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Ales Hemsky.. the most Clutch Player in the NHL

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Old
01-05-2007, 11:44 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
How is producing throughout the game clutch? Wouldn't all the clutch players just be all the best players? That's fine I guess, but then won't you need to come up with a word to describe the player that produces huge plays at times like last night with 2 secs left? Will the word clutch work?
Yeah, looks like I'm off on this one. Alanschu I think defined it well.

I was thinking of the term clutch being related to not only being in on the GW or GT goals but say other key goals or moments in the game. The stuff that happens at the end isn't always what decides outcomes.

But sorry, my bad, it appears in anycase.

I didn't have coffee this morning

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01-05-2007, 11:45 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
No, it's clutch because it was a big goal that his team needed.


If he were to score a goal to tie the game up in the playoffs with 2 seconds left on a nice deke like he did against Turco, it'd be a clutch play.

As long as I have watched sports and heard this term "clutch" it's been about making big plays for your team at the biggest time. Even if someone else ends up scoring for your team and winning in overtime, the opportunity would never have presented itself if the game wasn't tied with mere seconds remaining in the game.

Players that are typically considered "clutch players" are known to make these big plays at the end of the game when time is running out. A kicker that is known for kicking the 50 yard field goal, whether it be to win or to tie, is still a clutch kicker. It's about playing well when under pressure.
So, conceivably what you are saying is someone could "continually make big plays at important times" yet never win a single game, and still be considered a "clutch player"? To me it seems like losing a game seems to take some of the "punch" out of clutch. To each his or her own I guess. I will leave this thread now.

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01-05-2007, 11:47 AM
  #53
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Smyth was still big on the play. Making the big pass is still a "clutch" moment. Smyth doesn't make it, Hemsky doesn't get the chance to score.

Michael Jordan dropping the ball off the Steve Kerr en route to winning his 5th championship is still a clutch play on the part of both players. In fact it showed how much Michael Jordan had matured, no longer only relying on himself to make that big shot and having faith that Kerr could make it.


Clutch isn't just about scoring the goal. It's about making the big play under pressure when your team needs it. And Smyth made a big play to Hemsky, so Hemsky could in turn make his to score the goal. Criticizing Smyth for not scoring the actual goal is poor form.


Quote:
So, conceivably what you are saying is someone could "continually make big plays at important times" yet never win a single game, and still be considered a "clutch player"? To me it seems like losing a game seems to take some of the "punch" out of clutch. To each his or her own I guess. I will leave this thread now.
Yup. They typically won't be seen as being "as clutch" as someone that consistently wins, because wins make the big plays more memorable. But if there were, for example, a guy in the NFL that was 100% when kicking a field goal at the end of the game with the game on the line, I'd consider him a clutch player because he does his job, and makes the big play when his team needs it.

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01-05-2007, 11:55 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8haluschak View Post
what the hell do stats have to do with anything look at the actual goals and when they happen - Hemsky with 31 seconds left against the Ducks when we need a win. What does he do he scorers. Hemsky with 1 minute left to knock out the Wings. With 2 seconds left down by one Hemsky scores to get us a point. Added if you want stats how about the stat that of Hemskys goals 21% of them were game winning, evry few players can say the same thing.
My bad, you're right. I was looking at a different definition of clutch. But in offering the stats I was also responding to what you said which is:
Quote:
against the red wings in the playoffs who contributed more ? against the ducks who contributed more ? against the canes in game one how did anyone contribute more
You had changed from talking about clutch seemingly to talking about contribution or production.


Quote:
did Smyth score when it mattered ? no he did not
Does Hemsky score without Smyth getting him the puck? Does hemsky score without Stefan being a doorknob?

j/k

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01-05-2007, 11:58 AM
  #55
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I didn't have coffee this morning
Advantage me.

My addiction has gotten so bad I get a splitting headache if I don't drink coffee in the morning.

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01-05-2007, 12:00 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Smyth was still big on the play. Making the big pass is still a "clutch" moment. Smyth doesn't make it, Hemsky doesn't get the chance to score.

Michael Jordan dropping the ball off the Steve Kerr en route to winning his 5th championship is still a clutch play on the part of both players. In fact it showed how much Michael Jordan had matured, no longer only relying on himself to make that big shot and having faith that Kerr could make it.


Clutch isn't just about scoring the goal. It's about making the big play under pressure when your team needs it. And Smyth made a big play to Hemsky, so Hemsky could in turn make his to score the goal. Criticizing Smyth for not scoring the actual goal is poor form.




Yup. They typically won't be seen as being "as clutch" as someone that consistently wins, because wins make the big plays more memorable. But if there were, for example, a guy in the NFL that was 100% when kicking a field goal at the end of the game with the game on the line, I'd consider him a clutch player because he does his job, and makes the big play when his team needs it.
I know I said I was leaving, but I just wanted to say that you have made some very good points. However, I am not quite ready to convert to your style of interpretation on the matter. Good discussion.

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01-05-2007, 12:00 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
Advantage me.

My addiction has gotten so bad I get a splitting headache if I don't drink coffee in the morning.
And I thought I was the only one!

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01-05-2007, 12:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You had changed from talking about clutch seemingly to talking about contribution or production.
i should have worded it better, for example what play was more important contribution/production Fernando's two goals or Hemmers two goals, hemmers because they came at the most important time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Does Hemsky score without Smyth getting him the puck? Does hemsky score without Stefan being a doorknob?

j/k
(not just addressed to you) but in the end it is the actual scoring of the goal that matters in any sport because that is what you try to do in any sport. Was it a great pass by Smyth, yeah but there is more pressure on Hemsky to score then there was on Smyth to pass. Smyth did not have a play to the net and even if he screwed up Stoll was there for support while Hemmer was alone, had one shot to score with little time, going in on one of the best breakaway goalies in the league.

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01-05-2007, 12:06 PM
  #59
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I don't think some understand what PDO was saying in his initial post in this thread. He isn't saying that Hemsky is the best player in the NHL, he's saying he's the most clutch!

I don't know about all time, but right now, when the chips are down, I was Ales on the ice. This guy is unbelievable when it matters most. The road to hockey greatness is littered with fantastic players who can't do it when it REALLY means something (hello Pavel Datsyuk, Daniel Alfredsson etc.) Ales Hemsky performs under the greatest pressure, which puts him in a whole new category of player. Now all he has to do is work on his consistency and he will be an elite player in this league and if I can be so bold... a future HOF'er.

Oh and of course the king of clutch on this team is Ryan Smyth... he never fails to amaze me... what a pass!

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01-05-2007, 12:16 PM
  #60
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I just saw this video from the Dallas game and though you boys would like it

I'm sure it's been posted but if not enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDbEX666G3Y

ADD - Just noticed it on the other post... different angle though

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01-05-2007, 01:38 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Actually, he just needs to not be so shi##y so often. As I said earlier, he has been better lately. But, as we saw earlier in the year, Hemsky tends to treat giveaways like "Donuts" - as one particular coach has mentioned.

Hemsky stops the giveaways and continues to give effort without the puck and he will be well liked. Contempt for Hemksy is simply because he has deserved it.

As I said, he has been better lately.

Hey Ogo:

Contempt? Contempt is usually reserved for mass murders or evil dictators. It seems a little harsh to feel that toward a hockey player that from what I can tell cares about his team.

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01-05-2007, 01:47 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Relax a little. Breathe.

He has been better lately, I will give him that. Resume that could put most NHLers to shame???? Nah.

He is progressing and that is good. I am certainly not going to speak about him like I do Crosby and Ovechkin.
When did I say he is the best young player in the game?

I said if all the chips are on the table, he's the guy I want to have the puck. He's the guy who I want on the ice in OT and the last minute of the game.

Hemsky has a huge knack for scoring goals with only a few minutes left to either tie the game up or send take the lead. Not only have these goals consistently come, they still came in the playoffs.

Off the top of my head..

Game 81 vs Anaheim. 1:00 to go and he scores, locking up the playoffs for the Oilers.

~ Game 70 vs San Jose. 1:00 to go and he scores a hilight reel goal to win it for the Oilers.

Detroit, Game 6. You remember.

Carolina, Game 1, goes down the ice like a man on a mission and ties the game up late in the third.

Last night.

Very few NHL players can say they've scored as many meaningful goals late in games as Hemsky. That's an accomplishment.

Replacement:

Clutch is an interesting word. Luck is a word that can often be used to replace it

I'll come back with something on this later.

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