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Let's face the truth, this is not a good team.

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Old
12-06-2013, 07:19 PM
  #276
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Our D is tougher than Chicago's and more effective.

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12-06-2013, 07:24 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Our D is tougher than Chicago's and more effective.
No it's not. Their D is better as a whole, much faster and better a playing the puck.

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12-06-2013, 07:29 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Our D is tougher than Chicago's and more effective.
Markov and Subban could be argued to be more effective for sure. That's about it.

Tougher? No.

And definitely not as good at clearing the crease.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 12-06-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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12-06-2013, 08:07 PM
  #279
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Markov and Subban could be argued to be more effective for sure. That's about it.

Tougher? No.

And definitely not as good at clearing the crease.
Why are the tough crease-clearing D of Chicago allowing such a high opposition scoring percentage? They are 18th in GA while MTL is 2nd and allow .70 more GA/G while giving up fewer shots. Either crawford is terrible (which I don't think he is) or that Chicago D gives up a lot of high percentage scoring opportunities. Chicago has more to fix on the back end than we do. They're just blessed with a ridiculous top 6 that score goals at will which is why they win games.

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12-06-2013, 08:14 PM
  #280
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Why are the tough crease-clearing D of Chicago allowing such a high opposition scoring percentage? They are 18th in GA while MTL is 2nd and allow .70 more GA/G while giving up fewer shots. Either crawford is terrible (which I don't think he is) or that Chicago D gives up a lot of high percentage scoring opportunities. Chicago has more to fix on the back end than we do. They're just blessed with a ridiculous top 6 that score goals at will which is why they win games.
Because we have Carey Price. If we didn't have Carey Price the numbers would be a lot different.

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12-06-2013, 08:17 PM
  #281
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A few weeks I thought we should tank. Now, I think we have 32.7% chance of winning the cup, 54% chance of losing in the finals. 94% chance we make it to the conference finals.

Good times ahead!!!!!

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12-06-2013, 08:27 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
A few weeks I thought we should tank. Now, I think we have 32.7% chance of winning the cup, 54% chance of losing in the finals. 94% chance we make it to the conference finals.

Good times ahead!!!!!
wow, you are an optimist. I will go with 75% that we do not make it to 2-nd round.

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12-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Because we have Carey Price. If we didn't have Carey Price the numbers would be a lot different.
And you could say the same for Boston, LA, Minnesota. Just about every year, the top teams have strong goaltending.

The goaltender is part of the team anyway.

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12-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
A few weeks I thought we should tank. Now, I think we have 32.7% chance of winning the cup, 54% chance of losing in the finals. 94% chance we make it to the conference finals.

Good times ahead!!!!!
really you thought we should tank? I know we didn't have the best start but TBO when I saw Price getting consistent night in and night out I knew we would be competitive and looking for a playoff spot.
Now I'm seeing some bright spots, Markov is returning to pre injury form, Subban continues to grow his game, and 3 lines that can legitimately score. Special teams are back to being our bread and butter and put this all together and it makes us a tough team to play. I know the winning streak won't last forever, but we have a realistic chance of finishing in top 3 in our division and top 5 in the east.

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12-06-2013, 08:29 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Because we have Carey Price. If we didn't have Carey Price the numbers would be a lot different.
We can't give all the credit to Price for MTL's defensive record. The D fill shooting lanes, blocks shots and clears rebounds very well. Price himself says it after most games.

I don't think we should add anything to the D except talent, if it comes available.

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12-06-2013, 08:40 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I love PK Subban. He's awesome in every way, but he's not great at clearing the crease dude. Next time the game is on, pay special attention to it. He fights the battles but he's not especially good at this. None of our guys are.

As for the guys up front, who other than Gallagher screens the goalie with any regularity? Do you think its coincidence that whatever line he goes onto becomes hot all of a sudden?

We're a good team. We do a lot of things really well and we're on the right track. But let's not pretend like this isn't an area that needs fixing. Big winger that will get dirty and big #3 blueliner. We get that (and maybe get rid of a smurf or two) and this team is a legit contender.
Of course I agree size would help. But the point I was making the whole time was that meanness and toughness do not have a big correlation with playoff success, which is what you were saying.

Also, the defense has been very effective lately- much better than at the beginning of the season. I don't think it would be worth the cost to acquire a top 4 d-man, especially with all our top 4 guys playing so well and our top pairing being that dominant. A depth defense would be more worthwhile and cost much less.

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12-06-2013, 08:40 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're highly underestimating this team's ability to clear the crease, as you say. The Hawks won the Cup with the following defensemen: Keith, Oduya, Rozsival, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, Leddy. Can't convince me that they're better at it than ours to do that.
Yes, they are better at clearing the front of the net. At least they were last year in the POs.
But clearing the front of the net isn't everything. It's only one aspect, and with the way Price is playing, it doesn't seem to matter that much. That can change though in a PO series where you play every second night and all the opponent does is rush our net. Who knows?..However, if we can improve, there's no reason to stay complacent.
Having a guy like Hamrlik used to be in his earlier days with us would be a huge plus for us. Can you imagine having Markov-PK-Hamr type-Emelin right now on our D? That would be a very solid D.
However, Defense has always been a team game. You can have the best D group in the NHL, if all the team does is play offense and has sloppy defensive coverage, they won't have good defensive numbers. Same can be said for the opposite, we have a rather average group with a solid top pair, but our team defense is solid because the strong two way game of our forwards that it makes us look better. Well, that and having Price playing lights out.

I think our biggest issue considering this is up front. We have too many small guys, I doubt how much they'll have left in the tank come PO time. It's the same story every year.

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Old
12-06-2013, 08:43 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Also, the defense has been very effective lately- much better than at the beginning of the season. I don't think it would be worth the cost to acquire a top 4 d-man, especially with all our top 4 guys playing so well and our top pairing being that dominant. A depth defense would be more worthwhile and cost much less.
Usually, there's a selling team and a buying one. It's pretty rare that the selling team will ask for an established roster player, unless it's a problem for problem swap. So if we're buying a top 4 guy, it's likely going to cost us prospects and picks. I would have no issues getting rid of any prospect for the right D.

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Old
12-06-2013, 08:45 PM
  #289
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wow, you are an optimist. I will go with 75% that we do not make it to 2-nd round.
If Price can have a save percentage of .920 and better in the playoffs Habs should easily reach the 2nd round with decent chance to reach the 3rd round and better.

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12-06-2013, 08:48 PM
  #290
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wow, you are an optimist. I will go with 75% that we do not make it to 2-nd round.
That sounds about right, especially if we play ottawa again lol

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Old
12-06-2013, 08:52 PM
  #291
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The Chicago comparison is interesting in the sense that both teams have two defensive standouts, and hjalmarsson reminds me of diaz.

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12-06-2013, 08:55 PM
  #292
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The Chicago comparison is interesting in the sense that both teams have two defensive standouts, and hjalmarsson reminds me of diaz.
really? i find he looks exactly like emelin out there.

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12-06-2013, 08:57 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
The Chicago comparison is interesting in the sense that both teams have two defensive standouts, and hjalmarsson reminds me of diaz.
Omg seriously no. Hjalmarsson is nothing like diaz. The guy is 6'3, a real bull that wins one on one battles along the boards, hits violently. Much more similar to Emelin.

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12-06-2013, 09:19 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
So 20 million is the low-end, 26 is the ceiling? Assuming the 20 million number counts with Markov off the books?

Subban - Roughly 5 million increase
Markov - roughly 5-6 to retain
Diaz - 3 Million
Eller - 4-5 million
Gionta 4 million

It will be close to keep everyone if everything remains the same and the cap goes up as speculated, but making significant improvements will be difficult without a few trades.

I like Gionta, but might be inclined to look for a 6 foot 20 goal scorer instead if we can manage that cap-wise.
Markov might take a home town discount this contract.
Gionta IMO could be signed at 3million especially if we are contending near the top of the conference instead of middle of the pack. I mean its amazing how much dough players will give up when they think their team has a chance at a cup.\
If gio gets greedy we could always let him go.
however those 6 foot 20goal men arent as readily available as we think , look how much clowe and clarkson got over paid because they were grit. unbelievable.

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12-06-2013, 09:33 PM
  #295
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And you could say the same for Boston, LA, Minnesota. Just about every year, the top teams have strong goaltending.

The goaltender is part of the team anyway.
Well sure. But that's not what we're discussing. The poster asked why we were so different in terms of goals against and Carey Price is the reason.

Chicago is probably also suffering from a little Stanley Cup hangover as well... they'll improve as the year goes on. Still very early and they're too good to be 18th in GA (assuming the poster's stats are right.)
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We can't give all the credit to Price for MTL's defensive record. The D fill shooting lanes, blocks shots and clears rebounds very well. Price himself says it after most games.

I don't think we should add anything to the D except talent, if it comes available.
The D has been a lot better since Emelin's return. Before that we were very inconsistent.
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Of course I agree size would help. But the point I was making the whole time was that meanness and toughness do not have a big correlation with playoff success, which is what you were saying.
There's a story about the Oilers coming off the ice after their Stanley cup loss to the Islanders and passing by the Islanders dressing room and seeing the players all black and blue. They said that's when they learned what it takes to win.

Go watch last year's finals. Watch Chara vs Toews. Patrick Kane got the glory but Toews did the dirty work. Toews was mostly ineffective in the postseason last year believe it or not. He didn't really show up until game 3. But once he did, he was in the crease all the time. He gave Kane the time and space he needed to do his stuff. And the series turned around. Kane was well deserving of the Conn Smythe and he was the right choice but Toews played a huge role. He wasn't the only one though... Bicknell was also in Chara's face all the time, Bolland too.

That's what we're lacking on this team. Gallagher is very good at it but he's a pint sized smurf. Add a big guy causing havoc and we'll be a lot better.

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Also, the defense has been very effective lately- much better than at the beginning of the season. I don't think it would be worth the cost to acquire a top 4 d-man, especially with all our top 4 guys playing so well and our top pairing being that dominant. A depth defense would be more worthwhile and cost much less.
I don't disagree that it's been better.

But yes, a top four blueliner would be worth the cost. We're going to need a big guy back there if we want to go all the way. And going all the way is all that matters. Either go for it or don't. Trade Markov and fight for another day or keep him and deal prospects. Pick a direction and do it.

Could we win the cup? I guess we could. The East sucks and we could somehow get there. But it would be a huge surprise.

If we can get a big blueliner and big winger though, we'll be legit contenders.
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Yes, they are better at clearing the front of the net. At least they were last year in the POs.
Chicago was better at both ends of the ice. Esp on offense.
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But clearing the front of the net isn't everything. It's only one aspect, and with the way Price is playing, it doesn't seem to matter that much. That can change though in a PO series where you play every second night and all the opponent does is rush our net. Who knows?..However, if we can improve, there's no reason to stay complacent.
No, its not everything. And we've got guys who play with the puck very well. But a big blueliner who could actually help out in the dirty areas and be effective (ie not Murray) would make our D really strong and make us more versatile.

And let's face it, one injury to that D and we're back to having Bouillurray again.

And up front... we have to get bigger if we want to win.

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Old
12-06-2013, 09:53 PM
  #296
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Usually, there's a selling team and a buying one. It's pretty rare that the selling team will ask for an established roster player, unless it's a problem for problem swap. So if we're buying a top 4 guy, it's likely going to cost us prospects and picks. I would have no issues getting rid of any prospect for the right D.
I just don't think that it is smart to move prospects and picks when the core of this team is so young, especially if it's for a rental like you seem to imply. We are still building, even if the team is playing well.

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There's a story about the Oilers coming off the ice after their Stanley cup loss to the Islanders and passing by the Islanders dressing room and seeing the players all black and blue. They said that's when they learned what it takes to win.

Go watch last year's finals. Watch Chara vs Toews. Patrick Kane got the glory but Toews did the dirty work. Toews was mostly ineffective in the postseason last year believe it or not. He didn't really show up until game 3. But once he did, he was in the crease all the time. He gave Kane the time and space he needed to do his stuff. And the series turned around. Kane was well deserving of the Conn Smythe and he was the right choice but Toews played a huge role. He wasn't the only one though... Bicknell was also in Chara's face all the time, Bolland too.

That's what we're lacking on this team. Gallagher is very good at it but he's a pint sized smurf. Add a big guy causing havoc and we'll be a lot better.
Toews was very effective, and has always been a player that can really bring the intangibles. But that doesn't mean being mean is necessary for a hockey team to succeed in the playoffs, don't you agree? It would be nice to acquire these assets that you want, but you also have to realize we have some assets that other top contenders don't as well. The team will never be perfect.

You were saying that Chicago has a better defense than us, and have the crease clearing you seem to want, but statistically they are letting in more goals than us. That's mainly because we have a better goalie. We can beat any team in the league with what we've got right now, so why waste future assets for rentals? You talk as if a top 4 D or a top 9 power forward are easy to acquire, but EVERY team wants these players and it would cost us a lot. It's not worth it for a team like us, with a young core, to trade huge prospects or picks for a player, especially if it's a deadline rental.

At the end of the day, I think you understand my main point was that the Montreal Canadiens do not need to be "mean" in order to win. We really don't.

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Old
12-06-2013, 10:08 PM
  #297
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This thread is priceless. Win a few, we are awesome, cup contenders. Lose 2 in a row, nothing but a garbage roster all should be traded.

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12-06-2013, 10:10 PM
  #298
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This thread is priceless. Win a few, we are awesome, cup contenders. Lose 2 in a row, nothing but a garbage roster all should be traded.
Funny to think we just might be something in between.

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12-06-2013, 10:15 PM
  #299
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Funny to think we just might be something in between.
We're something in between. But we could be closer to the former than the latter if we made the right moves. And its tragic that we went for Briere in the offseason.

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12-06-2013, 10:18 PM
  #300
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We're something in between. But we could be closer to the former than the latter if we made the right moves. And its tragic that we went for Briere in the offseason.
Yeah, Briere has been decent and has surprisingly good chemistry with Plekanec, but that move still baffles me when we really could have targetted a difference maker up there.

The thing is, this is probably a good but not great team, but the east is so weak this year all it could take is a little luck to make a run. That's why every little move made right now matters.

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