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Team Toughness II

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Old
12-08-2013, 09:43 PM
  #151
Raspewtin
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
They lost the players and had pansies
But that was a Torts coached team! They always stood up for each other .

That's not what we're arguing about, it's whether or not Torts made his team tough.

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12-08-2013, 10:04 PM
  #152
Blue Regime
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Interesting that 2012 was an outlier season for the Rangers in the last 20 years in two different ways:

1) made it to the ECF
2) led the league in fights

Now fighting doesn't necessarily = team toughness, for example look at TB, who always rack up a ton of fights but it's because BJ Crombeen will fight 20 times and generally get manhandled.

But still, it can't be just a coincidence. You remember some of those multi-fight Flyers games where the team really had each others backs and played with a ton of heart? When I watch this team, it's like watching a game of pond hockey, the majority of the team is playing in slow motion and trying not to get injured.

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12-09-2013, 07:24 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Blue Regime View Post
Interesting that 2012 was an outlier season for the Rangers in the last 20 years in two different ways:

1) made it to the ECF
2) led the league in fights

Now fighting doesn't necessarily = team toughness, for example look at TB, who always rack up a ton of fights but it's because BJ Crombeen will fight 20 times and generally get manhandled.

But still, it can't be just a coincidence. You remember some of those multi-fight Flyers games where the team really had each others backs and played with a ton of heart? When I watch this team, it's like watching a game of pond hockey, the majority of the team is playing in slow motion and trying not to get injured.
Basically I think a lot of teams have figured out the more you challenge the Rangers physically all game long your chances of winning become exponentially greater. To go back to Tom Sestito's remarks--and he's a crap fighter--the Rangers really have no one that can answer the bell. With Staal's injury the Rangers talk about giving McIlrath a look see somewhere around christmas time becomes more realistic.

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12-09-2013, 07:45 AM
  #154
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We simply got beaten up last night, this team is soooooooooo SOFT.

Kreider was challenged several times after slashing their goalie, but he always ran away. He was even benched for the second half of the 3rd, AV was afraid he'd get totally crushed.

Kreider...if you want to agitate, you also have to answer the bell! What a fool.

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Old
12-09-2013, 08:18 AM
  #155
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
We simply got beaten up last night, this team is soooooooooo SOFT.

Kreider was challenged several times after slashing their goalie, but he always ran away. He was even benched for the second half of the 3rd, AV was afraid he'd get totally crushed.

Kreider...if you want to agitate, you also have to answer the bell! What a fool.
I love fighting and the physical stuff but if you want Kreider fighting then you have no idea what your talking about.

He is the last guy you want getting hurt in a fight...if the Rangers had any clue how to build a team...he should go around crushing guys and then have a Prust, Bickel and the like fighting for him...

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12-09-2013, 08:19 AM
  #156
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Thread title should be changed to LACK OF ANY SEMBLANCE OF...

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12-09-2013, 08:46 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I love fighting and the physical stuff but if you want Kreider fighting then you have no idea what your talking about.

He is the last guy you want getting hurt in a fight...if the Rangers had any clue how to build a team...he should go around crushing guys and then have a Prust, Bickel and the like fighting for him...
Exactly. This is part of the issue.

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12-09-2013, 08:57 AM
  #158
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If you can't handle what might come when you throw hits, mess with goaltenders and so on, then you shouldn't do it in the first place.

It was a pitiful show when AV had to hide Kreider on the bench. He should be able to take care of himself. If he can't, then stop pissing off opponent players.

That is actually one of the unwritten rules...

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12-09-2013, 09:03 AM
  #159
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Even Boomer was disgusted this morning, calling them a soft team. He is usually Rangers homer #1.

It's painful. The team has a lot of issues but a little spark and spine would go a long way.

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12-09-2013, 09:06 AM
  #160
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Hey guys, did you know that fights=wins?

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12-09-2013, 09:07 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
If you can't handle what might come when you throw hits, mess with goaltenders and so on, then you shouldn't do it in the first place.

It was a pitiful show when AV had to hide Kreider on the bench. He should be able to take care of himself. If he can't, then stop pissing off opponent players.

That is actually one of the unwritten rules...
What? That's not true at all. If you play a clean game and hit hard, you don't have the drop the gloves all the time. Kreider is one of the Rangers best offensive players. I'd rather him NOT drop the gloves.

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12-09-2013, 09:15 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
If you can't handle what might come when you throw hits, mess with goaltenders and so on, then you shouldn't do it in the first place.

It was a pitiful show when AV had to hide Kreider on the bench. He should be able to take care of himself. If he can't, then stop pissing off opponent players.

That is actually one of the unwritten rules...
Agreed...

I started thinking about this a week or 2 ago... Kreider does NOT seem like a guy that wants anything to do with fighting, but he has been checking the hell out of the opposition. Something has to give. Last night was pathetic in so many ways, but AV hiding Kreider?

We are a total disaster right now. One of our only physical players wants NOTHING to do with fighting.

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12-09-2013, 09:16 AM
  #163
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After the Caps first goal, which was yet another failure to clear the crease by this team, you could just tell whatever confidence they had was lost. It's not surprising they surrendered a goal so soon after that.

This team wilts at the slightest sign of adversity. If we don't score first, forget about winning the game - we are dead last in the league in wins when we are trailing first. This team is mentally fragile and the "leaders" are failing at setting an example and motivating the rest of the team.

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12-09-2013, 09:17 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Agreed...

I started thinking about this a week or 2 ago... Kreider does NOT seem like a guy that wants anything to do with fighting, but he has been checking the hell out of the opposition. Something has to give. Last night was pathetic in so many ways, but AV hiding Kreider?

We are a total disaster right now. One of our only physical players wants NOTHING to do with fighting.
Why does he have to fight? I don't understand this. If you are looking for your top line LWer to fight then the rest of the team isn't built correctly. it's like asking Pacioretty to fight. Why? Because he is big and hits people?

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12-09-2013, 09:22 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What? That's not true at all. If you play a clean game and hit hard, you don't have the drop the gloves all the time. Kreider is one of the Rangers best offensive players. I'd rather him NOT drop the gloves.
It's just an agenda. He shut up for a while but knew he'd be back spewing some crap about Kreider after last night. Zucc is da best, brah.

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12-09-2013, 09:24 AM
  #166
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Kreider played a year of prep school and 3 years of college. Fighting has not been part of his hockey education. Size isn't everything. There's technique involved in fighting and there's no good reason for posters here to start thinking that this guy should be fighting very often or very much--particularly when he's becoming one of our more important players. Would you want Kreider standing up to a guy like Tom Wilson for his first ever fight against anyone? A guy who has fought numerous tough guys?

Take a look at Boyle (another BC guy)--tries to defend himself--he doesn't know what he's doing. He gets clobbered every time he tries.

Take a look at Falk who has had some fights--played CHL (which helps) etc.--has the size and some mean but lacks technique and so he gets schooled by Anthony Peluso.

Not everyone can do this well. We can go on all day about how guys like Orr or McGrattan suck as players but hockey fighting at the pro level is an art which is why a guy like Prust can hang in in fights against much bigger and very worthy opponents--but not all of them. There is skill involved in it and the player has to have the willingness. Over the years there have been numerous guys who owe their careers to this skill. They might not have had much of other skills but to do what they do takes heart--something the team we've been watching lately shows very little of.

Kreider is not the guy for this in any case. The Rangers need to go out and find one or two.

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12-09-2013, 09:27 AM
  #167
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Never understood a lot of hockey fans who say that if a guy is big, and plays any type of physical game that they have to fight.

People constantly reference Boyle's size and how he should be fighting when there is absolutely no reason that should be happening.

ANd you NEVER want guys like Kreider or Nash fighting.


People sometimes confuse toughness with fighting though and we need some guys on the lower lines who actually hit a little... We have NO hitting. Hitting is the best form of toughness you can have.

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12-09-2013, 09:29 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Why does he have to fight? I don't understand this. If you are looking for your top line LWer to fight then the rest of the team isn't built correctly. it's like asking Pacioretty to fight. Why? Because he is big and hits people?
But don't you know fighting means winning!!!!!

Team has horrible flaws that allow for no competency throughout the team. It starts and ends with the fact that no one has sack and they obvious don't give a flying **** about competing.

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12-09-2013, 09:30 AM
  #169
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Guys don't you know the best way to retaliate is with a lethal PP? Come on get up to speed its 2013 brand of hockey.Where's the freaking sarcasm button?

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12-09-2013, 09:33 AM
  #170
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Some might not like it but if Haley or Bickel were healthy I'd have no problem bringing either of them up right now. Neither are the answer though on their own. Haley is not that big and Bickel is decent as a heavy but not great.

McIlrath might be ready as well. Those are pretty much the in house solutions.

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12-09-2013, 09:34 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Some might not like it but if Haley or Bickel were healthy I'd have no problem bringing either of them up right now. Neither are the answer though on their own. Haley is not that big and Bickel is decent as a heavy but not great.

McIlrath might be ready as well. Those are pretty much the in house solutions.
No. That's probably one of the worst things that can be done right now.

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12-09-2013, 09:53 AM
  #172
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I get the point that top line players shouldn't fight. And if Kreider fights he'll probably get destroyed anyway, because he has zero experience.

But then he should stick to clean hits, and not go any further like he did last night, attack a goalie and you have to answer for it.

Call up McIlrath to do the dirty work...

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12-09-2013, 10:06 AM
  #173
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No. That's probably one of the worst things that can be done right now.
Are you serious? We desperately need a spark here! All we have is dead meat on skates...

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12-09-2013, 10:11 AM
  #174
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Are you serious? We desperately need a spark here! All we have is dead meat on skates...
I am serious. Let's bring up more meatheads that take up space being useless!! Clearly we need more sieves on the back end.

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12-09-2013, 10:15 AM
  #175
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Avery talk last night. Now Bickel?

God help us.

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