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Sat., Dec. 7, 2013|Flyers 1 at Stars 5 (Timonen: skated Dec. 9 at OTT, will play)

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Old
12-07-2013, 04:11 PM
  #51
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It could be a finger injury.
"Eh. I have nine others."

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Old
12-07-2013, 04:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Pretty much. The defense moves the puck adequately enough. The forwards are a mess when moving the puck through the neutral zone.
It's also important to note that Streit outproduced Carle on an inferior team every single year.


It stands to reason that Carle would be even less effective than Streit when plugged into his spot.

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12-07-2013, 04:13 PM
  #53
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Rinaldo has a some major screws loose upstairs.

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Old
12-07-2013, 04:14 PM
  #54
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Again: Giroux, Couturier, Mason. My only untouchables.

I'd also rather keep Read, Coburn and Grossmann, but id deal them if the deal obviously made the team better.

Anyone else could disappear for all I care.

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12-07-2013, 04:18 PM
  #55
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Raffl is a terrible hockey player..

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12-07-2013, 04:19 PM
  #56
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Hartnell would be addition by subtraction at this point. I hate knowing that they may have to trade Simmonds because they can't move Hartnell.

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12-07-2013, 04:20 PM
  #57
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"Eh. I have nine others."

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Awesome....

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12-07-2013, 04:25 PM
  #58
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It's weak now, it would be a complete disaster with Carle.


Remember his chances on the point? It was terrible. Imagining this PP with Carle trying to run it gives me a fever.


The main problem with a guy like Streit (and Carle, too) is if the top 6 is a trainwreck, they aren't going to produce. Carle wouldn't be faring any better, at all. Considering his deficiencies on the PP, he'd be worse.
Last time I checked, Carle was the #1 defenseman on a team in playoff position.

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12-07-2013, 04:27 PM
  #59
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Last time I checked, Carle was the #1 defenseman on a team in playoff position.
Yeah, no he's not. Hedman is far more important.

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12-07-2013, 04:29 PM
  #60
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Last time I checked, Carle was the #1 defenseman on a team in playoff position.

You may want to check again. He's not their #1.


You've done nothing to disprove anything I said, either. If anything you're helping reinforce my point. TB has a better offense than Philly, so he benefits. Drop him here, he'd be worse than Streit.

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12-07-2013, 04:30 PM
  #61
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I had the game on while I was putting up Christmas stuff so I wasn't fully invested in the game, and yet I still feel like I saw too much. I didn't see anything positive in that mess. At least we're playing the slumpbusters next.

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12-07-2013, 04:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You may want to check again. He's not their #1.
Matt Carle: 21:49 TOI/G
Victor Hedman: 21:19 TOI/G

Carle has gone down in ice time recently, but he was their #1 through most of the season.
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You've done nothing to disprove anything I said, either. If anything you're helping reinforce my point. TB has a better offense than Philly, so he benefits. Drop him here, he'd be worse than Streit.
That makes no sense, since I'm talking about overall importance to the team and not offensive production. Carle can't QB a powerplay, but he's a good puck mover even strength (which is why he was top 10 in even strength scoring for defensemen the past 3 seasons).

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12-07-2013, 04:35 PM
  #63
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Matt Carle: 21:49 TOI/G
Victor Hedman: 21:19 TOI/G
That means nothing. If anything, it just shows that they play all three of their pairs pretty evenly. You also have to look at the quality of their competition. Carle gets pretty easy minutes from what I've seen.

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12-07-2013, 04:36 PM
  #64
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what the hell was this idiot thinking when he signed Streit,Hartnell maybe he makes agreement with FA and he gets something like 10% of their salaries

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12-07-2013, 04:50 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Matt Carle: 21:49 TOI/G
Victor Hedman: 21:19 TOI/G

Carle has gone down in ice time recently, but he was their #1 through most of the season.

That makes no sense, since I'm talking about overall importance to the team and not offensive production. Carle can't QB a powerplay, but he's a good puck mover even strength (which is why he was top 10 in even strength scoring for defensemen the past 3 seasons).
Why would Carle be any more important to the Flyers than Streit is? The fact that he can't QB a PP is a pretty damning blow right there.

Carle racked up his points thanks to the forwards he played with and sheer ice time out of necessity. The Flyers offense produced at a lower rate when he was on the ice because he was so easy to defend against, thanks to his awful shot. All he can do is pass, and when all he has to pass it to are our current crop of forwards it wouldn't bode well for him at all.

Streit can at least shoot, and when he does start shooting it opens up more options. Unfortunately for him, he's giving it to our group of ****ing forwards.

Anyone who thinks Carle would be an improvement on Streit is really overestimating how much impact Carle has or is capable of having. The only dmen in the league who could step in and actually improve or drive the offense, instead of suffer as a component of the offense as a whole, are guys like Karlsson or Subban, or Green before his long string of injuries. Or Pronger .

Once again, remember that Streit has outproduced Carle across the board on worse teams and with worse offenses for years. There's zero reason to believe he would be faring any better in Streit's place, and plenty of reason to believe he'd be faring worse.

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12-07-2013, 04:57 PM
  #66
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The thing that bothers me with this team is that there's not many ways to address this team's needs at the moment other then waiting it out. Can't move our 1st because it's looking like it might be a really quality pick in terms of placement and we might not even make the playoffs. Our top six is horrible at the moment, but Giroux is what our offense is built around so can't really trade him and the rest of the top six just doesn't have a whole hell lot of a value. Could package some together to net a great return, but we also don't have the players to fill in any holes in the top six. Already have Raffl playing on the second line with Lecavalier out. The Couturier line draws too much defensive responsibility to put any offensive onus on them.
Bingo!!! Voracek has lost his sense of positioning out there. He is constantly chasing the puck, around the boards, and around the ice (Both zones). He needs to start thinking a step ahead. That's pee-wee hockey.

G hits LOTS of posts.... The Philly crew really down plays it. Maybe G should start doing something, like for every post we keep a running tally and he makes a charitable donation (Most likely to a charity that deals with kids getting their tongues stuck to posts in winter.) Like #Hartnelldown

Hartnell has shown, over the past 2 seasons, that his career has hit it's apex, and he should probably start playing 2nd/3rd line roles. By no means is he done, but 2010 is soooo, uh, 2010.

In what'll probably garner a lot of heat, I like Simmonds, I think he gets overlooked because he's a battler. The guy is fast, and draws a lot of penalties racing into the offensive zone. What would help him is if Santa brought him a finishing touch for Christmas.

Both the Schenn Brothers get a bad rap. Luke played well and stayed in position for a majority of the game and was easily one of the better Dmen tonight. Brayden is lined up on a third line with Raffl and Simmonds. There'll be a lot of banging going on and scrums in the offensive zone, but not a lot of scoring.

Streits contract does suck, but in 2-3 years it won't be as horrible of a hit when the cap is at 80M. Hopefully he stops that No-Look nonsense.

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12-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #67
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missed most of the game (thankfully it seems).


so still no news on why Zac went full Rtard? ?

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12-07-2013, 05:08 PM
  #68
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This team needs to change something, player-personnel wise. We are a mediocre team in the worst division in hockey. Anyone who thinks other wise needs their eyes checked...

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12-07-2013, 05:27 PM
  #69
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missed most of the game (thankfully it seems).


so still no news on why Zac went full Rtard? ?
Because he is Rinaldo?

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12-07-2013, 05:36 PM
  #70
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Rinaldo is useless without a proper mentor, which the team doesn't seem to have right now

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12-07-2013, 06:11 PM
  #71
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Rinaldo is useless without a proper mentor, which the team doesn't seem to have right now
Not on the ice they don't, but off the ice there's always Lappy who could give him mentoring on how to be an effective 4th liner (even though Lappy scored at a pace that Rinaldo only can have wet dreams about..)

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12-07-2013, 06:46 PM
  #72
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Last time I checked, Carle was the #1 defenseman on a team in playoff position.
Saying "on a team in playoff position" isn't saying much considering how weak the East is and that that statement disregards team strengths and weaknesses as well as seeding. It's also a huge stretch to call Carle their number one.

Tampa is where they are because of a great start, having Steven Stamkos on their team (prior to the tibia injury), and Ben Bishop. Lately they've been playing as bad or worse then us. Last 10:

Philly: 6-4-0
Tampa: 4-5-1

Things seem to be evening out for them and they are most definitely not a team that's deep in D or even can be listed as a strength at D.

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12-07-2013, 06:56 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Why would Carle be any more important to the Flyers than Streit is? The fact that he can't QB a PP is a pretty damning blow right there.

Carle racked up his points thanks to the forwards he played with and sheer ice time out of necessity. The Flyers offense produced at a lower rate when he was on the ice because he was so easy to defend against, thanks to his awful shot. All he can do is pass, and when all he has to pass it to are our current crop of forwards it wouldn't bode well for him at all.

Streit can at least shoot, and when he does start shooting it opens up more options. Unfortunately for him, he's giving it to our group of ****ing forwards.

Anyone who thinks Carle would be an improvement on Streit is really overestimating how much impact Carle has or is capable of having. The only dmen in the league who could step in and actually improve or drive the offense, instead of suffer as a component of the offense as a whole, are guys like Karlsson or Subban, or Green before his long string of injuries. Or Pronger .

Once again, remember that Streit has outproduced Carle across the board on worse teams and with worse offenses for years. There's zero reason to believe he would be faring any better in Streit's place, and plenty of reason to believe he'd be faring worse.
Carle would improve this team because he's a fluid puckmover on the breakout, something this team sorely lacks. It's why he gets lots of ice time on top teams. Flyers fans liked to rip on him because he had some frustrating pitfalls, but ignored a lot of the subtle things he did right that earned the coaches' trust.

And yeah, Streit was a much better offensive producer in his prime, but now he's aging and tremendously ineffective. I'd much rather have Carle in his prime, but maybe I'm just completely nuts
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The only dmen in the league who could step in and actually improve or drive the offense, instead of suffer as a component of the offense as a whole, are guys like Karlsson or Subban, or Green before his long string of injuries. Or Pronger .
Also this is ridiculous. There are a ton of defensemen in the league who would drastically improve the Flyers offense other than the ones you mentioned. You're just making excuses for Streit sucking.

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Old
12-07-2013, 07:03 PM
  #74
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Carle would be a marginal improvement at best. Our D is much stronger then our forward group at the moment and much deeper as well. We have nine D on the roster for crying out loud. Mason is great so he also helps.

Being the 29th place team in goals for (only ahead of Buffalo who is in a league of their own in terms of suck) is by far the biggest problem and that definitely has a lot to do with our top six just being horrible outside of Giroux getting his usual points.

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12-07-2013, 07:11 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Carle would improve this team because he's a fluid puckmover on the breakout, something this team sorely lacks. It's why he gets lots of ice time on top teams. Flyers fans liked to rip on him because he had some frustrating pitfalls, but ignored a lot of the subtle things he did right that earned the coaches' trust.

And yeah, Streit was a much better offensive producer in his prime, but now he's aging and tremendously ineffective. I'd much rather have Carle in his prime, but maybe I'm just completely nuts
Streit was a much better offensive producer as soon as last season, by a wide margin. Drop him on a completely anemic offense and his production dries up. Carle would absolutely do worse. There's a reason every nonbiased outside fan would have told you Streit is better than Carle coming into this season.

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Also this is ridiculous. There are a ton of defensemen in the league who would drastically improve the Flyers offense other than the ones you mentioned. You're just making excuses for Streit sucking.
OK.

Go ahead and name all these Dmen who would instantly improve our offense, instead of falling victim to it. I guarantee they're all a very clear step above Carle.

Oh, and going back to your TOI argument for him being a #1...remember when he led the Flyers in TOI yet wasn't the #1?

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