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KHL Expansion part III

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Old
12-08-2013, 03:45 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post
Can't questions and discussions about the KHL's future, strenght, Gazprom, defencemen and general economy be held in another thread instead of a thread mainly about expansion teams?

I come here to read about rumors and news about new teams that will join or old teams that will leave the KHL, not to read about the future salary caps, how strong the KHL is in comparison to the NHL, how sad the Finnish and Swedish "fans" are etc.

Not trying to offend anyone, but the last 5 pages or so has been totally off-topic in my opinion. No discussion what so ever about the Norwegian team that is now in Russia to talk about a future potential expansion.

So please, make a new thread.

Any news about this Norwegian team?
It was said in this thread but I can write it again.

Norway press wrote that 2nd meeting among Valerenga and investors will take place next week. Investors, according to myself, should be Arena Events. Medvedev confirmed negotiations with Norwegians, he said "it is serious with them"

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12-08-2013, 04:08 AM
  #602
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Ah thanks! This looks promising then, very promising!

I will check back in here during next week in hopes of something juicy.

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12-08-2013, 04:11 AM
  #603
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yes, if Arena Events is behind this, then it is serious.

Jokerit, Valerenga, Lada, Sochi - candidates for expansion. Who knows if KHL accept all next summer... I doubt, but who knows? Maybe some russian clubs relegates to VHL next summer... ???

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12-08-2013, 04:26 AM
  #604
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I'd say 99% for Jokerit, 90% for Sochi and 50% for Lada.

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Old
12-08-2013, 08:19 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
Please do elaborate.
Common sense. It's become a far too expensive sport to attract the masses, arena conditions, it is also not attractive to sponsors in Europe compared to others and there's no big tv money to be made. Even in Finland there's been a little drop in interest ever since the league disappeared into pay-tv. There's not enough interest to make money off of pay-tv and lack of add revenue to be made from free tv. The warmer countries are simply not interested enough in it.

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Old
12-08-2013, 08:51 AM
  #606
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Was looking up Vålerenga's attendance numbers last year for 2012-2013. Came up with this:

They averaged 2,004 with a capacity of 4,450 so 45.0%.

If the KHL is expanding there, they gotta have good marketing. Gotta put people in the seats, somehow.

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12-08-2013, 08:55 AM
  #607
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Jussi, pls give us REAL data, your opinion is not enough.

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Old
12-08-2013, 09:11 AM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Was looking up Vålerenga's attendance numbers last year for 2012-2013. Came up with this:

They averaged 2,004 with a capacity of 4,450 so 45.0%.

If the KHL is expanding there, they gotta have good marketing. Gotta put people in the seats, somehow.
My guess it's all about their current arena - Jordal Amfi. It's like Sokolniki, both arenas were built in 1950's and roofed in 1970's, but the Amfi is even smaller and the arena itself has a strange oval shape, so many seats are located behind the goals. Oslo Spektrum is more modern arena with a larger capacity, Vålerenga doesn't play there now just because of higher costs, if Arena Events purchase it, the team will be free to move to it.

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Old
12-08-2013, 09:21 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Sucrologist View Post
My guess it's all about their current arena - Jordal Amfi. It's like Sokolniki, both arenas were built in 1950's and roofed in 1970's, but the Amfi is even smaller and the arena itself has a strange oval shape, so many seats are located behind the goals. Oslo Spektrum is more modern arena with a larger capacity, Vålerenga doesn't play there now just because of higher costs, if Arena Events purchase it, the team will be free to move to it.
They would sign a long term lease to play there, but it won't be free. Jokerit aren't playing for free at Hartwall Areena.

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12-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
They will sign a long term lease to play there, but it won't be free. Jokerit aren't playing for free at Hartwall Areena.
The team will be free to move to Spektrum, not to move to there for free
Jokerit must be having some discount for playing at Hartwall. A long term lease might have been impossible with previous owners; problems with scheduling other events and so. Still, we don't know where Vålerenga is going to play later if Oslo loses with its bid, 6.5k can't be forever.

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12-08-2013, 11:11 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Sucrologist View Post
The team will be free to move to Spektrum, not to move to there for free
Jokerit must be having some discount for playing at Hartwall. A long term lease might have been impossible with previous owners; problems with scheduling other events and so. Still, we don't know where Vålerenga is going to play later if Oslo loses with its bid, 6.5k can't be forever.
Whoops, sorry, read a little "too far". About Jokerit, they have been on a lease throughout the existence of the Hartwall Areena, though it has essentially been a case of moving money from one pocket to the other.

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12-08-2013, 11:51 AM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucrologist View Post
My guess it's all about their current arena - Jordal Amfi. It's like Sokolniki, both arenas were built in 1950's and roofed in 1970's, but the Amfi is even smaller and the arena itself has a strange oval shape, so many seats are located behind the goals. Oslo Spektrum is more modern arena with a larger capacity, Vålerenga doesn't play there now just because of higher costs, if Arena Events purchase it, the team will be free to move to it.

You are right about Jordal Amfi, it was built for the Olympics back in 1952 and the roof on the building was finished built in the early 70’s.

The whole place stinks! It’s so old and run-down and the lack of maintenance is very visible. The current Våleranga coach Espen Knutsen stated in an newspaper article a time ago that he had seen a rat run over the center-ice. The stench of sewage from the locker-room is also very nasty.

I remember earlier this year(or maybe it was last year, I don’t remember) Norway hosted Sweden In two friendly's on Jordal Amfi, and just imagine inviting Swedish players from their home ice Globe-Arena to this place:



It’s so ****ing embarrassing (And yes, this was until recently the home for our National team)

Vålerenga knows for sure that there is no future in that building. There is no way KHL hockey is being played in that building LoL

Be interesting to see what comes out of the meeting with the KHL.


Last edited by Old Norse Hockey: 12-08-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old
12-08-2013, 12:11 PM
  #613
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What are the chances of Oslo's OG bid? Do they really need it to start building a new muli purpose arena? What are the reasons they haven't got one yet?

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12-08-2013, 12:16 PM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Norse Hockey View Post
You are right about Jordal Amfi, it was built for the Olympics back in 1952 and the roof on the building was finished built in the early 70’s.

The whole place stinks! It’s so old and run-down and the lack of maintenance is very visible. The current Våleranga coach Espen Knutsen stated in an newspaper article a time ago that he had seen a rat run over the center-ice. The stench of sewage from the locker-room is also very nasty.

I remember earlier this year(or maybe it was last year, I don’t remember) Norway hosted Sweden In two friendly's on Jordal Amfi, and just imagine inviting Swedish players from their home ice Globe-Arena to this place:



It’s so ****ing embarrassing (And yes, this was until recently the home for our National team)

Vålerenga knows for sure that there is no future in that building. There is no way KHL hockey is being played in that building LoL

Be interesting to see what comes out of the meeting with the KHL.
Maybe the Oslo Olympic bid won't be a successful one than? They plan to use Jordal Amfi as the backup arena for hockey.

If the Oslo Olympic bid isn't successful, I don't think Stubberud will be built. All of this could really hurt Oslo and Norways chance of joining/remaining in the KHL.

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12-08-2013, 12:21 PM
  #615
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Just a follow up post for my last post:

Here's the link that lists the venues, (people say I throw facts out there with any proof):

http://www.ol22.no/en/venues-and-facilities/

Also can anyone find out / know why the Oslo Spektrum wasn't selected as the 2nd hockey venue for the Olympics?

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12-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Just a follow up post for my last post:

Here's the link that lists the venues, (people say I throw facts out there with any proof):

http://www.ol22.no/en/venues-and-facilities/

Also can anyone find out / know why the Oslo Spektrum wasn't selected as the 2nd hockey venue for the Olympics?
Actually I just looked into this further myself and found that they are indeed planning on building a 10,000 arena called Stubberud but after the olympics it will be changed into a multi-use sports facility, not an ice hockey arena. The new ice hockey arena will be right next to the Jordal and only seat 6,000. Now the question is do you guys see the KHL being okay with a 6,000 arena in the KHL for the long term? Maybe if Vålerenga does join the KHL, they plan on adding more seats before construction? If so the KHL has to come to an agreement before 2015 with Vålerenga.

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12-08-2013, 12:40 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
What are the chances of Oslo's OG bid? Do they really need it to start building a new muli purpose arena? What are the reasons they haven't got one yet?
Because one does not simply build anything big quickly/smoothly in the Nordic countries.

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Old
12-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Maybe the Oslo Olympic bid won't be a successful one than? They plan to use Jordal Amfi as the backup arena for hockey.

If the Oslo Olympic bid isn't successful, I don't think Stubberud will be built. All of this could really hurt Oslo and Norways chance of joining/remaining in the KHL.
When it comes to the Oslo Olympic bid the old Jordal Amfi is not even a part of that. A brand new arena will be built along with several other training arenas.

Like it’s stated in the newspaper article, Oslo spectrum is one place they can use, Telenor Arena is also an option. We don’t know for sure what comes out of the Vålerenga/KHL talks yet, but if they put Olympics in Oslo as a part of it, well….. then they take a big risk, there is no guarantee that Oslo will win the bid.

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12-08-2013, 08:27 PM
  #619
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Salary floor 40mil/year in a few years? Yeah, dream on...

I'd say it's a 5% chance that a Swedish team joins KHL within the next 10 years, and there's only 3 candidates: Djurgården, aik and Malmö. The KHL is widely disliked by Swedish hockey fans, not just because they steal some of the top SHL players, most importantly the league has got a reputation of being a clown league, with foreign players for no obvious reason being fired after just a few games, also the great economical gap between teams. Most importantly people fear the time zones deferential.

People say that if the KHL wants a Swedish team in the league, they'll have one. You could not be more wrong. The KHL currently has nothing to offer a Swedish club. Absolutely nothing except a lot of trouble and an uncertain future. Who can guarantee that the KHL even will exist in 5 years? It's the most unstable sports project that I know of. Like I said, right now the KHL offers nothing. But, things can change. If one of the three teams I mentioned has their financial situation going from bad to worse, the KHL emerges as a potential solution.

In Sweden, clubs are just like another company. There are no shortcuts money wise, every club has to be beneficial. There are no big financers, it's every club on their own (with a few exceptions where the county invests in the club). I have a hard time seeing a Swedish club ever being successful in the world's most uneven hockey league.

This is what many people think about the KHL here.

-Offers no economical boost.
-Less rivalry, less people watch games.
-Traveling to away games becomes impossible.
-No chance of winning the league
-Away games will be harder to watch on tv (time zones)
-Possibility that the KHL will dissolve. {Mod}
-A league with Russian decision makers sounds scary.
-The whole league stinks plastic (cheerleaders, new teams popping up, no relegation etc)
-Huge prestige loss in the Swedish hockey community when joining the KHL.

These are some if the things I could figure out ..


Last edited by Killion: 12-09-2013 at 01:53 AM. Reason: ... amusing analogy, but fraid not. cant be using it here.
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Old
12-09-2013, 04:32 AM
  #620
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EDIT: Separate thread created http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1556651


Last edited by Sucro: 12-09-2013 at 04:53 AM.
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Old
12-09-2013, 04:39 AM
  #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post

-Offers no economical boost.
-Less rivalry, less people watch games.
-Traveling to away games becomes impossible.
Won't argue

Quote:
-No chance of winning the league
Lol? Foreign teams are treated much better than Russian ones. I am sure that Medvedev can't wait for foreigner teams to win the Gagarin Cup to gain even more exposition in the West

Quote:
-Away games will be harder to watch on tv (time zones)
You'd still get most of games from Western Conference at a handy schedule

Quote:
-Possibility that the KHL will dissolve. {Mod}
Lol wut? Why should it dissolve? Then why the SHL might not dissolve too?

Quote:
-A league with Russian decision makers sounds scary.
Propaganda

Quote:
-The whole league stinks plastic (cheerleaders, new teams popping up, no relegation etc)
The NHL sucks too then

Quote:
-Huge prestige loss in the Swedish hockey community when joining the KHL.
After two games all will be forgotten just like it was with Lev, Slovan, etc.

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12-09-2013, 06:18 AM
  #622
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the world's most uneven hockey league...
What's up with this crap? The world's most uneven hockey league?
What does one needs to be a competitive league? 90% clubs fighting for the championship? All teams are at the same finanacial level? Every team with one Crosby in lineup?

1. Skelleftea - 66
2. Frolunda - 55
3. Leksands - 49
4. Växjö - 46
5. Lulea - 45
6 Brynäs - 45
7 . Modo - 43
8. Farjestads - 41
9. Linkopings - 40
10. HV 71 - 37
11. Orebro - 34
12. AIK - 33

Is this the model of a competitive league?

We talking about budget, yea, Dinamo Riga, Medvescak, Avtomobilist and Admiral are all dead last fighting to get a point.

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12-09-2013, 08:21 AM
  #623
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Lol? Foreign teams are treated much better than Russian ones. I am sure that Medvedev can't wait for foreigner teams to win the Gagarin Cup to gain even more exposition in the West


Propaganda
Foreign clubs can't win due to being in a huge financial disadvantage. They can't attract the players the richest Russian clubs do. Even Jokerit (as per Kurri's comments last week)have already admitted they won't be able to attract the best Finns and their feeder/stepping stone status to NHL and the bigger KHL clubs.

Fact. Russian impatience is notorious. Let's not even start with favoritism of SKA and the infamous corruption.

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12-09-2013, 08:26 AM
  #624
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In my opinion Barys, Lev and Riga have all good chance to win Gagarin cup this year.

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12-09-2013, 08:36 AM
  #625
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In my opinion Barys, Lev and Riga have all good chance to win Gagarin cup this year.
To help the expansion into North America (not a hockey club, but just more popularity) I think it would be great for anyone but SKA to win the Gagarin Cup. Everyone around here thinks since they have Kovalchuk on a 4 year deal, they'll win 4 Gagarin Cups. If anyone beside SKA wins, will show the North Americans that the league is more talented then they think.

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