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Team Toughness II

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Old
12-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #51
E-Train
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
As an example of this....Yesterday the Habs signed FA Jack Nevins who is captain of the PEI Islanders in the Q . He is 6ft 2 and about 210 now and going at a point a game clip and likes the rough stuff...he got a 3 year deal and was also wooed by Ottawa...now there s a guy we should have been all over . That type of guy is more to be found in the Canadian Junior Leagues than US college...am I right or wrong on that ??? I think we need an overhaul in our scouting . http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=3266
To be fair they did sign Michael Kantor who was able to put up better numbers in the O. I'm sure they know who he is as he's played with Ryan Graves the past two seasons. I don't have any problem with rolling the dice on these types.

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12-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by E-Train View Post
To be fair they did sign Michael Kantor who was able to put up better numbers in the O. I'm sure they know who he is as he's played with Ryan Graves the past two seasons. I don't have any problem with rolling the dice on these types.
LOL...it would be an awful thing if we had two in our system !

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12-04-2013, 03:24 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
LOL...it would be an awful thing if we had two in our system !
I don't disagree. What I am saying is its not like they have no idea who Jack Nevins is, ok?

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Old
12-04-2013, 03:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well, then I think you're just reaching for stars here. Everyone wants players that can intimidate, possess skill, score, and have a 2-way game -- all at the NHL level. Those players just aren't easy to find.

Theres guys like Lucic or Clowe from 5 years ago that anyone would like to have. But Im pretty sure anyone else you name come with the same ol' warts and question marks.
This is the same old refrain repeated like a broken record around here.

Again, no one said it's easy. But it becomes impossible when you don't even try to focus on it. A miserable failure by this franchise going back decades and a question I am happy to discuss perhaps endlessly.

But we need to ask ourselves a question that I'll ask you:

Why has this team only won one Stanley Cup in the last 74 years?

You know what I think is one of the main reasons is but I'm curious what you think.

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Old
12-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #55
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I'm neutral on the subject. I think a team just needs to take the body and stick up for one another.

Anyway, when you look at the top teams in the league, you dont see too many heavyweights in their line up. Pittsburgh, San Jose, Chicago, Anaheim. These teams have guys that are tough and guys that will drop the gloves but i dont really see any legitimate tough guys. I'm all for being an in your face team and hitting everything that moves, but i think we need the players for that and a heavyweight wont make the rest of the team do that. I'm sure some players will feel a little bit better if there is a guy like Orr on the team but that also isnt gonna score goals. We've had players get run before even with tough guys in the lineup so yeah. The players should play their game whether we have a fighter or not, period. MAYBE once in a while i would dress a fighter, especially against rivals, but at the end of the day it will not help us score goals. If our guys are scared to play their game because there is no tough guy on the ice, then we have a big problem.

So to sum it up, i dont mind a tough guy here and there, but to say that its part of the reason we cant win is not true imo. If Dorsett or Falk win those fight then nobody is asking for a fighter. We just need to play the damn game hard and thats it. Sather acquires John Scott when we were tough enough a few years ago but needed more skill but now we need toughness and his big thing is skill, comical.

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Old
12-04-2013, 04:58 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NGgator60 View Post
I think that you did a great job of building on my sentiments and turning the discussion towards where it should and needs to go in order for the Rangers to be a legitimate Cup contender.
Spot on. I'm of the opinion that as of this stage, the Rangers need to alter 5-7 roster spots to fill to get to that contender status. Some of that is counting on the core to step up. Some of that is through kids coming up the pipeline. But most of it starts with ridding the roster of inconsistent players who do not add to a teams battle level, or play demotivated with less than 110% effort.

Size, speed, toughness, hunger, tenacity, and commitment to winning are the traits that I want, and not a bunch of Euro-league bound mercs who play passive hockey.

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Old
12-04-2013, 05:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Sather acquires John Scott when we were tough enough a few years ago but needed more skill but now we need toughness and his big thing is skill, comical.
Give me a ****ing break. Glen sent a 5th rounder to Chicago for Scott in case Rupp, Bickel, or Prust got hurt in the 2012 playoff run. Purely as insurance in case of a physical matchup like Boston. Why play skill against toughness as if you have to be on one end of the spectrum or the other? We need to improve both simultaneously; it may require punting this season and trading a few upcoming Free Agents and prospects to improve the overall roster.

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12-04-2013, 06:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Callafan24 View Post
Give me a ****ing break. Glen sent a 5th rounder to Chicago for Scott in case Rupp, Bickel, or Prust got hurt in the 2012 playoff run. Purely as insurance in case of a physical matchup like Boston. Why play skill against toughness as if you have to be on one end of the spectrum or the other? We need to improve both simultaneously; it may require punting this season and trading a few upcoming Free Agents and prospects to improve the overall roster.


Read my post. In 2012 at the trade deadline, Glen Sather acquired John Scott, did we need John Scott? Our GM does things backwards and that is another things we do backwards. 2012 we were good with toughness, that team took **** from nobody which is why i question why Sather traded for Scott. Now we need toughness and he is trying to get more skill players. I agree we need to improve both, but i cant do nothing about it.

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Old
12-04-2013, 06:17 PM
  #59
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What boggles my mind is Slats never put together a soft team..ever...He has always liked his policemen and played them..This year is very strange it must be AV?? I'm telling you until we can draft some big dudes that can play we will continue to hire mercenary hitmen...and for this year I'm really hoping we can pry McGratts away from Calgary..This guy is more than just a goon he is a leader and a solid character guy..Please get him

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12-04-2013, 06:21 PM
  #60
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...and all the pre season love for Pouliet ...I hate to say I told u so but I did...I said he would never make it past game 50 here this year...He needs to go for a young mean SOB 3rd liner who will punish

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12-04-2013, 06:22 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
...and all the pre season love for Pouliet ...I hate to say I told u so but I did...I said he would never make it past game 50 here this year...He needs to go for a young mean SOB 3rd liner who will punish

You didnt say anything, everybody knew PouliOt was inconsistent, who is surprised?

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12-04-2013, 06:37 PM
  #62
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I did say something...the pre season love for this guy was nuts...It doesn't matter anyway he will be gone soon enough




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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
You didnt say anything, everybody knew PouliOt was inconsistent, who is surprised?

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12-04-2013, 06:38 PM
  #63
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I did say something...the pre season love for this guy was nuts...It doesn't matter anyway he will be gone soon enough

Who loved him?

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:05 PM
  #64
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The Rangers sign or draft a big guy once a year and then spend the rest of their picks on smaller guys. Teams like the Bruins draft 5-6 big guys and then go for 1 smaller...so, we can say we drafted McIlrath, Noreau, Wilson and Graves...I guess that means we are set.

AV has always fielded a soft team and thats what I was afraid of....when his comments are I don't know the East that well but I think we are tough enough...u think he would have learned from his lose to the Bruins a few years back in the finals.

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Old
12-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #65
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Have the Rangers won a fight this year or do we always get pounded. I hate seeing us fight because I know that our guys are gonna get there butts kicked. Dorsett tries but he isn't gonna beat anyone. Boyle would lose to Martin St. Louis in a fight. Callahan can't even beat Maxim Talbot. It hated listening to the announcers say after Sesito hit Del Zotto show me someone who is gonna do anything about it. He knows the Rangers aren't gonna do anything except Dorsett who he could beat with one hand behind his back. We are to soft and will not go for with the Charmin team

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12-04-2013, 09:25 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
What boggles my mind is Slats never put together a soft team..ever...He has always liked his policemen and played them..This year is very strange it must be AV?? I'm telling you until we can draft some big dudes that can play we will continue to hire mercenary hitmen...and for this year I'm really hoping we can pry McGratts away from Calgary..This guy is more than just a goon he is a leader and a solid character guy..Please get him
Since I live in Calgary I see my fair share of McGrattan and I totally agree with you. He'd be great to have for a couple years.

He's 32 now, so i wouldn't have him past 35.... 2-3 years tops.

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Old
12-05-2013, 08:04 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
What boggles my mind is Slats never put together a soft team..ever...
Umm...during Sather's tenure, most of the teams that were iced have been soft.

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Old
12-05-2013, 08:04 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Hockeyplayer99 View Post
Have the Rangers won a fight this year or do we always get pounded.

We are to soft and will not go for with the Charmin team
You are confusing team toughness with being a pugilist.

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Old
12-05-2013, 09:50 AM
  #69
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Perfect for you : Mark Borowiecki

Senators are overcommitted with 7 contracts on defense and had to sent him to the AHL. The only one that waiver exempt. He was up recently as an 8th for 10 games and they couldn't take him out of the lineup. Was also on their first PK unit. Great skater. Lots of upside. 3/4/5 potential. Might be able to get him for a low price.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNP3Xqs9FCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2dKTRlpZ-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNP3Xqs9FCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpEiAYNMSQ

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:00 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by leftwinglocker View Post
Perfect for you : Mark Borowiecki

Senators are overcommitted with 7 contracts on defense and had to sent him to the AHL. The only one that waiver exempt. He was up recently as an 8th for 10 games and they couldn't take him out of the lineup. Was also on their first PK unit. Great skater. Lots of upside. 3/4/5 potential. Might be able to get him for a low price.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNP3Xqs9FCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2dKTRlpZ-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNP3Xqs9FCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpEiAYNMSQ
id made a proposal about him before.. how about Borowiecki and Matt Kassian for Pouliot...

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:02 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
chicken egg my friend. If it helps a team mentally and/or give the team energy in games like last night then who is to say it couldn't make a difference on the scoreboard. I would argue it certainly would (does). A balanced team is a playoff team. See Boston.
Boston would be the team that had the luxury of having Bergeron on the second line and Seguin often on the third line. Their 4th line may have been the best in the league last year.

I would point to that as the primary reason for their success. You would point to Scott Thornton as the reason.

Rangers also had no equivalent players to Krejci and Lucic on the first line.

Team toughness matters. Fighting doesn't. Some people say it does but I never see any proof of it. The last time it was like that was in Philly, 40 or so years ago.

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12-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #72
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Ummm wrong..He always had a policeman in the lineup....




Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Umm...during Sather's tenure, most of the teams that were iced have been soft.

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12-05-2013, 11:09 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
chicken egg my friend. If it helps a team mentally and/or give the team energy in games like last night then who is to say it couldn't make a difference on the scoreboard. I would argue it certainly would (does). A balanced team is a playoff team. See Boston.
Boston would be the team that had the luxury of having Bergeron on the second line and Seguin often on the third line. Their 4th line may have been the best in the league last year.

I would point to that as the primary reason for their success. You would point to Scott Thornton as the reason.

Rangers also had no equivalent players to Krejci and Lucic on the first line.

Team toughness matters. Fighting doesn't. Some people say it does but I never see any proof of it. The last time it was like that was in Philly, 40 or so years ago.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:26 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Spot on. I'm of the opinion that as of this stage, the Rangers need to alter 5-7 roster spots to fill to get to that contender status. Some of that is counting on the core to step up. Some of that is through kids coming up the pipeline. But most of it starts with ridding the roster of inconsistent players who do not add to a teams battle level, or play demotivated with less than 110% effort.

Size, speed, toughness, hunger, tenacity, and commitment to winning are the traits that I want, and not a bunch of Euro-league bound mercs who play passive hockey.
5 - 7? Unless you're talking replacing the entire 4th line and 3rd pairing that's a lot of spots to fill. Personally I think 2 or 3 additions can make this team a legit contender.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:55 AM
  #75
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Ummm wrong..He always had a policeman in the lineup....
There is calling someone a policeman and then there is doing the role. Sather had Sandy McCarthy dress. Was he a policeman?

And dressing one policeman does not mean that the team is not soft.

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