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Fighting in Beer Leagues

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Old
12-06-2013, 11:19 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
No. Arguing an non-penalty call, offside, icing etc, gets a misconduct without a 2 minute minor. Likewise a non-call - why a penalty or any other call was not made.
No, sorry, that;s not how it happens.

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12-06-2013, 11:20 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
No. Arguing an non-penalty call, offside, icing etc, gets a misconduct without a 2 minute minor. Likewise a non-call - why a penalty or any other call was not made.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26327


Last edited by sjmay*: 12-06-2013 at 11:21 AM. Reason: wrong link
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12-06-2013, 06:15 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
Not sure what post you are referring to, but when it comes to fights in men's league, you let them go, let them go, let them go,

As soon as you step in, one of them will invetiably, either A.) crack you in the face, or B.) fall down on our knee and twist it etc,

Half of the "fights" in men's league are by guys that can't stand up, and don't know enough to move the sticks and gloves out of the way so that doesn't happen,

So, no, I will never break up a fight in men's league until they are tired and hugging each other, they had the balls to drop them and fight, they can deal with the repercussions of that monumentally stupid decision.
Wow that's strange. In NY every men's league fight I've ever seen was immediately broken up by the refs. I guess the refs in NY aren't total wusses though.

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12-06-2013, 06:19 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
Wow that's strange. In NY every men's league fight I've ever seen was immediately broken up by the refs. I guess the refs in NY aren't total wusses though.
LOL they probably still care, or it's a mandate from the league.

The leagues I do have no such mandate, and like I said, I don't care enough to get injured because two morons made a bad decision.

I've broken up too many fights in juniors, college, etc. No need to do it in beer league, they can suffer the consequences all by themselves...

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12-06-2013, 06:50 PM
  #205
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Indeed. If two adults want to be stupid and fight, I'll let them.

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12-06-2013, 10:49 PM
  #206
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CARHA / Hockey Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
No, sorry, that;s not how it happens.
NHL does not apply to adult hockey in Canada. CARHA does

www.carhahockey.ca

rule book available under referees. Note the three minor rule, and other rules that facilitate the referees work.

Also Hockey Canada.

www.hockeycanada.ca

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12-07-2013, 03:32 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
LOL they probably still care, or it's a mandate from the league.

The leagues I do have no such mandate, and like I said, I don't care enough to get injured because two morons made a bad decision.

I've broken up too many fights in juniors, college, etc. No need to do it in beer league, they can suffer the consequences all by themselves...
You sound like a solid ref.

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12-07-2013, 09:17 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
NHL does not apply to adult hockey in Canada. CARHA does

www.carhahockey.ca

rule book available under referees. Note the three minor rule, and other rules that facilitate the referees work.

Also Hockey Canada.

www.hockeycanada.ca
Thanks for the links, you probably should have read them,

Rule 46, (a) Should a player or team official challenge the rulings of an official or display unsportsmanlike conduct, he must be assessed, a minor for....unsportsmanslike conduct.

Not a 10, not a game, a MINOR.

Not for delay of game, for UNSPORTSMANLIKE,

It's a simple concept.

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12-07-2013, 11:09 AM
  #209
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46(b) & (e)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
Thanks for the links, you probably should have read them,

Rule 46, (a) Should a player or team official challenge the rulings of an official or display unsportsmanlike conduct, he must be assessed, a minor for....unsportsmanslike conduct.

Not a 10, not a game, a MINOR.

Not for delay of game, for UNSPORTSMANLIKE,

It's a simple concept.
Read CARHA beyond 46(A). 46(B) - 1.),2.),3) plus 46 (E),(F),(G),(H), no minor mandated.

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12-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Read CARHA beyond 46(A). 46(B) - 1.),2.),3) plus 46 (E),(F),(G),(H), no minor mandated.
I don't think you are understanding this.

If a player challenges or argues a ruling, a call, he shall be assessed a two minute minor for unsporstmanlike conduct.

46B states that if he PERSISTS, then a 10 minute call shall be assessed.

46E states that if a player does not immediately go to the box, then a 10 shall be assessed, mentions nothing about a player arguing a call.

46F states that a player shall receive a misconduct, if he continues to incite an opponent after a warning.

46G states that if a player engages in taunts of a discrimantory nature, then a game misconduct shall be assessed, nothing about arguing a call

46H states that a player shall be assessed a misconduct if they enter the referee's crease, again, nothing about arguing a call.

The only rules that you mentioned that state ANYTHING about arguing a call is 46A and 46B,

46A states that a minor shall be assessed
46 B states that a misconduct shall be assessed if they persist.

Again, it's not hard, just read the rules that you quoted.

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12-07-2013, 01:02 PM
  #211
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Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
I don't think you are understanding this.

If a player challenges or argues a ruling, a call, he shall be assessed a two minute minor for unsporstmanlike conduct.

46B states that if he PERSISTS, then a 10 minute call shall be assessed.

46E states that if a player does not immediately go to the box, then a 10 shall be assessed, mentions nothing about a player arguing a call.

46F states that a player shall receive a misconduct, if he continues to incite an opponent after a warning.

46G states that if a player engages in taunts of a discrimantory nature, then a game misconduct shall be assessed, nothing about arguing a call

46H states that a player shall be assessed a misconduct if they enter the referee's crease, again, nothing about arguing a call.

The only rules that you mentioned that state ANYTHING about arguing a call is 46A and 46B,

46A states that a minor shall be assessed
46 B states that a misconduct shall be assessed if they persist.

Again, it's not hard, just read the rules that you quoted.
Rule 46 Misconduct
Team Officials shall be responsible for their conduct and that of their players at all times. They must endeavor to prevent disorderly conduct before, during, or after the game, on or off the ice, and any place in the rink. The Referee may assess penalties to any of the above officials for failure to do so and shall report full details of the incident to the Chairman.
(a) Should a player or team official challenge the rulings of an official or display unsportsmanlike conduct, he must be assessed a minor for unsportsmanlike conduct, followed by a misconduct or game misconduct if he persists.
(Note): A Referee is required to assess a Minor penalty under this rule before assessing the Misconduct or Game Misconduct
(b) A Misconduct penalty shall be assessed to any player or team official who:
1) uses obscene, profane or abusive language or gestures to any person;
2) persists in disputing or shows disrespect for the ruling of any official;
3) intentionally knocks or shoots the puck out of the reach of an official who is retrieving it.
A player or team official who, after receiving a Misconduct penalty, persists in any of the actions of (b) above shall be assessed a Game Misconduct penalty

The rules distinguish between a player(the player penalized) and any player - beyond the the penalized. If "any" player persists they may get a misconduct. So the minor must be assessed to the first not to the subsequent players/officials. Note the difference between challenge in (a) and persists that initiates(b/2).

Not going to the box(E) thru (H) may be viewed as continuations.

(E) immediately, a form of arguing a call as it is viewed as persisting and/or disrespectful.

(F) & (G) some are very creative here indirectly targeting the call and referee.

(H) Why would they be entering the referee`s crease ?

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12-07-2013, 02:38 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Rule 46 Misconduct
Team Officials shall be responsible for their conduct and that of their players at all times. They must endeavor to prevent disorderly conduct before, during, or after the game, on or off the ice, and any place in the rink. The Referee may assess penalties to any of the above officials for failure to do so and shall report full details of the incident to the Chairman.
(a) Should a player or team official challenge the rulings of an official or display unsportsmanlike conduct, he must be assessed a minor for unsportsmanlike conduct, followed by a misconduct or game misconduct if he persists.
(Note): A Referee is required to assess a Minor penalty under this rule before assessing the Misconduct or Game Misconduct
(b) A Misconduct penalty shall be assessed to any player or team official who:
1) uses obscene, profane or abusive language or gestures to any person;
2) persists in disputing or shows disrespect for the ruling of any official;
3) intentionally knocks or shoots the puck out of the reach of an official who is retrieving it.
A player or team official who, after receiving a Misconduct penalty, persists in any of the actions of (b) above shall be assessed a Game Misconduct penalty

The rules distinguish between a player(the player penalized) and any player - beyond the the penalized. If "any" player persists they may get a misconduct. So the minor must be assessed to the first not to the subsequent players/officials. Note the difference between challenge in (a) and persists that initiates(b/2).

Not going to the box(E) thru (H) may be viewed as continuations.

(E) immediately, a form of arguing a call as it is viewed as persisting and/or disrespectful.

(F) & (G) some are very creative here indirectly targeting the call and referee.

(H) Why would they be entering the referee`s crease ?
Please read 46A again, no need to go beyond 46B unless a player PERSISTS.

46A clearly states a minor must be assessed. Which directly contradicts your theory that a minor is not given, does it not?

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12-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #213
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No

Quote:
Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
Please read 46A again, no need to go beyond 46B unless a player PERSISTS.

46A clearly states a minor must be assessed. Which directly contradicts your theory that a minor is not given, does it not?
No. The minor is assessed on the first challenge. 46A is very clearly in the singular instance distinguishing between the player or team official.

If any others(players or team officials), once the minor for unsportsmanlike conduct is called, persist challenging the same call, there is no additional minor just the misconduct(s).

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12-07-2013, 04:39 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
You give him a 10 minute misconduct. Basically the player may be entitled to an explanation of the penalty but once he starts debating, arguing or showing-up the referee the misconduct is justified.
So which is it?

What you stated here, or what you stated the post above?

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12-07-2013, 04:39 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
No. Arguing an non-penalty call, offside, icing etc, gets a misconduct without a 2 minute minor. Likewise a non-call - why a penalty or any other call was not made.
Here;s the 2nd time you said a minor is not given....

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12-07-2013, 04:40 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
No. The minor is assessed on the first challenge. 46A is very clearly in the singular instance distinguishing between the player or team official.

If any others(players or team officials), once the minor for unsportsmanlike conduct is called, persist challenging the same call, there is no additional minor just the misconduct(s).
And here you are saying there IS a minor given,

So I ask again, which is it?

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12-07-2013, 05:23 PM
  #217
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First or Second Challlenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by CABearshockey View Post
And here you are saying there IS a minor given,

So I ask again, which is it?
It is about understanding the latitude in the rules that lets the players decide the game and not the referees.

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12-07-2013, 08:00 PM
  #218
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Fghting in beer leagues? Seriously?

Motto should be "You drop the gloves, we call the cops"

Beer league fighting is basically street brawling, should have the same result.

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12-07-2013, 08:20 PM
  #219
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Fghting in beer leagues? Seriously?

Motto should be "You drop the gloves, we call the cops"

Beer league fighting is basically street brawling, should have the same result.
My point exactly, I am not there to babysit adults

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12-07-2013, 09:29 PM
  #220
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If two guys want to tussle, I'm not sure I see the problem.

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12-07-2013, 09:38 PM
  #221
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Try Contributing

^^^In Canada and elsewhere there are numerous police leagues, tournaments and fights do happen:

http://www.internationalpolicehockey.com/

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/new...ml?mobile=true

The referees and linesmen require latitude in handling related on ice situations of all kind.

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