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Old
12-03-2013, 09:52 PM
  #526
healthyscratch
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What do you guys think about re-signing Ibanez? I mean he's only 42 and can probably still play LF once a month. Whattaya's think, 3/36 sound good?

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12-03-2013, 09:55 PM
  #527
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What do you guys think about re-signing Ibanez? I mean he's only 42 and can probably still play LF once a month. Whattaya's think, 3/36 sound good?
No way he accepts that low ball offer.

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12-03-2013, 09:56 PM
  #528
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12-03-2013, 10:00 PM
  #529
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What do you guys think about re-signing Ibanez? I mean he's only 42 and can probably still play LF once a month. Whattaya's think, 3/36 sound good?
Future Hall of Famer Raul Ibanez?

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12-03-2013, 11:02 PM
  #530
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Phillies have acquired RHP Brad Lincoln from Blue Jays in exchange for catcher Erik Kratz and LHP Rob Rasmussen.

Don't know anything about Lincoln. Is this a good trade?

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12-03-2013, 11:13 PM
  #531
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Todd Zolecki @ToddZolecki
Phillies have acquired RHP Brad Lincoln from Blue Jays in exchange for catcher Erik Kratz and LHP Rob Rasmussen.

Don't know anything about Lincoln. Is this a good trade?
I think he got demoted a couple of times last year. Sounds like he'll fit right in with the rest of the bullpen.

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12-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #532
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He can hit!!! Guess Nieves was a big league deal.
Well, Brad Lincoln stinks, but he did have a good year in 2012. Last year he only struck out 7 batters per nine IP and walked 6.

The Phils didn't give up much here but it still seems like they overpaid. I don't mind losing Kratz too much though because I was hoping Rupp could take over the backup C duties anyway. I guess it's between him and Nieves now.

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12-04-2013, 01:12 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Todd Zolecki @ToddZolecki
Phillies have acquired RHP Brad Lincoln from Blue Jays in exchange for catcher Erik Kratz and LHP Rob Rasmussen.

Don't know anything about Lincoln. Is this a good trade?
If I'm thinking of the right guy, had an insanely high ceiling as a Pirates prospect. Fizzled a bit and became a bullpen guy. Might have been signed as a project for the rotation, but bullpen for now.

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12-04-2013, 08:27 AM
  #534
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Ellsbury 7 years 151M.

21M a year for a by the book mediocre centerfielder....who is also 30 years old.

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12-04-2013, 08:51 AM
  #535
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Ellsbury 7 years 151M.

21M a year for a by the book mediocre centerfielder....who is also 30 years old.
I don't think Ellsbury is mediocre... I think he's a great player but he's got horrible injury problems. That's a hell of a contract to a guy who may not play a lot of games.

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12-04-2013, 09:03 AM
  #536
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I don't think Ellsbury is mediocre... I think he's a great player but he's got horrible injury problems. That's a hell of a contract to a guy who may not play a lot of games.

He's a career .779 OPS player....and in the 4 seasons he played over 130 games, he has only one good year. So basically he's played 7 season, 4 only close to full and out of those 4, 1 good one.

Yea, definitely a 150M dollar player

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12-04-2013, 09:07 AM
  #537
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He's a career .779 OPS player....and in the 4 seasons he played over 130 games, he has only one good year. So basically he's played 7 season, 4 only close to full and out of those 4, 1 good one.

Yea, definitely a 150M dollar player
I didn't say I agree with that much money. There is a middle ground between mediocre and 22m a year player. I think he falls more in the middle of those two than either pole. Again, he's got ridiculous injury problems and I wouldn't have signed him to anything close to what he got as a GM.

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12-04-2013, 09:10 AM
  #538
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He's a career .779 OPS player....and in the 4 seasons he played over 130 games, he has only one good year. So basically he's played 7 season, 4 only close to full and out of those 4, 1 good one.

Yea, definitely a 150M dollar player
Meh, his advanced statistics put him as one of the better players in baseball. Over his last 3 seasons, his WAR was 8, 1, 5.8.

That said, you overpay in free agency. It's an absolute given. You are paying for past performance as opposed to predicted performance over the life of the contract. Based upon that premise, 95% of free agent signings, particularly of star players, are horrendous, but when weighing such deals against one another, this is hardly the worst out there imo.

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12-04-2013, 09:15 AM
  #539
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Meh, his advanced statistics put him as one of the better players in baseball. Over his last 3 seasons, his WAR was 8, 1, 5.8.

That said, you overpay in free agency. It's an absolute given. You are paying for past performance as opposed to predicted performance over the life of the contract. Based upon that premise, 95% of free agent signings, particularly of star players, are horrendous, but when weighing such deals against one another, this is hardly the worst out there imo.
Advanced stats are used to help find good deals. Not pay somebody 21M

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12-04-2013, 09:16 AM
  #540
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I didn't say I agree with that much money. There is a middle ground between mediocre and 22m a year player. I think he falls more in the middle of those two than either pole. Again, he's got ridiculous injury problems and I wouldn't have signed him to anything close to what he got as a GM.
You said he's a great player. Great players are consistent and at the top of their game for long periods. This guy has pretty much done nothing except for 1 fluke year.

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12-04-2013, 09:24 AM
  #541
JDinkalage Morgoone
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You said he's a great player. Great players are consistent and at the top of their game for long periods. This guy has pretty much done nothing except for 1 fluke year.
When I said great player, I meant he is an above average player and if healthy will produce. I didn't say he was elite. I just clarified what I meant in my above post, I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

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12-04-2013, 09:31 AM
  #542
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When I said great player, I meant he is an above average player and if healthy will produce. I didn't say he was elite. I just clarified what I meant in my above post, I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.
Well that might be accurate. I think I'm annoyed because I wouldn't have minded Ellsbury in Philly, even though I know Amaro wasn't going to spend more than 7 nickels this offseason. But when guys like that guy 150M, it flat out kills FA. I know you overpay in Free Agency, but at this point, it looks like Marlon Byrd is fair market value and the guy is a 36 year old PED user

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12-04-2013, 09:32 AM
  #543
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This article sums up a lot of my frustrations with the Mayberry and Frandsen tenders: http://philliesnation.com/archives/2...inding-upside/. These are dime a dozen players who have been regressing and are 30. Bringing these guys back for that money shows a lack of vision and understanding of their real value. They can't really hit, their defense is "meh" or worse, and there are either replacements you could use in your system that are cheaper or other players out there that are available.

Is it big money? No, it's not. But it's two 40 man slots used on worthless slugs who could be better replaced with lower cost, higher ceiling players. It also shows Amaro still doesn't get what he's doing wrong. "Never any thought of not tendering"...WTF is wrong with you Ruben?!?!

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12-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #544
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Well that might be accurate. I think I'm annoyed because I wouldn't have minded Ellsbury in Philly, even though I know Amaro wasn't going to spend more than 7 nickels this offseason. But when guys like that guy 150M, it flat out kills FA. I know you overpay in Free Agency, but at this point, it looks like Marlon Byrd is fair market value and the guy is a 36 year old PED user
Honestly, what did you think Elsbury was going to sign for? This is pretty much market value in free agency for a player like him. Cano will get closer to 200 million in spite of being a year older than Elsbury.

You did see what Pujols got paid, right? Hamilton?

When All Star caliber players make it to free agency, you WILL pay more than they are worth. Pretty simple. Scott Kazmir just got someone to pay him $22 million. 22. That is all you need to know about free agency.

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12-04-2013, 09:45 AM
  #545
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Baseball is going to crash and burn from these contracts one day.

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12-04-2013, 09:57 AM
  #546
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He's an All-Star caliber player?

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12-04-2013, 10:00 AM
  #547
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Baseball is going to crash and burn from these contracts one day.
How do you figure?

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12-04-2013, 10:23 PM
  #548
zarley zelepukin
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Honestly, what did you think Elsbury was going to sign for? This is pretty much market value in free agency for a player like him. Cano will get closer to 200 million in spite of being a year older than Elsbury.

You did see what Pujols got paid, right? Hamilton?

When All Star caliber players make it to free agency, you WILL pay more than they are worth. Pretty simple. Scott Kazmir just got someone to pay him $22 million. 22. That is all you need to know about free agency.
This. Like I said when we signed Byrd, his salary is fair value. And for Ellsbury, he's coming off a 6 WAR season and he had a 9 WAR season two years ago. He's an injury concern but that's a high impact player when he's healthy.

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12-05-2013, 10:09 AM
  #549
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I don't care what you think fair is, he is not a $150m player. That is a horrible contract. He had one great year where he hit half of his career HR's...I'm sure that wasn't a fluke..

He was tied for 65th last year in Wrc+ with other $100m+ players Chase Headley, Chris Carter, and Kyle Seager.

His wOBA was better, 54th, and sandwich between such stars as Will Venable and Starling Marte, as was his OPS among OF's.

He's also now on the wrong side of 30 with one good season, and one fluke season under his belt. That is not a $150m player. If that's a $150m than we all have got to be worth a couple hundred K, right?


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12-05-2013, 11:49 AM
  #550
JDinkalage Morgoone
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I don't care what you think fair is, he is not a $150m player. That is a horrible contract. He had one great year where he hit half of his career HR's...I'm sure that wasn't a fluke..

He was tied for 65th last year in Wrc+ with other $100m+ players Chase Headley, Chris Carter, and Kyle Seager.

His wOBA was better, 54th, and sandwich between such stars as Will Venable and Starling Marte, as was his OPS among OF's.

He's also now on the wrong side of 30 with one good season, and one fluke season under his belt. That is not a $150m player. If that's a $150m than we all have got to be worth a couple hundred K, right?
Well let's just be happy it wasn't the Phillies.

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