HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bad Calls

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2013, 11:23 PM
  #1
zuckera1
#35
 
zuckera1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 393
vCash: 500
Bad Calls

I've been a Ranger fan for all of my 21 years of life. I hope this is only sour grapes on my part but over the years it seems like our team is ALWAYS the victim of poor calls from either officials or the "experts" up in Toronto.

I wish there were statistics on all of this. It seems like over the last few years almost every call that gets reviewed in Toronto goes against us. This year I believe there have been 6/7 reviewed goals and none of them have gone our way. The inconsistency on these "kicked" goals is a flat out joke at this point, and everyone around the team with a brain knows it.

Does anyone else feel this way? The NHL seems to hate all things New York and I hope this isn't the case. Thoughts?

zuckera1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2013, 11:30 PM
  #2
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,642
vCash: 500
The goal call was correct tonight...I just wish they were consistent.

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2013, 11:35 PM
  #3
Megustaelhockey
Global Moderator
Hybrid icing
 
Megustaelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,148
vCash: 500
Sour grapes. Bad calls get cancelled out by better play.

Megustaelhockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:10 AM
  #4
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,046
vCash: 500
All teams win and lose calls. All fan-bases think losing calls is unique to them.

__________________
Ail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:19 AM
  #5
Aufheben
Moderator
The jam must flow...
 
Aufheben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Country: Angola
Posts: 10,389
vCash: 130
I think it's bad luck, and I think good teams make their own luck, and I think this year's team just isn't that great.

And I think the NHL is incompetent and inconsistent on a number of issues.

Come on, we're the 2nd most valuable franchise in the league, why in God's name would they even want us to lose to a team isn't nearly as popular or profitable?

^ The cat lover nailed it: Every fanbase thinks all the bs is always against them (Except Penguins fans). The NHL [presumably] loves the Rangers, we're the only team with TWO Outdoor games this year, FFS.


Last edited by Aufheben: 12-08-2013 at 01:25 AM.
Aufheben is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:28 AM
  #6
stan the caddy
Registered User
 
stan the caddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
I've been a Ranger fan for all of my 21 years of life. I hope this is only sour grapes on my part but over the years it seems like our team is ALWAYS the victim of poor calls from either officials or the "experts" up in Toronto.

I wish there were statistics on all of this. It seems like over the last few years almost every call that gets reviewed in Toronto goes against us. This year I believe there have been 6/7 reviewed goals and none of them have gone our way. The inconsistency on these "kicked" goals is a flat out joke at this point, and everyone around the team with a brain knows it.

Does anyone else feel this way? The NHL seems to hate all things New York and I hope this isn't the case. Thoughts?
It's a conspiracy!

stan the caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:34 AM
  #7
StaalWars
TeaOrrCoffey
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,168
vCash: 500
Yes, the NHL wants one of its biggest revenue producing teams to do poorly and instructs its referees to make sure that happens.

StaalWars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:53 AM
  #8
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
I think it's bad luck, and I think good teams make their own luck, and I think this year's team just isn't that great.

And I think the NHL is incompetent and inconsistent on a number of issues.

Come on, we're the 2nd most valuable franchise in the league, why in God's name would they even want us to lose to a team isn't nearly as popular or profitable?

^ The cat lover nailed it: Every fanbase thinks all the bs is always against them (Except Penguins fans). The NHL [presumably] loves the Rangers, we're the only team with TWO Outdoor games this year, FFS.
One of the few things I agree with AV on is about the reviews: They make it up as they go. Nothing against the Rangers, they are just not sure what "distinct" means. Needs to be clarified.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 03:56 AM
  #9
OnlyRevolutions
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 594
vCash: 500
It is what it is. Good teams find a way to win. This team blew their leads and opportunities. They had a lead and they sat back. They can say whatever they want in the post-game, try to b/s out of it with some explanation about trying harder and all that, but when it comes down to it, we had a chance at this game and blew it.

OnlyRevolutions is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 05:40 AM
  #10
Fanned On It
Registered User
 
Fanned On It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
The goal call was correct tonight...I just wish they were consistent.
Wait what? I watched the game on GCL and watched the replay multiple times and Jansen clearly booted the puck into the net with his skate on purpose...

Fanned On It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 06:55 AM
  #11
Pistachio
I love your mother
 
Pistachio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 166
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
Wait what? I watched the game on GCL and watched the replay multiple times and Jansen clearly booted the puck into the net with his skate on purpose...
Indeed, the replay they showed right before the ref called it, (first time they showed that angle) clearly shows he pushes his foot along the ice. Not just gliding, but he accelerated his entire leg to get more momentum on the puck.

Pistachio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 07:00 AM
  #12
Giacomin
Registered User
 
Giacomin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
The goal call was correct tonight...I just wish they were consistent.
How was that?

Giacomin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 07:04 AM
  #13
RangersFan
Registered User
 
RangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: LA, CA & NY, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,660
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangersFan Send a message via MSN to RangersFan
Bad calls happen to every team. As said above good teams make their own luck, and good teams find ways to win no matter what. Conspiracy non-sense is the lowest of the low for annoying fans.

RangersFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 08:06 AM
  #14
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
There is no good reason for an incorrect call to be made by those up in Toronto. They can take all the time they need--judge it from multiple angles. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any kind of uniform standard. Unfortunately the word 'integrity' in any sentence referencing any NHL decision making process shouldn't be used without the couplet 'lack of'.

That goal should not have counted. LOL at the guy above who thinks that was the 'correct call'. Explain to me how that should count and the one that Steve Mason shot into Miller's skates should not. Janssen very obviously kicked it in. He did not get his stick on it. I think he tried but he didn't. New Jersey built momentum off of it.

Here's the kicker to the kick--Rangers early on in the year would get a lead and hold on to it and win the game--so I'm not going to say we deserved to win when the team found a way to lose. Obviously the Rangers did not deserve to win last night. Since the Boston game they've been exploring how to lose games that they had been winning--which points to lack of confidence--points to heartlessness. Teams are figuring out the Rangers--that they can grind them down--beat them up. There's not much push back. This team even if it squeaks into the playoffs is going nowhere. Might as well get your rocks off watching some of them competing in the Olympics--it's not going to happen watching them at their real jobs.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 10:47 AM
  #15
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
Wait what? I watched the game on GCL and watched the replay multiple times and Jansen clearly booted the puck into the net with his skate on purpose...
The goal was called good by the official on the ice. In order for Toronto to reverse the call they need clear indisputable evidence that there was a distinct kicking motion. I never saw that in any replay. Jansen was basically being propelled forward by momentum when the puck hit his skate, and it was only after the point of contact with the puck that he actually moved his foot forward in a noticeable way. It's a crap goal, but it's legit.

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #16
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,942
vCash: 500
There are two problems here. One with the rule, and one with the replay.

Rule: It's way too subjective and unclear what is and isn't a goal and needs to be clarified. Personally, I think it should count as a goal as long as during the moment of contact with the puck the entire skate is in contact with the ice. If any part of the skate is off the ice - no goal.

Replay: And I have this issue with all sports. Once it goes to replay the original call should be 100% irrelevant (excluding the situation where you can't see ANYTHING on replay which would mean on the replay you can not see the puck at all. Or in football the balls at the bottom of the pile and someone comes out with it. Obviously you can't see through people). The call made by replay should just be as if this is the first time the play is seen and make the call that looks to be correct. Not searching for something that disputes the call that was made in real time as there is no evidence that call was right or not.

SA16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 10:56 AM
  #17
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,867
vCash: 500
The problem with the rule is that it is way too subjective.

They either need to allow or disallow all goals off of skates, or things like this will continue to happen.

Janssen obviously directed the puck into the net with his skate. You could see how he buried his head at the point of impact which indicates intent to direct the puck into the net using his skate. It doesn't necessarily mean he "kicked" it in though. Too much grey area.

The fact that he was skating around at center ice like a dumb meat head waiting for the call and then smirking on the bench afterward like a child who stole a cookie from the cookie jar made it even worse. What a dope.

Whatever you think, its a ****** goal that changed the momentum of the game, but the Rangers are to blame for putting themselves in that position, losing yet another lead to a team that they should have put away last night.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 11:00 AM
  #18
we want cup
We do not Sow
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 10,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
There are two problems here. One with the rule, and one with the replay.

Rule: It's way too subjective and unclear what is and isn't a goal and needs to be clarified. Personally, I think it should count as a goal as long as during the moment of contact with the puck the entire skate is in contact with the ice. If any part of the skate is off the ice - no goal.
You are absolutely correct that the "distinct kicking motion" standard is much too abstract, which is what causes the inconsistent calls. Whether your proposed solution is the answer, I'm not so sure of, but either way, a more clear cut standard is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Replay: And I have this issue with all sports. Once it goes to replay the original call should be 100% irrelevant (excluding the situation where you can't see ANYTHING on replay which would mean on the replay you can not see the puck at all. Or in football the balls at the bottom of the pile and someone comes out with it. Obviously you can't see through people). The call made by replay should just be as if this is the first time the play is seen and make the call that looks to be correct. Not searching for something that disputes the call that was made in real time as there is no evidence that call was right or not.
This I disagree on. The purpose for that rule is that in cases where the video review might still be 50/50, it's better to err on the side of the on-ice official, who is THERE and watching with his own two eyes, rather than a few pre-set camera angles.

__________________

RANGERS =
we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 11:04 AM
  #19
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
This I disagree on. The purpose for that rule is that in cases where the video review might still be 50/50, it's better to err on the side of the on-ice official, who is THERE and watching with his own two eyes, rather than a few pre-set camera angles.
The way I see it the game on the ice moves really fast and in many cases the on-ice official does not have the best view of the puck because of all the traffic in front of him (see all the quick whistles on loose pucks and such). A camera does not have these problems. Perhaps a better thing to check would be to see what percentage of calls that are reviewed get overturned. If it's 50% or higher than the officials call is more or less random in these spots (not "random" per say but that it's extremely hard for him to make sure) and then there is no point using that call as the default

SA16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 11:07 AM
  #20
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
The way I see it the game on the ice moves really fast and in many cases the on-ice official does not have the best view of the puck because of all the traffic in front of him (see all the quick whistles on loose pucks and such). A camera does not have these problems. Perhaps a better thing to check would be to see what percentage of calls that are reviewed get overturned. If it's 50% or higher than the officials call is more or less random in these spots (not "random" per say but that it's extremely hard for him to make sure) and then there is no point using that call as the default
But if you eliminate the original call from the replay picture, how do you deal with reviews where you can't see the entire puck cross the line? Do you really want Toronto deciding that?

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 11:20 AM
  #21
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,942
vCash: 500
Well that's why I said excluding situations where you can't see the puck at all and mentioned the football analogy of a fumble and the ball being fought for at the bottom of a pile. Perhaps there needs to be a different standard based on what is being reviewed. If we are reviewing whether or not the puck crossed the line that's usually something hard to see so we can base it based on the refs call. But based on something that you have a clear view of on camera like a puck off a skate or a possible high stick you really don't need the original call at all.

SA16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:08 PM
  #22
Riche16
Pessimistic-Realist
 
Riche16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
The goal was called good by the official on the ice. In order for Toronto to reverse the call they need clear indisputable evidence that there was a distinct kicking motion. I never saw that in any replay. Jansen was basically being propelled forward by momentum when the puck hit his skate, and it was only after the point of contact with the puck that he actually moved his foot forward in a noticeable way. It's a crap goal, but it's legit.
This is true... but it's the same goal and motion as JT Miller and that call was reversed. Need consistency, badly.

The thing that irks me is lack of calls that directly lead to goals. It happened twice last night. Both times we should have been on the PP and instead gave up goals directly after the non-call.

But it happens to every team and there's no sense griping about it. The officials and the league rule makers are terrible and that's the extent of the issue.

Riche16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:31 PM
  #23
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
This is true... but it's the same goal and motion as JT Miller and that call was reversed. Need consistency, badly.

The thing that irks me is lack of calls that directly lead to goals. It happened twice last night. Both times we should have been on the PP and instead gave up goals directly after the non-call.

But it happens to every team and there's no sense griping about it. The officials and the league rule makers are terrible and that's the extent of the issue.
Totally agree.

You nailed it.

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #24
profchaos2001
Registered User
 
profchaos2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 555
vCash: 500
In soccer, it's perfectly legal to slide feet first in an attempt to KICK the puck in. Is that not exactly what janssen did last night? He deliberately maneuvered his left skate to be in a position to knock the puck into the net. This is the definition of kicking.

profchaos2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2013, 01:57 PM
  #25
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by profchaos2001 View Post
In soccer, it's perfectly legal to slide feet first in an attempt to KICK the puck in. Is that not exactly what janssen did last night? He deliberately maneuvered his left skate to be in a position to knock the puck into the net. This is the definition of kicking.
It's perfectly legal in hockey to position/angle your skate in an attempt to deflect the puck into the net. Turning and/or angling is fine...kicking at the puck is not.

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.