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Trade Proposal Thread - Mk III - Iron Traders (Or Trader's Den)

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #926
jaffy27
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
And Ron Hainsey has had a terrible career or something? Over 600 games played and 3 x 30 plus point seasons. Sure not a Norris candidate but a solid enough career.
Well said, I think people associate him as a failure because of his ridiculous contract he had hanging around his neck a few years back, he's your perfect 5-6 Dman and occasionally be givin spot duty in top 4

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
And Ron Hainsey has had a terrible career or something? Over 600 games played and 3 x 30 plus point seasons. Sure not a Norris candidate but a solid enough career.
Oh I agree with you, and I never said that Beaulieu doesn't have some sort of upside. But having Hainsey's type of upside is certainly less appealing than having Kulikov's type of upside. Hainsey was a #5-#6 d-man on very poor teams all is career, someone you use on the PP when you have no other option.

I just wanted to put Beaulieu's upside in perspective for posters who consider crazy trading him for Kulikov. And I do agree Beaulieu has the talent to make me look like a fool in 2-3 years. It's just that he didn't show anything like it for now, while Kulikov has already played well enough in the NHL to have a 3M contract, while still being young.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:09 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Markov is 10x the dman Kulikov is and I rather he be resigned then getting a guy that has nit shown much improvement so far in his career.
I like Kulikov and think he deserves another shot on a team that isn't a disaster, but there's no way he can be expected to replace Markov.

I wouldn't mind gambling something like Gorges and a few second rate prospects for him, but it could backfire as I'm still skeptical about Emelin carrying a second pairing if it doesn't work out.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #929
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

What do you guys think about making room for Kulikov by not resigning Diaz, and resiging Markov for another 3-4 years, mentoring Kulikov into becoming a solid first pairing guy ?

Habs would have a very solid top6 :

Subban - Markov
Kulikov - Emelin
Gorges - Tinordi or vet UFA
Drewiske

Diaz will most likely ask 2-3 M next year since he's playing fairly well and is UFA (we'll most likely lose him on the market).

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:14 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Beaulieu is one of the top defenseman in Hamilton... He was their number 1 defenseman last season at 20. He just turned 21 (when most CHL players play their first AHL season) and has looked good with the Dogs this season. Pateryn just looks better... you should take it as a good thing that the habs have such a good defenseman prospect group
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree then. I really don't think Beaulieu is playing that well in Hamilton. It's Nygren and Pateryn, and Tinordi who had the toughest minutes down there. And Beaulieu better start to show the upside people are talking about pretty soon because if that vision is true, he would be dominating a lot more in the AHL, no matter his age.

Now on his best games, he's playing in the AHL like a good puck moving d-man with holes in his defensive game. Like I said: Closer to Ron Hainsey than a futur top 2 in the NHL. That's why I would prefer Kulikov over him.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:14 AM
  #931
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Could you imagine;

Subban - Markov
Kulikov - Emelin
Gorges - Diaz

Damnnnnnnnnn.

I'd easily give Beaulieu + for him. Hell, get Boyes too and let's have a full explotation line.

Briere - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Boyes
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Moen - Bourival - Prust
Injured: Bourque

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree then. I really don't think Beaulieu is playing that well in Hamilton. It's Nygren and Pateryn, and Tinordi who had the toughest minutes down there. And Beaulieu better start to show the upside people are talking about pretty soon because if that vision is true, he would be dominating a lot more in the AHL, no matter his age.

Now on his best games, he's playing in the AHL like a good puck moving d-man with holes in his defensive game. Like I said: Closer to Ron Hainsey than a futur top 2 in the NHL. That's why I would prefer Kulikov over him.
What do you think it would take to land Kulikov then ?

In the OP I mentionned Beaulieu + late round pick, would it be reasonnable ? I'd probably go as far as Beaulieu + Leblanc for Kulikov + late round pick, and would do it in a heartbeat.

Kulikov has the potential of #1 D, #3-4 for sure, and is NHL ready for Montreal's push for the Stanley cup (within Carey Price's current contract). Currently, we're 1 dominating center and top4 D away from contention IMO (Gorges isn't top 4, not enough offense, the play dies when he has the puck in the offensive zone).

To the poster above, I doubt we will sign Diaz next year, he's going to sign a 2-4M deal somewhere else. I don't want him at that price with the Habs. We're all shocked at the amount Emelin got, Diaz won't get much less.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #933
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Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 35m I'll share, I don't think anything's going on with MTL and Col. But I'm certain something is with Columbus and Montreal. Time will tell

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 33m I don't know if something's coming in the immediate future, but Montreal and Columbus have been talking trade for a number of weeks

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 32m There's no merit to any report suggesting Pacioretty isn't happy in Montreal.

Foligno is the guy I can see coming if it's a deal of any magnitude...maybe Umberger though we'd have to be moving salary or CBJ would need to eat 750-1 mil, his cap hit is too high.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
What do you think it would take to land Kulikov then ?

In the OP I mentionned Beaulieu + late round pick, would it be reasonnable ? I'd probably go as far as Beaulieu + Leblanc for Kulikov + late round pick, and would do it in a heartbeat.

Kulikov has the potential of #1 D, #3-4 for sure, and is NHL ready for Montreal's push for the Stanley cup (within Carey Price's current contract). Currently, we're 1 dominating center and top4 D away from contention IMO (Gorges isn't top 4, not enough offense, the play dies when he has the puck in the offensive zone).

To the poster above, I doubt we will sign Diaz next year, he's going to sign a 2-4M deal somewhere else. I don't want him at that price with the Habs. We're all shocked at the amount Emelin got, Diaz won't get much less.
Personnaly, I would be willing to do Leblanc+Beaulieu+third round pick, nothing more, since I would be afraid Kulikov could be offered great money to play in the KHL.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:54 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 35m I'll share, I don't think anything's going on with MTL and Col. But I'm certain something is with Columbus and Montreal. Time will tell

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 33m I don't know if something's coming in the immediate future, but Montreal and Columbus have been talking trade for a number of weeks

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 32m There's no merit to any report suggesting Pacioretty isn't happy in Montreal.

Foligno is the guy I can see coming if it's a deal of any magnitude...maybe Umberger though we'd have to be moving salary or CBJ would need to eat 750-1 mil, his cap hit is too high.
When has eric engels ever known anything? I ****ing hate that guy.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #936
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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
I know the difference between welfare and pro sports thank you, he's signed for less in the past, it can happen again...it will happen again, doubt he'll command 6.3 for 3 years, when the facts come out, we'll see who has bragging rights on the term and $$$
Hey, I'd be the happiest guy here if we can get markov for 2-3 more years at 5.75 mil. If he keeps playing like he is I think it will cost 500-750k more/year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I find Beaulieu way overrated around here. People keep talking about his upside while there are many d-men of his age around the league and he has problem being adequate defensively in the AHL against players who'll never be more than third or fourth line players in the NHL. He's closer to be the next Ron Hainsey than the next top 2 d-man. I would take Kulikov way before him. If his upside was so high, he would at least be the clear cut #1 d-man in Hamilton, which isn't the case.
I think he's definitely adequate defensively for AHL , but his defensive game is still a couple years from playing top 4 at the NHL level. Unlike Toronto with Reilly or Gardiner, the Habs are letting him develop in the AHL with less pressure.

His upside is high because of his size(6'2") skating(well above average) and hockey sense(above average). Those are things that you can't teach and are very valuable. You can teach 1 on 1 coverage and to take less risks behind your blueline.

I don't really care if he is #1, 2 or 3 in Hamilton, at one point we had 4 guys there that were all good(or better) NHL prospects.

Not sure where you get the Hainsey comparable, Beaulieu is already better offensively than Hainsey at his best. Hainsey right now is more of a stay at home who plays safe and a low risk style.

Bottom line, he is a guy I'd want a big time player back to move. Not worth the upside lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Oh I agree with you, and I never said that Beaulieu doesn't have some sort of upside. But having Hainsey's type of upside is certainly less appealing than having Kulikov's type of upside. Hainsey was a #5-#6 d-man on very poor teams all is career, someone you use on the PP when you have no other option.

I just wanted to put Beaulieu's upside in perspective for posters who consider crazy trading him for Kulikov. And I do agree Beaulieu has the talent to make me look like a fool in 2-3 years. It's just that he didn't show anything like it for now, while Kulikov has already played well enough in the NHL to have a 3M contract, while still being young.
Beaulieu has as much if not more upside than Kulikov, he is just more raw at the same age. Kulikov's game at 18 was more well rounded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

What do you guys think about making room for Kulikov by not resigning Diaz, and resiging Markov for another 3-4 years, mentoring Kulikov into becoming a solid first pairing guy ?

Habs would have a very solid top6 :

Subban - Markov
Kulikov - Emelin
Gorges - Tinordi or vet UFA
Drewiske

Diaz will most likely ask 2-3 M next year since he's playing fairly well and is UFA (we'll most likely lose him on the market).
If the Habs lose Diaz on the market MB has dropped the ball.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:58 AM
  #937
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Eric Engels?

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:59 AM
  #938
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
When has eric engels ever known anything? I ****ing hate that guy.
He seems to be in tune most times.

Why would you hate him, what has he ever done to you?

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:35 AM
  #939
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Tyutin from Columbus

or bring back the Wiz. Too bad his contract sucks.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #940
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I always thought Foligno could be a guy Montreal would target at some point. One of those guys who brings a little bit of everything but isn't great at any one thing.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:44 AM
  #941
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Wouldn't mind Foligno. Every team needs a guy like him IMO. Decent skill, has some sandpaper.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:45 AM
  #942
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Swap Bourque for Umberger?

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:48 AM
  #943
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Swap Bourque for Umberger?
4.6 million until 2016? no thank you.

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12-05-2013, 11:54 AM
  #944
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Wouldn't mind Foligno. Every team needs a guy like him IMO. Decent skill, has some sandpaper.
I would be all for some kind of move that essentially replaces the unpredictability of Bourque in our lineup with somebody like Foligno or McGinn, per the two rumoured teams. Bourque's top end may be higher. But so is his salary. I don't see teams swapping straight for him in those scenarios, though who knows what another GM might decide. But I'd be ok with finding a way to pick up a Foligno/McGinn and then essentially dumping Bourque off somewhere for ~nothing, if that worked out to be more doable.

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Old
12-05-2013, 12:20 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He seems to be in tune most times.

Why would you hate him, what has he ever done to you?
I've never seen him call any trade or rumor or anything like that before. Seems out of the ordinary for him.


He's an awful, awful sports writer. That about sums it up.

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12-05-2013, 12:30 PM
  #946
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I've never seen him call any trade or rumor or anything like that before. Seems out of the ordinary for him.


He's an awful, awful sports writer. That about sums it up.
Well, if he's doing it now and never has in the past, maybe it's because he has actual info on this.

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