HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Flyers put the "O" in Woeful (Offense)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-03-2013, 11:05 AM
  #1
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,145
vCash: 500
The Flyers put the "O" in Woeful (Offense)

Thought Bill in todays post dissected it well..thanks Bill

Discuss Bill's half dozen and the other half dozen or more reasons why the Flyers are one of the worst offensive teams in the league..

I'm sure Hartnell and Simmonds' names will come up a lot....interesting how Bill targeted Wayne over Hartnell....


Quote:
Here are a half-dozen interrelated reasons why the Flyers are one of the worst offensive teams in the NHL this season:

1. Breakouts are often laborious.The Flyers are plagued by errant passing, especially from defensemen to forwards, and by forwards who become stationary rather than moving their feet. The team fails to clear its own zone too often under even moderate forechecking pressure and takes too many needless icings. Additionally, too many would-be rushes go offside or, worse, end up as turnovers between the bluelines and potential counterattacking chances for opponents.

2. Can't carry pucks in, can't dump in and retrieve. The Flyers often have trouble navigating the puck over the blueline. When they attempt to dump pucks behind the net, the opposing defense or goalie often gets to them first and the opposition breakouts are all too easy. It is the rare night when the Flyers string together multiple consecutive shifts of good forechecking pressure or even have more than a couple sustained cycling shifts to wear down the opposing team.

3. Too many perimeter shots, not enough rebounds. Even on nights where the Flyers generate a healthy number of total shots, the shot quality is often lacking. Opposing teams give up the perimeter and there are too many one-and-done rushes where there is no rebound opportunity or rebounds are easily steered to the corners and then cleared.

4. The offensive puck support is often poor as a team. The Flyers have reverted to losing the majority of the battles along the walls. This has been especially true in the offensive zone, where the Flyers' forechecking work has frequently been subpar. Again, when you can't carry the puck into the offensive zone and you can't get the disc in deep and then retrieve it by winning the battles in the trenches, there won't be enough puck possession time to generate scoring chances.

5. Shot attempts do not get through traffic. For all the talk about the number of Flyers shots from good shooting range that miss the net, an equal concern from my standpoint is the team's inability to get the puck to the net in the first place rather than having them blocked down by opposing teams.

6. No one consistently and effectively crashes the net. The Flyers play too much of a perimeter game much of the time. They talk the talk about scoring "greasy" goals off deflections, rebounds and loose puck scrambles in close but even when they manage to get the pucks to the vicinity of the net, the Flyers attackers too often get boxed out or their stick gets neutralized. Players like Wayne Simmonds do go to the net but often end up either in too close to get to pucks or otherwise fail to claim the puck and stash it home.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...-Woes/45/56151


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 12-03-2013 at 11:33 AM.
FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #2
BillDineen
Registered User
 
BillDineen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
On 2.:

Couturier's line has done well at carrying the puck and dumping it in.

Giroux and Voracek can both carry the puck into the zone, but both have been making horrid low percentage passes of late. Hartnell does not appear to be a top 6 player any longer.

Vinny is not fast enough to carry it into the zone, so they have to rely on dump and chase. Problem there obviously is B.Schenn and Simmonds unable to get the puck often enough to cycle. B.Schenn is basically no good at anything involving the puck on his stick for more than a second. Simmonds is effective at times on the forecheck, but not consistently.

BillDineen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #3
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,705
vCash: 500
It's not a surprise that our breakouts don't tend to be very clean or fast when we only have two D capable of playing that kind of game with one being near retirement and the other being Streit. At even strength Hartnell and Simmonds tend to be pretty good as finishers on a rush crashing the net but without fast, proper, and well coordinated rushes that doesn't really happen much.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #4
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,582
vCash: 500
I get really frustrated watching this team try to dump & chase. Last night was brutal. I don't think they really got to one puck before Harding or the Wild D.

__________________
"Help was not promised, lovely girl. Only death."
JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 11:42 AM
  #5
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,079
vCash: 500
This team needs a legit shooter for the top line and a playmaker for the second line cause they're not generating **** right now. I really don't get why the Flyers don't call up Straka, Cousins or Superstar Jason Akeson. They all provide something that this team is lacking right now.

Raffl needs to be on the 4th line.

If virtually every one of our top players weren't grossly underperforming we wouldn't be talking about any of this though. I'm looking at you Voracek, G, Hartnell and Simmer!

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #6
FlyersFanz
aut viam inveniam au
 
FlyersFanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BlkVanOutsideUrHouse
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
This team needs a legit shooter for the top line and a playmaker for the second line cause they're not generating **** right now. I really don't get why the Flyers don't call up Straka, Cousins or Superstar Jason Akeson. They all provide something that this team is lacking right now.

Raffl needs to be on the 4th line.

If virtually every one of our top players weren't grossly underperforming we wouldn't be talking about any of this though. I'm looking at you Voracek, G, Hartnell and Simmer!
Need to do a Torts(Tortorella)on these guys...either bench them or give them less minutes, that will make them appreciate the top lines more. This team just looks lazy out there(other than the 3rd line).

FlyersFanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #7
Kevin Danko
Cheeseburger Picnic
 
Kevin Danko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 4,276
vCash: 420
The issue is we are letting teams push us to the outside, not feeling confident enough to go up the middle of the ice and deke a guy. Giroux was flashy a couple years ago and now he is so predictable. He sits along the side board and feeds the D or the guy on the side of the net and nothing develops.

Simmonds gets in to close and gives himself no options other then screening and hoping for a puck to drop right at his feet...if he moved out about a foot then he would likely see more goals.

Hartnell is a lost cause.

The past few games in particular stemming from the Florida game, The teams we have been playing have an agressive forecheck and don't let you breathe with the puck. We can't figure out how to play in those situations and it shows. In my opinion and im not a hockey genious at all...it looks like teams figured out how to beat us and we arent adjusting.

When we get into the zone and establish the pressure we tend to just move the puck back and forth with short passes...move the puck back to your d fast let them get shots off and youll see Simmonds and Hartnell get those garbage goals. When we do these short little passes back to the D it gives the Defensive team time to anticipate it and jump all over the D guy with the puck and you get turnovers....Mark Streit's problems in a nutshell! Stretch the Ice in the offensive zone and make hard crisp passes...quit playing the parameter and get the puck on net with traffic in front.


Last edited by Kevin Danko: 12-03-2013 at 12:56 PM.
Kevin Danko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #8
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindank View Post
The issue is we are letting teams push us to the outside, not feeling confident enough to go up the middle of the ice and deke a guy. Giroux was flashy a couple years ago and now he is so predictable. He sits along the side board and feeds the D or the guy on the side of the net and nothing develops.

Simmonds gets in to close and gives himself no options other then screening and hoping for a puck to drop right at his feet...if he moved out about a foot then he would likely see more goals.

Hartnell is a lost cause.

The past few games in particular stemming from the Florida game, The teams we have been playing have an agressive forecheck and don't let you breathe with the puck. We can't figure out how to play in those situations and it shows. In my opinion and im not a hockey genious at all...it looks like teams figured out how to beat us and we arent adjusting.

When we get into the zone and establish the pressure we tend to just move the puck back and forth with short passes...move the puck back to your d fast let them get shots off and youll see Simmonds and Hartnell get those garbage goals. When we do these short little passes back to the D it gives the Defensive team time to anticipate it and jump all over the D guy with the puck and you get turnovers....Mark Streit's problems in a nutshell! Stretch the Ice in the offensive zone and make hard crisp passes...quit playing the parameter and get the puck on net with traffic in front.
We really don't have the proper mix of players on the front and backend ...if we didn't have goaltending this year it would be a total mess and Holmgren would be out the door.

They have adjusted somewhat to the personnel that they have...Berube has done what he can or at least better than stubborn Lavi. Sure there is room for improvement on Berube's part and the players but Holmgren needs to assemble this team to be more complementary to one another and the system Berube is trying to implement. Like Meltzer noted...against less defensive teams if the Flyers play 60 mins which they have been better at with Berube..they have a chance to win but once they play hard checking teams this team just can't hang. Last year they looked really bad b/c there was no last line of defense in goal but the problem still persists this year and it's a personnel issue...

In short..if no change in the mix of players....this team will hover around .500 and prolly won't make the playoffs

oh yeah and as far as the backend issue.....besides Streit there is nobody who is really a threat back there to keep the other team honest and break some of the forecheck. Timonen is a bit better of late but not great....the rest of the group speaks for itself.

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 01:18 PM
  #9
Jumping
Registered User
 
Jumping's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Atlanta Ga
Country: United States
Posts: 1,357
vCash: 500
They are slow. Slooowwww.

Jumping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 04:24 PM
  #10
Sniped
Snowballs at Santa
 
Sniped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 2,295
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
They are slow. Slooowwww.
We lack speed and we have no puck possession forwards with big frames. You need a mix of both or be excellent in one to stay consistent in the NHL, offensively.

I agree our speed is sorely lacking and looks even worse when we play fast, high-tempo teams; the Lightning game is a good example.

Sniped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 04:27 PM
  #11
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniped View Post
We lack speed and we have no puck possession forwards with big frames. You need a mix of both or be excellent in one to stay consistent in the NHL, offensively.

I agree our speed is sorely lacking and looks even worse when we play fast, high-tempo teams; the Lightning game is a good example.
Yup..speedy teams like Tampa completely expose the Flyers

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 04:33 PM
  #12
FlyingPhilly
Registered User
 
FlyingPhilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 1,309
vCash: 500
And there are some people here who want to get more defensive d-men. Sure, add more slow d-men with no offensive ability cause that will surely fix the no skills and offense from the blue line.

FlyingPhilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 04:36 PM
  #13
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 12,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
On 2.:

Couturier's line has done well at carrying the puck and dumping it in.

Giroux and Voracek can both carry the puck into the zone, but both have been making horrid low percentage passes of late. Hartnell does not appear to be a top 6 player any longer.

Vinny is not fast enough to carry it into the zone, so they have to rely on dump and chase. Problem there obviously is B.Schenn and Simmonds unable to get the puck often enough to cycle. B.Schenn is basically no good at anything involving the puck on his stick for more than a second. Simmonds is effective at times on the forecheck, but not consistently.

You are 100 percent about Brayden Schenn. All he is good for is 1. being a net prescence and getting dirty goals. 2. Snapshots from the point. Anything else he sucks at.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 05:37 PM
  #14
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 500
some of what ails us might be cured just with a healthy dose of selfish "me first" thinking...

shoot the godam puck, worry what happens after. so many zone entries end up with nothing gained at all due to trying to setup for hi-lite reel pass's that easily get picked off and the Goalie doesnt even get tested...

its like the Flyers dont think a intial zone entry shot has ANY chance of going in...everything must be 2-3 pass' minimum

Flyerfan4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 06:04 PM
  #15
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
some of what ails us might be cured just with a healthy dose of selfish "me first" thinking...

shoot the godam puck, worry what happens after. so many zone entries end up with nothing gained at all due to trying to setup for hi-lite reel pass's that easily get picked off and the Goalie doesnt even get tested...

its like the Flyers dont think a intial zone entry shot has ANY chance of going in...everything must be 2-3 pass' minimum
I agree with you totally. It's ridiculous. You aren't the Globetrotters or the Hickory High basketball team.

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2013, 06:24 PM
  #16
RussianRocket10
Registered User
 
RussianRocket10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: Brazil
Posts: 4,398
vCash: 500
The whole missed and blocked shots frustrates me. I swear this team misses the net more than any team in the league. If they don't then it sure feels like it. I know sometimes a defenseman will shoot wide on purpose hoping for a good bounce of the boards or something but there's no way they should be missing the net this much.

RussianRocket10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 01:29 AM
  #17
OzFlyer
Registered Boozer
 
OzFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
some of what ails us might be cured just with a healthy dose of selfish "me first" thinking...

shoot the godam puck, worry what happens after. so many zone entries end up with nothing gained at all due to trying to setup for hi-lite reel pass's that easily get picked off and the Goalie doesnt even get tested...

its like the Flyers dont think a intial zone entry shot has ANY chance of going in...everything must be 2-3 pass' minimum
It works for the Oiler's right?

OzFlyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 02:34 AM
  #18
Ryker
Registered User
 
Ryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Triangle, NC, USA
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 3,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
some of what ails us might be cured just with a healthy dose of selfish "me first" thinking...

shoot the godam puck, worry what happens after. so many zone entries end up with nothing gained at all due to trying to setup for hi-lite reel pass's that easily get picked off and the Goalie doesnt even get tested...

its like the Flyers dont think a intial zone entry shot has ANY chance of going in...everything must be 2-3 pass' minimum
I'm not sure that's the problem. It's not as if they're making these awesome plays and then making that extra unneeded pass. They aren't making any good looking plays most of the time, so shooting the puck more would, I think, at this point just inflate the other goalies' save percentages.

Ryker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 09:35 AM
  #19
ihatebraydenschenn
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SunnyvaleTrailerPark
Country: Canada
Posts: 987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It's not a surprise that our breakouts don't tend to be very clean or fast when we only have two D capable of playing that kind of game with one being near retirement and the other being Streit.
I see failed breakouts that consist of top 6 forwards all of the time.

ihatebraydenschenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 11:52 AM
  #20
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,145
vCash: 500
LOL....now he's definitely trolling....


Quote:
It seems a crime that the Flyers have lost more games (10) than they have won (nine) with Mason in the net.

Their struggling offense is the reason. The Flyers are averaging just 2.07 goals per game and are on pace to break the club's all-time low - 2.29 per game in 1968-69.
Asked whether he was shopping for offensive help, Holmgren said, "Same refrain. I'm always looking, but I think I've been pretty consistent in [saying] I like our team."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...sBamcLtbKuE.99

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 12:44 PM
  #21
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 7,330
vCash: 500
If I was going to make an educated guess I would imagine that this team ends the year with circa 200-210 goals for.

Their current shot % is unsustainable bad, but it has been poor over 1/3rd of the season now, so I doubt it will get to the NHL average of 9%, let alone their usual ~9.5%.

However... getting to ~8.2-8.4% is not unrealistic... that would be bottom ~8 in the league. (probably 4th-6th worst.)

Assuming they continue to get 29-30 shots a game that would mean over a season ~2400-2450 shots.

That would be around 200-210 goals if they finished with a ~8.2-8.4 sh %.

That would require them over the remaining 55 games to score 143-150 goals at ~9% shot. (so average for the rest of the year... which is not unlikely.)

200-210 will put them at ~2.4-2.56 GF/G. That will almost certainly be bottom top in the NHL.

Recently ~2-3 teams with that kind of offensive output get in the playoffs. (both conferences.)

So basically if the offence gets back to a normal sh% for the remaining 55 games the offence will still be below average in the NHL... likely bottom 10, and possibly on the edge of the bottom 5.

That does not preclude them from the playoffs, but it will be damn hard to get in, and necessitate them continuing to have a ~top ten GA/G most likely.

And that is all if the sh% rebounds to ~9% for the rest of the year. (so average-ever so slightly below.) If they shoot at ~8% for that time (will probably be bottom two in the NHL for sh%) they will end with ~180 goals. Aint getting in the playoffs with that.

Appleyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 12:48 PM
  #22
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
If I was going to make an educated guess I would imagine that this team ends the year with circa 200-210 goals for.

Their current shot % is unsustainable bad, but it has been poor over 1/3rd of the season now, so I doubt it will get to the NHL average of 9%, let alone their usual ~9.5%.

However... getting to ~8.2-8.4% is not unrealistic... that would be bottom ~8 in the league. (probably 4th-6th worst.)

Assuming they continue to get 29-30 shots a game that would mean over a season ~2400-2450 shots.

That would be around 200-210 goals if they finished with a ~8.2-8.4 sh %.

That would require them over the remaining 55 games to score 143-150 goals at ~9% shot. (so average for the rest of the year... which is not unlikely.)

200-210 will put them at ~2.4-2.56 GF/G. That will almost certainly be bottom top in the NHL.

Recently ~2-3 teams with that kind of offensive output get in the playoffs. (both conferences.)

So basically if the offence gets back to a normal sh% for the remaining 55 games the offence will still be below average in the NHL... likely bottom 10, and possibly on the edge of the bottom 5.

That does not preclude them from the playoffs, but it will be damn hard to get in, and necessitate them continuing to have a ~top ten GA/G most likely.

And that is all if the sh% rebounds to ~9% for the rest of the year. (so average-ever so slightly below.) If they shoot at ~8% for that time (will probably be bottom two in the NHL for sh%) they will end with ~180 goals. Aint getting in the playoffs with that.
In other words we're screwed for a playoff bid......no surprise.

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 12:56 PM
  #23
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 7,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
In other words we're screwed for a playoff bid......no surprise.
Well... not 100%... but it will be hard, and if they do they will probably squeak in. (but most of us thought that was where they were before the season... ~6-10 in the conference with potential for more, though ofc we would have all liked them to be closer to 6 than 10!)

But based off previous years and teams they pretty much have to get back to a normal shot percentage for the remaining 55 games... as 200 goals is pretty much the playoff cutoff. (Though the Kings got less and then won the cup!)

If they shot at the 9.5% they have for the last ~3 years they would likely easily get in... but I doubt that is going to happen based on so far this year.

If they don't get to ~8.2-8.4% on the year (they are ~7 now.) they are pretty screwed. (Hence the required ~9% for the rest of the year.)

The shot % has been creeping up though, at one point they were almost at ~6% flat.

This is only one metric ofc... but sh%, shots and GF are a pretty important one really, and the previous 7 seasons would say 200 goals is pretty much the magic number for a chance of a playoff shot with a decent defensive team. Though if the defence can continue to be great maybe, just maybe 195ish could do it. (LA.)

EDIT:

Looking back through the last 15 games they have 35 goals (so 2.33 GPG) while shooting at 7.8%. (449 shots)

The last 10 they have 24 goals (so 2.4 GPG) while shooting at 7.7%. (312 shots)

Shots in those 15 games:

137 through 5 (27.4 a game) (record of 3-1-1)
310 through 10... so 173 through next 5 (34.6 a game) (record of 4-0-1)
449 through 15... so 139 through last 5 (27.8 a game) (record of 2-3-0)

Overall ~30 shots a game average in that time.

No coincidence the middle 5 games were when they were best in that span, ~7 more shots a night.

So through the last 15 games their sh% has been already over 1% more than in the first 12... it need to keep going up. The goals scored (2.3-2.4) in that span would be 190-195 over a full season... need to get slightly more... the extra 1% shot over that time (if average of 9%) would have tipped them to a rate that would be on pace for 200 over a full year, as would have shooting ~30 shots a night in the first 5 and last 5 games.


Last edited by Appleyard: 12-04-2013 at 01:37 PM.
Appleyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 04:38 PM
  #24
McNasty
Registered User
 
McNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rutgers
Country: United States
Posts: 5,755
vCash: 500
The offensive game plan hasn't changed all that much under Berube. They pretty much filter everything to the boards/behind the net. You rarely see them connect on multiple direct (by that I mean stick to stick, not passed around the boards to a guy behind the net) passes in succession when they aren't on a powerplay. Off the rush they play extremely conservative for the most part, rarely challenging defenders 1 on 1 and typically the 3rd forward is staying extremely high to support defensively instead of supporting the puck. I want to throw my remote every time they work it from behind the net to the point just for an unscreened slapshot (when it doesn't miss or get blocked).

It's a similar story with their PP, the PP struggles when the other team pressures the puck which forces them to work the puck around the boards instead of being able to put the puck on a guys tape.

McNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2013, 08:16 PM
  #25
Gert B Frobe
Registered User
 
Gert B Frobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,510
vCash: 500
Meltzer really nails it here. The reason behind all of it is just a bad mix of players. Without Mason and Emery - this team has 4 wins maybe 5

Gert B Frobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.