $50M-$60M. They were counting on their young pitchers like Baneulos and Betances. Later Cashman traded for Pineda. None of those guys had made any impact. Two of them suffered significant arm injuries. Two years later,they are waiting for Tanaka to be posted. He isn't as good as Darvish and he will cost more. Hal Steinbrenner spent two years talking about $189M. They didn't sign any players except for Ichiro past 2013. They didn't re-sign Martin. Didn't re-sign Swisher because $189M. In that $189M,$10M-$11M goes towards player benefits. Its really $178M-$179M. Leave $3M-$5M for in season player moves. $173M-$175M on player costs to start the season. They better hope the AROD suspension is upheld. They have a huge offer out to Kuroda. They want Tanaka. The posting fee doesn't count against the luxury tax. Maybe the Yankees have given up on him. Many teams will be bidding on him. Gardner and Robertson are ARB3 guys. $189M? They need to fill out the 25 player roster. All of the money will tied up in small group of players. Look at their pitching. CC. Nova. Anyone else?

Another old and expensive team.
It's embarrassing. All that talk about and preparation for the $189M goes down the drain. If the Yankees had a better farm system, they wouldn't have to fill all these holes through free agency. I used to try to counteract the arguments about the Yankees attempts to buy championships by pointing out how many homegrown players are on the roster, but it gets harder to do that each year.

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Old
12-04-2013, 10:02 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ellsbury is going to be a disaster as he gets into his mid-30's as most speedsters are. These long-term commitments to free agents are albatrosses.

These Yankees need to get their **** straight. The building up of the farm system, which Cashman was so adamant about when he gained organizational control, has been an abject failure.

They also need to be really, really careful here. Marketable stars like Jeter (and trainwrecks like A-Rod) were guys that get people in seats. McCann, Ellsbury, Cano (if they re-sign him)??? Not so much.
I agree with the farm system, but bringing in players who can add offense in multiple ways is a good thing. It has been too long that the Yankees have relied solely on the long-ball. Boring baseball.

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12-04-2013, 10:02 AM
  #789
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I bet this was a Levine deal.

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Old
12-04-2013, 10:22 AM
  #790
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I agree with the farm system, but bringing in players who can add offense in multiple ways is a good thing. It has been too long that the Yankees have relied solely on the long-ball. Boring baseball.
They should not be paying players 7 years/$153M for this stuff. Period.

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12-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #791
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Rumors suggesting Gardner could be dealt now ...

I could only see that if they go HAM & signed Beltran too?


Last edited by NYGBleedBlueNYR: 12-04-2013 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old
12-04-2013, 10:59 AM
  #792
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who is HAM?

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12-04-2013, 11:05 AM
  #793
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who is HAM?
They're going to sign a Ham sandwich next for $2M

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12-04-2013, 11:15 AM
  #794
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The only adv the Yankees have is money, they should use it. They dont suck bad enough to get high draft picks, mlb has put a cap on what they can spend on IFA in a year now, and now everything mlb is negotiating in the new process for posting fees is specifically designed to keep Tanaka from the Yankees, so u know what screw them and I dont think they are done

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12-04-2013, 11:44 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Yankees are a joke. They mismanage the team but they always have their money to bail them out. Their minor league system stinks. Most Yankee fans are counting the years until the Tex,CC and AROD contracts are off the books and they plop more long-term deals on the team. They didn't bid for Darvish two years ago because they were concerned about the posting fee and then giving the player $50M-$60M. They were counting on their young pitchers like Baneulos and Betances. Later Cashman traded for Pineda. None of those guys had made any impact. Two of them suffered significant arm injuries. Two years later,they are waiting for Tanaka to be posted. He isn't as good as Darvish and he will cost more. Hal Steinbrenner spent two years talking about $189M. They didn't sign any players except for Ichiro past 2013. They didn't re-sign Martin. Didn't re-sign Swisher because $189M. In that $189M,$10M-$11M goes towards player benefits. Its really $178M-$179M. Leave $3M-$5M for in season player moves. $173M-$175M on player costs to start the season. They better hope the AROD suspension is upheld. They have a huge offer out to Kuroda. They want Tanaka. The posting fee doesn't count against the luxury tax. Maybe the Yankees have given up on him. Many teams will be bidding on him. Gardner and Robertson are ARB3 guys. $189M? They need to fill out the 25 player roster. All of the money will tied up in small group of players. Look at their pitching. CC. Nova. Anyone else?

Another old and expensive team.

Doesn't matter. Once they miss the playoffs, all hell breaks loose.

They went on a spending spree after 08 too.

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12-04-2013, 11:56 AM
  #796
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Rumors suggesting Gardner could be dealt now ...

I could only see that if they go HAM & signed Beltran too?
It would be a mistake to trade Gardner imo. Yanks other outfielders are aging players like ichiro, wells and soriano.

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12-04-2013, 11:59 AM
  #797
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It would be a mistake to trade Gardner imo. Yanks other outfielders are aging players like ichiro, wells and soriano.

I doubt it, but Tyler Austin could be an option mid-late season.

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12-04-2013, 01:25 PM
  #798
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The Yankee by missing the PS, last year alone cost them almost 30M, let alone the drop in attendance and ratings.. Hal will save more in the long run by putting a team people want to go watch and see on the field then he will saving money getting under 189

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12-04-2013, 01:25 PM
  #799
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They are trying to strangle the Yankees through the draft rules and international player rules and that luxury tax. I say the Yankees BUY EVERYONE now. And the owners of the other teams can take that luxury tax and overpay for bad players or just keep it.

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12-04-2013, 01:29 PM
  #800
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They are trying to strangle the Yankees through the draft rules and international player rules and that luxury tax. I say the Yankees BUY EVERYONE now. And the owners of the other teams can take that luxury tax and overpay for bad players or just keep it.
how about the maximum 20M bid request to NPB for the posting process? They are trying everything possible to keep him from the Yankees

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