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It's about time for a Kreider thread

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Old
12-01-2013, 02:05 PM
  #926
Levitate
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Jeez I tend to avoid this place when the Rangers lose a game and that seems to be serving me well...people saying Kreider looked like his "old self" in game prior to this one? Not even close. He might not have been as effective and struggling a bit with his line in general, btu he was still much much better than he was in the preseason or last year. He was still skating, hitting, forechecking, cycling, all of the things he has done better this season. If that's a "down" stretch of games for Kreider then it's still showing that he has taken a good step forward in his development.

What I liked about yesterday, and was probably a product of him having a hattrick game, is that he was making some stickhandling moves and cutting to the net in ways he hasn't been so far this year.

It's also fun to watch how he's trying some new things even with his cycling. In the past couple of weeks you can see he's started doing more cutbacks in the cycle game like Hagelin is a big fan of, and it's shaking defenders off of him since they're giving him some space because of his speed to begin with.

Just happy to see a Rangers draft pick actually seem to develop and use their talents

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12-01-2013, 02:08 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Jeez I tend to avoid this place when the Rangers lose a game and that seems to be serving me well...people saying Kreider looked like his "old self" in game prior to this one? Not even close. He might not have been as effective and struggling a bit with his line in general, btu he was still much much better than he was in the preseason or last year. He was still skating, hitting, forechecking, cycling, all of the things he has done better this season. If that's a "down" stretch of games for Kreider then it's still showing that he has taken a good step forward in his development.

What I liked about yesterday, and was probably a product of him having a hattrick game, is that he was making some stickhandling moves and cutting to the net in ways he hasn't been so far this year.

It's also fun to watch how he's trying some new things even with his cycling. In the past couple of weeks you can see he's started doing more cutbacks in the cycle game like Hagelin is a big fan of, and it's shaking defenders off of him since they're giving him some space because of his speed to begin with.

Just happy to see a Rangers draft pick actually seem to develop and use their talents
I agree. kreider has been of of our most consistent forwards since his call up. i think most people were upset with the Boston game(which everyone except nash/mcd had a bad game) The thing i like is that most of november he was a bit snakebitten when it acme to goals with a lot of bad luck hitting posts but he kept playign well and put up assist. Now teh goals are starting to come which will help the offense

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12-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #928
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Yeah, it's not possible that a 21/22 year old kid - especially an injured one - just hadn't figured the pace and timing of the NHL game yet, it must be someone's fault. Remember kids, the most likely explanations are never the best, look for scandal and subterfuge wherever you can; you'll always find it if you squint hard enough and ignore all evidence to the contrary.
What stands out the most is when Kreider first got called up and Torts told him to "just go out there and have fun" because there was no time to learn the system and he killed it. Then Tortorella started coaching him and he progressively got worse until he was completely lost out there.

Really happy that we now have a coach that puts players in a position where they can succeed

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12-01-2013, 02:49 PM
  #929
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Eh, I mean I think Kreider is better in most areas than he was in his first games, last year, etc. That probably has to do with Tortorella's coaching to some degree. I just kind of feel like instead of letting Kreider play his game and coach him from that point, Tortorella demanded that he stop, play Tortorella's game, and then learn how to play his own game after that.

INstead of working Kreider's game into his system, Tortorella asked that Kreider learn the Torts system first, then work the Kreider game into it

But I could also be completely wrong so whatever

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12-01-2013, 03:12 PM
  #930
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Eh, I mean I think Kreider is better in most areas than he was in his first games, last year, etc. That probably has to do with Tortorella's coaching to some degree. I just kind of feel like instead of letting Kreider play his game and coach him from that point, Tortorella demanded that he stop, play Tortorella's game, and then learn how to play his own game after that.

INstead of working Kreider's game into his system, Tortorella asked that Kreider learn the Torts system first, then work the Kreider game into it

But I could also be completely wrong so whatever
You are right. I dont blame Torts BUT by asking a rookie to change into a completely different style withotu any room for error wa sthe wrong way to go. Kreider is never gonna be a great defensive player(although his defense has really improved) so Torts should have used his strengths instead of making him into a shot blocking forward. I also think the ankle injury plagued him all season

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12-01-2013, 03:23 PM
  #931
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You are right. I dont blame Torts BUT by asking a rookie to change into a completely different style withotu any room for error wa sthe wrong way to go. Kreider is never gonna be a great defensive player(although his defense has really improved) so Torts should have used his strengths instead of making him into a shot blocking forward. I also think the ankle injury plagued him all season
Torts didnt wanna turn him into a shot blocker, where did you come up with this?

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12-01-2013, 03:36 PM
  #932
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Torts didnt wanna turn him into a shot blocker, where did you come up with this?

Sarcasm

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12-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #933
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Sarcasm
ah ok

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12-01-2013, 04:04 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
And why was there nothing going on in the first place?

exxxxxxxactly - Tortorella did a number on this kid.
No, there was nothing going on in the first place because besides scoring a couple of good goals in the playoffs (didn't do much else besides that) he wasn't ready for the NHL last season.

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Old
12-01-2013, 04:17 PM
  #935
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No, there was nothing going on in the first place because besides scoring a couple of good goals in the playoffs (didn't do much else besides that) he wasn't ready for the NHL last season.
Who really care about last year anyway. he wasnt ready and he had a lingering ankle injury. The important thing is that the kid is blossoming this year

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12-01-2013, 04:32 PM
  #936
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I don't care about last year either. It's great he's doing well this year. That is all that matters.

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12-05-2013, 02:16 PM
  #937
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The progression he's made has been quite evident. "[Kreider] needed to learn defense and how to play without the puck," Rangers director of player personnel Gordie Clark said. "He's a very intelligent player who worked hard in the summer to improve." Clark said that because of how Kreider was able to dominate at the lower levels, positional work wasn't as important. "I used to go up to [Boston College head coach] Jerry York and ask how is our rover doing," Clark said in reference to Kreider's positional play.
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With the improvements in his game, Kreider has begun to fulfill that promise this season with the Rangers. He's been one of their best players and has the second highest GVT among Ranger skaters -- hockey's version of Wins Above Replacement -- without the positional adjustment, even though he's played fewer games than most of them. Kreider, never projected as a top-end, puck-possession type player, has also been the best possession forward for the Rangers, despite playing against the opposition's best players. This has so far been a true breakout season for Kreider.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/story...rophy-race-nhl

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12-05-2013, 02:27 PM
  #938
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only 3 offensive fwds have played for games than CK (Brass, BR, MDZ) so it's not surprising that he's 2nd in whatever the hell GVT is.

I'm not knocking him, as he's been one of our best fwds, but seems to really be stat cherry-picking

EDIT - there's actually 4 (counting is hard) but the point still stands

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12-05-2013, 02:28 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
only 3 offensive fwds have played for games than CK (Brass, BR, MDZ) so it's not surprising that he's 2nd in whatever the hell GVT is.

I'm not knocking him, as he's been one of our best fwds, but seems to really be stat cherry-picking
What the hell does this mean

Ignoring the GVT stat, he's still first in Corsi among Rangers.

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12-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #940
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What the hell does this mean

Ignoring the GVT stat, he's still first in Corsi among Rangers.
it was in reply to the quotes RB posted. My assumption (possibly completely wrong) is that GVT is related to offensive prowess (because the comparison had 'wins' in the title), and as there aren't many fwds on the rangers who have offensive prowess and have played more games than CK, it seems like a meaningless stat as it's skewed by games played data.

I'm sure CK is very proud of his Corsi score.... (whatever that is)

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12-05-2013, 02:51 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
it was in reply to the quotes RB posted. My assumption (possibly completely wrong) is that GVT is related to offensive prowess (because the comparison had 'wins' in the title), and as there aren't many fwds on the rangers who have offensive prowess and have played more games than CK, it seems like a meaningless stat as it's skewed by games played data.

I'm sure CK is very proud of his Corsi score.... (whatever that is)
When you say MDZ do you mean Zuccarello? That threw me off a bit, lol.

Also, Corsi is a possession metric.
Quote:
Corsi: A statistic originally invented by Jim Corsi, who was the goaltender coach for the Buffalo Sabres. Corsi is essentially a plus-minus statistic that measures shot attempts. A player receives a plus for any shot attempt (on net, missed, or blocked) that his team directs at the opponent's net, and a minus for any shot attempt against his own net. A proxy for possession.
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/glossary/

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12-05-2013, 02:51 PM
  #942
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GVT is an attempt to put all players (forwards, defensemen, goalies) on the same scale. It's supposed to represent the effect a player has on their teams goal differential. I.e. If you replaced Kreider and his 4.5 GVT with a replacement-level player (Aaron Volpatti?) then the Rangers goal differential would decrease by 4.5.

Corsi is a puck possession measure.

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Old
12-05-2013, 03:47 PM
  #943
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What the hell does this mean

Ignoring the GVT stat, he's still first in Corsi among Rangers.
Somewhere, Kershaw's head just exploded.

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12-05-2013, 03:58 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
it was in reply to the quotes RB posted. My assumption (possibly completely wrong) is that GVT is related to offensive prowess (because the comparison had 'wins' in the title), and as there aren't many fwds on the rangers who have offensive prowess and have played more games than CK, it seems like a meaningless stat as it's skewed by games played data.

I'm sure CK is very proud of his Corsi score.... (whatever that is)
You're like on the opposite end of the Corsi cult people. You seem to not know what it is but are taking a not so subtle jab at it. (On the opposite end are the people that think Corsi is the be all end all stat).

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12-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #945
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You're like on the opposite end of the Corsi cult people. You seem to not know what it is but are taking a not so subtle jab at it. (On the opposite end are the people that think Corsi is the be all end all stat).


Join us.

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12-05-2013, 05:55 PM
  #946
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Somewhere, Kershaw's head just exploded.
What happened to him?

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12-05-2013, 05:58 PM
  #947
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What happened to him?
His head exploded

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12-05-2013, 06:18 PM
  #948
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His head exploded
When the Rangers won their first game this season?

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Old
12-06-2013, 09:19 AM
  #949
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect....htm?dpid=5402

Its a pretty interesting read to see how far he has come... "models his game after Ovechkin"is getting more real every game

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12-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #950
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What happened to him?
He hibernates during the Dodger offseason.. in a tree covered in Matt Kemp's underwear.

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