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Old
12-08-2013, 09:46 AM
  #126
Nightshift
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The play that really got me boiling last night was Jannsens slash to Falks back because he was at the end of a shift. That pure BS. Should have been a match penalty and someone, anyone, should have flattened Jannsens right on the spot. Falk gets his head pile drived in the boards while headlocked by Elias then slashed and it generates zero emotion. Aside from a small handful of players, this team needs a major overhaul. Stanley cup is a distant dream at this point

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Old
12-08-2013, 10:51 AM
  #127
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The idea of sticking up for teammates left on a plane for Montreal with Prust!

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12-08-2013, 01:16 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
This is the real problem right here.

Before they go out and get "tough players," they need to find players with mental fortitude and resiliency.

Our captain doesn't even exemplify that anymore. It starts from him and trickles down.
In my opinion, it starts from the coach and trickles down. But I don't expect that statement to be received too positively.

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12-08-2013, 02:43 PM
  #129
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Yup...the coach has to be the guy that pushes the buttons...we have mostly zippers...and not enough buttons on our club .

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Old
12-08-2013, 02:47 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
In my opinion, it starts from the coach and trickles down. But I don't expect that statement to be received too positively.
Agreed. Didn't someone say that AV preached not retaliating and keeping your cool?

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Old
12-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The Middleton trade was as bad as they ever made. It seemed incredibly stupid and it was.

Middleton may have flourished had he remained. Hard to prove in either direction.

Rangers had that kind of team in 94.
Thanks Chosen. That's exactly my point.

You don't need a team of goons. You do need a team that can take any team to the wood shed at a second's notice.

We had that in '94. Twenty years ago. And we had better go about making that more of the norm in New York or it will be another twenty years of what we have now.

Imposing your will on the opponent is what wins games in the NHL. Tough, mostly clean physical play, with some nastiness to back it up is what goes at least most of the way to making that all happen.

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12-08-2013, 03:19 PM
  #132
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i think vigneault could do something to change the culture, but i don't think the problem began with him. the team has been pretty soft for years. how many headshots have they ignored. how many times a
has henrik been plowed.
they've masked their softness a bit with a defensive posture and willingness to block pucks. but pucks dont fight back. and now, with less of a focus on that 'jam' stuff, it has become very clear that this is not a tough group.
this has to change, or we're just gonna see a lot more injuries and average play.
is it wrong to say it appears the rangers almost play a naive, friendly style?
and, i really dont want to see dirty headshots like orpik threw, by the way. i hate that just as much. but the team has got to start to protect itself. no one else is gonna do it.

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Old
12-08-2013, 03:39 PM
  #133
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The sad thing is the new generation fan doesn't care about getting pushed around or taking head shots on a daily basis they will just say kill them with a lethal PP..Its all a live video game for them and that's all they know....Put down the controllers and pick up a hockey stick and learn that the sport is played with real emotion not a joy stick

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12-08-2013, 04:27 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
The sad thing is the new generation fan doesn't care about getting pushed around or taking head shots on a daily basis they will just say kill them with a lethal PP..Its all a live video game for them and that's all they know....Put down the controllers and pick up a hockey stick and learn that the sport is played with real emotion not a joy stick
This gets more compelling every time I hear it.

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Old
12-08-2013, 04:30 PM
  #135
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After Staal's injury last night I was pretty certain that McIlrath would get called up. In the event that he doesn't get the call Rangers still need to toughen up. We brought up McGrattan here, and I think that would be a pretty good move for the Rangers. One other scenario I could see is this. Montreal is a pretty tough club right now. Prust, Murray, Moen and... Parros. Wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a Parros for Pouliot swap in the near future. Cap hits are about $300k off. Parros would help, and he can actually play as well. Better than McGrattan or a Scott anyway. He not my favorite enforcer, as he also has concussion problems but he's certainly better than anything the Rangers currently have if... IF McIlrath doesn't get called up.

If Big Mac does get the nod, then I think the next order of business is to still add a forward that can handle business. Maybe like a Ryan Reaves on the Blues. $600k salary. Was an 05 draft pick so he's certainly not too old, which seems to be the norm for Ranger tough guys.

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Old
12-08-2013, 04:43 PM
  #136
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troy brouwer

is the guy i would target. tough goes to the dirty areas and stands up for teamates. guy is a beast against nyr in the postseason as well

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12-08-2013, 04:47 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by jay from jersey View Post
is the guy i would target. tough goes to the dirty areas and stands up for teamates. guy is a beast against nyr in the postseason as well
i doubt Caps would trade him to Rangers.. i wouldnt mind him on this team...

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12-08-2013, 04:50 PM
  #138
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The guys you're naming are guys I don't think will be traded. It's a part of what those teams are. Beach is one step for the Rangers, but proven NHLers that can fight and bring value are hard to come by.

Parros, McGratten make sense, and are definite needs. Maybe a kid that is NHL ready like Gadzik that the Oilers picked up off waivers earlier.

If McIlrath was on the ice, I don't think that Staal headshot takes place.

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12-08-2013, 04:53 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
The guys you're naming are guys I don't think will be traded. It's a part of what those teams are. Beach is one step for the Rangers, but proven NHLers that can fight and bring value are hard to come by.

Parros, McGratten make sense, and are definite needs. Maybe a kid that is NHL ready like Gadzik that the Oilers picked up off waivers earlier.

If McIlrath was on the ice, I don't think that Staal headshot takes place.
It wasn't really a headshot. Not from what I remember.

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Old
12-08-2013, 04:55 PM
  #140
jay from jersey
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the loss of

dubi and prust really hurt them in the toughness dept. i understand you have to make that trade for nash 10 outta 10 times, however not resigning prust is one of sather's worst moves in his tenure here, and that's saying a lot because there have been some absurb moves. the guy is over payed by a million dollars. a million! maybe even 500k. who cares!!!! i mean he won the steven mcdonald award, and you guys know what an accomplishment that is for this organization. always fought, and when boyle had him on the wing he played like a tougher player with more moxy or swagger whichever you prefer.i just can't believe he wouldn't pony up a freaking 10 million dollar contract. but he will give pouliot a 1.5 deal. i would have really really liked to see a prust boyle dorsett line. they would have been a real pain in the a$$ to play against. oh well ya live and learn i suppose.

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Old
12-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
In my opinion, it starts from the coach and trickles down. But I don't expect that statement to be received too positively.
How do you explain the absence of retaliation last year then?

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12-08-2013, 05:25 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
The sad thing is the new generation fan doesn't care about getting pushed around or taking head shots on a daily basis they will just say kill them with a lethal PP..Its all a live video game for them and that's all they know....Put down the controllers and pick up a hockey stick and learn that the sport is played with real emotion not a joy stick
Wow such tough much punch.

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12-08-2013, 05:41 PM
  #143
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I just took a long looks at Vineault coached teams. In Vancouver he never utilized a super heavy. He had Bieksa there, who I think is more of a hydbrid. A tough kid that can play regular minutes. Then he had Hordichuk for a while. A true warrior, but a guy who was outsized by all of the guys he rolled with. He also had Rypien who was arguably pound for pound the best in the game for the time he played. But...also on the small side. Other than that he primarily went with a tough defenseman and a couple of gritty forwards, like Burrows.

I think that a pretty good indicator of what the team is going to do. Doesn't appear that he cares for the heavyweight at all but prefers tough guys tht can play or smaller sized fighters. Had Asham here, but he's old as dirt. Had Haley here but never gave him a chance. Now going with Dorsett. A gamer. Fits the mold of teams he coached in the past minus having at least one bruiser on the blue line.

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Old
12-08-2013, 06:15 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
The sad thing is the new generation fan doesn't care about getting pushed around or taking head shots on a daily basis they will just say kill them with a lethal PP..Its all a live video game for them and that's all they know....Put down the controllers and pick up a hockey stick and learn that the sport is played with real emotion not a joy stick
And this whole time I thought...

Btw, not that it would change much, but I've been pleading to see Haley in the lineup regularly since we got him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Wow such tough much punch.
so grit. amaze. what jam. wow.


Last edited by Aufheben: 12-08-2013 at 06:54 PM. Reason: fixing my grammar error lawl
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Old
12-08-2013, 06:52 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
How do you explain the absence of retaliation last year then?

They lost the players and had pansies

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Old
12-08-2013, 07:09 PM
  #146
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So far tonight, the Rangers are failing in both physical and mental toughness. Not what you want to see after last night's loss. Too many periods and games where they have played like this.

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Old
12-08-2013, 07:17 PM
  #147
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Even Joe and Sam are speaking up about it...

Sam earlier said something like I think maybe they need a little of this after the Callahan scrum.

Joe is making excuses, "We'll both team played last night" insinuating that this was a boring game.

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12-08-2013, 07:25 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Even Joe and Sam are speaking up about it...

Sam earlier said something like I think maybe they need a little of this after the Callahan scrum.

Joe is making excuses, "We'll both team played last night" insinuating that this was a boring game.
i wont be shocked if Beach gets called up... Rangers need some emotion maybe they see him as the next Avery type player.. at least when they lose it will be always entertaining

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12-08-2013, 07:57 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i wont be shocked if Beach gets called up... Rangers need some emotion maybe they see him as the next Avery type player.. at least when they lose it will be always entertaining
Could be...He's emotional, just not a very good scrapper though. Would bring more excitement though for sure.

Anson Carter jut spoke up too about the lack.

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12-08-2013, 09:41 PM
  #150
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The problem is, even if we were to trade for Parros, basically 100% of the Ranger's physicality would be coming from one dark corner of the lineup that would likely get the least ice time of any player on the team.

The beauty of that 2011-12 team wasn't just having Prust and Dubinsky, it was being able to roll 3 out of 4 lines with truculent *******s on them, as well as having Bickel on the 3rd d-pair, who for all his faults as a defender was probably one of the 3 most intimidating fighters the Rangers have had in the last 5 years, at least.

On that team, 75% of the lines and 33% of the D pairs had at least one person who would engage physically with the opposing team. Dubinsky -2nd line Prust -3rd line Rupp/Bickel-4th line

Even if we were to add a legit HW, in the span of an entire hockey game, literally the only time throughout the entire game we could be expected to bring an average or above average physical/aggressive style of play would be the 7-9 minutes out of 60 that the 4th line is on the ice. Think about that, out of an entire hockey game, the only chance this team has of physically overpowering their opponent occurs roughly 10-15% of the game. It's a changing game but this is still hockey we're talking about.

To be perfectly honest, as Staal's injuries keep piling up, a swap of Staal for Skinner is starting to look better and better. No matter what, there's got to be a 50% chance at least that Staal bolts to play with his brothers when his contract is up. Skinner is an elite scorer the Rangers are lacking, not to mention he plays with some bite to his game. Skinner's had concussions, but now it's looking like Staal has had some + the eye thing too. At the start of the season, I had real high hopes for Staal, and wouldn't have wanted the trade... now at this point in the season, I'm not sure Carolina says yes to the trade.

Bring in Skinner to help the offense, then find some way to replace Staal with a mean SOB #4. The Kings happen to have 3 of them in W. Mitchell, M. Greene, Regehr, though I don't think they trade any of them. But a player like that, to fill in the 4 spot. Honestly the perfect dman would be someone like Bieksa or James Wisniewski or even an Orpik.

Are the Rangers not better off after:
Staal for Skinner
DZ, Boyle for Bieksa +
4th or 5th for Krys Barch/Ben Eager type 4th line winger? Or even Parros... but I'd rather someone who can PK, esp. if giving up Boyle

Then in a perfect world you dangle Brassard for a Prust-type, banging third line winger with some goal scoring potential.

And thus, while keeping pretty much the entire core of the team, you still manage to significantly improve the overall toughness. Not to mention that as much as I love honestly do love Boyle, we could finally stop living in fear of the next time he ends up dropping the gloves...

It might hurt a bit, but at this point I'm doing it.

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