HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > The KHL
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

KHL Expansion part III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-09-2013, 08:38 AM
  #626
thevreelander
Registered User
 
thevreelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Norse Hockey View Post
When it comes to the Oslo Olympic bid the old Jordal Amfi is not even a part of that. A brand new arena will be built along with several other training arenas.

Like it’s stated in the newspaper article, Oslo spectrum is one place they can use, Telenor Arena is also an option. We don’t know for sure what comes out of the Vålerenga/KHL talks yet, but if they put Olympics in Oslo as a part of it, well….. then they take a big risk, there is no guarantee that Oslo will win the bid.
Not to big a risk, I mean there is still the Spektrum, and the billionaires may just have plans to build a new arena. Impossible to see what lies ahead if Oslo doesn't win Olympic bid.

thevreelander is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 08:42 AM
  #627
Jokeri
Registered User
 
Jokeri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 88
vCash: 500
KHL is same than every other hockey league, in playoffs anything can happen...
SKA is ofcourse biggest, richest and most obvious winner but Dynamo, Kazan, Barys, Magnitogorsk and Riga aint so far away... and who knows maybe team like Zagreb wins the whole thing

Jokeri is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 08:45 AM
  #628
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Not to big a risk, I mean there is still the Spektrum, and the billionaires may just have plans to build a new arena. Impossible to see what lies ahead if Oslo doesn't win Olympic bid.
Like I said, one does not simply build anything big quickly/smoothly in the Nordic countries.

Jussi is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 08:48 AM
  #629
Jokeri
Registered User
 
Jokeri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 88
vCash: 500
Jussi is right it takes ten years and hundred bureacrats to build anything in scandinavia

Jokeri is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 08:57 AM
  #630
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokeri View Post
KHL is same than every other hockey league, in playoffs anything can happen...
SKA is ofcourse biggest, richest and most obvious winner but Dynamo, Kazan, Barys, Magnitogorsk and Riga aint so far away... and who knows maybe team like Zagreb wins the whole thing
Judging by last two years obvious choise would be dynamo moscow,SKA will never win the Cup because their D sucks,and we proved that yesterday.

BalticWarrior is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 08:57 AM
  #631
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
With or without kovalchuk it doesnt matter SKA wont win the Cup.

BalticWarrior is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 09:00 AM
  #632
Jokeri
Registered User
 
Jokeri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 88
vCash: 500
Let the best team win...

Jokeri is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 09:16 AM
  #633
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,417
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Foreign clubs can't win due to being in a huge financial disadvantage. They can't attract the players the richest Russian clubs do. Even Jokerit (as per Kurri's comments last week)have already admitted they won't be able to attract the best Finns and their feeder/stepping stone status to NHL and the bigger KHL clubs.

Fact. Russian impatience is notorious. Let's not even start with favoritism of SKA and the infamous corruption.
Ok so why SKA didn't win Gagarin Cup every year

__________________
Алексей Черепанов навсегда в наших сердцах
Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 09:37 AM
  #634
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Ok so why SKA didn't win Gagarin Cup every year
Because they suck.

Jussi is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 11:24 AM
  #635
pulverapa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Lol? Foreign teams are treated much better than Russian ones. I am sure that Medvedev can't wait for foreigner teams to win the Gagarin Cup to gain even more exposition in the West
Believe that if you want to. I can't see some Russian billionaire investing in a Swedish team. Frankly, it's impossible since he could only own 49 percent of the club by law. A bunch of Latvian players will not win the Gagarin cup, ever. They're not even close to winning the Finnish or Swedish league. They're having a good year this season but it can't go on forever. I've been to a Riga game once, a few seasons back, I enjoyed it.


Quote:
You'd still get most of games from Western Conference at a handy schedule
Yes, but it's nowhere close to what it is now. I think Swedes appreciate this much more than you would think.


Quote:
Lol wut? Why should it dissolve? Then why the SHL might not dissolve too?
SHL has a healthy and is a well established system, while the KHL is just a big money eating project run by one huge sponsor. I'm not saying it's gonna happen but who knows, what if some day Gazprom no longer finds their little hockey project to be no fun no more? I don't trust Gazprom for one second.

Quote:
Propaganda
Perhaps, but the mentality over here is that the Russian system is corrupt and probably KHL is as well. This is something that is deeply disliked here. We simply do not trust Russian authorities.


Quote:
The NHL sucks too then
I didn't say that. My point is that people take pride in the sport. We don't need cheerleaders to make the game experience better. We're there for hockey. Swedish hockey culture, at least in Stockholm, is deeply influenced by English football. No drums, very few jerseys, no cheerleaders, beer etc. This is very important. It's actually the single most important thing that we want to keep. It is what we stand for. We want to keep our integrity and does not want to be a part of what we call, "the plastic". I did not even mention the "Cup of Hope" (losers playoffs). LOL, give me a break...

I myself have been to a couple of games in the KHL. I loved Riga as a neutral spectator. But I don't want all the crap around it in my club here in Stockholm. Nobody wants that.

Quote:
After two games all will be forgotten just like it was with Lev, Slovan, etc.
Simply, no.

If the day comes, it probably won't, when we have no other choice but to join the KHL, most people will support it. But as long as we're doing fine we're not even close to join.

pulverapa is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 12:08 PM
  #636
scud9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
For curiosity I counted Lev Prague's attendance this year and it was little less than 5000 per a game. (4987 to be exact) And they drew over 10000 against SKA and over 8000 against Riga. There were a couple games in which they got less than 3000 attendance.

So what does this mean? In my opinion culture in club sports in Europe is different from America. You can't copy a model from America and expect it to work in Europe. The club competition in Europe is based on rivalties within the country they operate. It is like one proud Stoke City fan once said: "my love for my town is mirrored in my devotion to my team". KHL is doomed out side of its comfort zone: Former States of Soviet Union.

scud9 is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 02:26 PM
  #637
thevreelander
Registered User
 
thevreelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post
Believe that if you want to. I can't see some Russian billionaire investing in a Swedish team. Frankly, it's impossible since he could only own 49 percent of the club by law. A bunch of Latvian players will not win the Gagarin cup, ever. They're not even close to winning the Finnish or Swedish league. They're having a good year this season but it can't go on forever. I've been to a Riga game once, a few seasons back, I enjoyed it.




Yes, but it's nowhere close to what it is now. I think Swedes appreciate this much more than you would think.




SHL has a healthy and is a well established system, while the KHL is just a big money eating project run by one huge sponsor. I'm not saying it's gonna happen but who knows, what if some day Gazprom no longer finds their little hockey project to be no fun no more? I don't trust Gazprom for one second.



Perhaps, but the mentality over here is that the Russian system is corrupt and probably KHL is as well. This is something that is deeply disliked here. We simply do not trust Russian authorities.




I didn't say that. My point is that people take pride in the sport. We don't need cheerleaders to make the game experience better. We're there for hockey. Swedish hockey culture, at least in Stockholm, is deeply influenced by English football. No drums, very few jerseys, no cheerleaders, beer etc. This is very important. It's actually the single most important thing that we want to keep. It is what we stand for. We want to keep our integrity and does not want to be a part of what we call, "the plastic". I did not even mention the "Cup of Hope" (losers playoffs). LOL, give me a break...

I myself have been to a couple of games in the KHL. I loved Riga as a neutral spectator. But I don't want all the crap around it in my club here in Stockholm. Nobody wants that.



Simply, no.

If the day comes, it probably won't, when we have no other choice but to join the KHL, most people will support it. But as long as we're doing fine we're not even close to join.

Just find it funny you say this, when yesterday Riga beat SKA.

Again you're trying to find ways to compare the SHL and KHL, when really it's impossible. A prospect hockey league vs a professional hockey league. Marketing is different, economics are different. I don't trust Gazprom either, but hopefully when they leave the KHL will be big enough to support itself.

If this culture sells in Sweden why not employ it in a Swedish KHL team? If cheerleaders are popular among Russians than Russian teams should employ them. It's very common in the NHL to see cheerleaders (most notably the NJ Devils and Nashville Predators). You're making Swede hockey fans sound like elitist who don't care about the other people's festivities around the world. If your cultures are different wouldn't that make you want to beat them twice as much? "Oh those dang
Metallurg Magnitogorsk fans like cheerleaders, let's show them how we do it in Sweden?"

In the end the problem with hockey fans to me is the same reason that makes hockey amazing and that's tradition. North American fans have their traditions and won't break them, European fans have their traditions and won't break them, and Russian fans have their traditions and won't break them. Sports never going to grow without the help of eachother.

thevreelander is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 02:34 PM
  #638
thevreelander
Registered User
 
thevreelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scud9 View Post
For curiosity I counted Lev Prague's attendance this year and it was little less than 5000 per a game. (4987 to be exact) And they drew over 10000 against SKA and over 8000 against Riga. There were a couple games in which they got less than 3000 attendance.

So what does this mean? In my opinion culture in club sports in Europe is different from America. You can't copy a model from America and expect it to work in Europe. The club competition in Europe is based on rivalties within the country they operate. It is like one proud Stoke City fan once said: "my love for my town is mirrored in my devotion to my team". KHL is doomed out side of its comfort zone: Former States of Soviet Union.
Can you give me where you find these numbers because the only attendance figures I can come up with for the Lev Praha are either on wikipedia(I don't trust those numbers) or hockeydb and they don't give 2013-2014 season yet. They give the 2012-2013 in which they averaged 7161 fans per game.

thevreelander is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #639
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,417
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Because they suck.
Wow what a discussion

Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 03:00 PM
  #640
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Wow what a discussion
I'm sure plenty of non-SKA fans would agree with my statement.

Jussi is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 03:01 PM
  #641
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,417
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
I'm sure plenty of non-SKA fans would agree with my statement.
I somewhat agree, but this should be a discussion, not throwing phrases around like you drank too much beer

Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline  
Old
12-09-2013, 03:15 PM
  #642
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I somewhat agree, but this should be a discussion, not throwing phrases around like you drank too much beer
Well considering the amount of money they've thrown without winning anything to establish themselves as the Rangers/Leafs of KHL, saying they suck would be appropriate.

Jussi is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:07 AM
  #643
pulverapa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Again you're trying to find ways to compare the SHL and KHL, when really it's impossible. A prospect hockey league vs a professional hockey league. Marketing is different, economics are different. I don't trust Gazprom either, but hopefully when they leave the KHL will be big enough to support itself.
I was just answering the another question where someone asked what the difference was between the leagues.

pulverapa is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 02:20 AM
  #644
scud9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Can you give me where you find these numbers because the only attendance figures I can come up with for the Lev Praha are either on wikipedia(I don't trust those numbers) or hockeydb and they don't give 2013-2014 season yet. They give the 2012-2013 in which they averaged 7161 fans per game.
http://en.khl.ru/calendar/

KHL as it is for now has been actually good for SM-liiga. Because of Bosman-rule and the peanuts that NHL pays for elite players we haven't got fair amount of money. Instead KHL has paid good money to finnish teams. That has significantly evened the SM-liiga and the competition for the title has been good. The total amount of Finnish players playing abroad has been the same, only difference is that there is far less players playing in Sweden for example.

scud9 is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 08:20 AM
  #645
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scud9 View Post
http://en.khl.ru/calendar/

KHL as it is for now has been actually good for SM-liiga. Because of Bosman-rule and the peanuts that NHL pays for elite players we haven't got fair amount of money. Instead KHL has paid good money to finnish teams. That has significantly evened the SM-liiga and the competition for the title has been good. The total amount of Finnish players playing abroad has been the same, only difference is that there is far less players playing in Sweden for example.
We've gotten just the right amount compared to talent. KHL clauses are making it harder to get any big money and with Jokerit going to KHL, every player in Finland is going to demand those easy cheap/free exit clauses into their contracts.

Jussi is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #646
Sucrologist
Registered User
 
Sucrologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 393
vCash: 500
From the interview of HC Milano's chairman Ico Migliore to a Belarusian sports portal goal.by (full in Russian)
The main points:
On clubs structure (in general):
• Clubs shouldn't spend all the sponsor money "Spend 7 out of 10 million given, save other money for the team's image."
• Don't deal with one sponsor only, if it abandons you, the team will be screwed.
• A club should be one big family, that includes not only players and coaches. You should tell to your business-partner that he's a part of the team and invite him to club's events.

On junior hockey:
• There not so many hockey schools in Italy, but in HC Milano junior hockey plays very important role.
• More than 50% percent of club's players are from that school, so it's beneficial for the club.
• They invite foreign specialists.
• Club pays for private schools sometimes, education is very important.
• There are 150 people in the club's structure.

On HC Milano:
• They consider club to be founded in 1924.
• The club cooperates with football Milan and Inter, inc. ticket program.
• Accounting for hockey is much easier than for football grands, but in hockey it's difficult to lure sponsors in the local league, therefore their goal is to join the KHL.

On joining the KHL:
• He has never said that they were going to join in 2013/2014 season, it's all journalists.
• Joining the KHL is a very complicated subject, they discuss the possiblity to enter the league with Medvedev
• Lamborghini might become a sponsor, they currently discuss it.
• By his calculations, 9-10 million euros should be enough to join the league, he has a business plan which many people of hockey has approved (Their budget is 2 million now).
• Italian monetary market is more developed that Russian, so it's easier to make business.
• Joining the KHL will increase the popularity of hockey in Italy and HC Milano in particular, making it easier to deal with sponsors.


Last edited by Sucrologist: 12-10-2013 at 02:21 PM.
Sucrologist is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 04:45 PM
  #647
thevreelander
Registered User
 
thevreelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scud9 View Post
http://en.khl.ru/calendar/

KHL as it is for now has been actually good for SM-liiga. Because of Bosman-rule and the peanuts that NHL pays for elite players we haven't got fair amount of money. Instead KHL has paid good money to finnish teams. That has significantly evened the SM-liiga and the competition for the title has been good. The total amount of Finnish players playing abroad has been the same, only difference is that there is far less players playing in Sweden for example.
That's awesome never knew that was there.

thevreelander is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 04:49 PM
  #648
thevreelander
Registered User
 
thevreelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucrologist View Post
From the interview of HC Milano's chairman Ico Migliore to a Belarusian sports portal goal.by (full in Russian)
The main points:
On clubs structure (in general):
• Clubs shouldn't spend all the sponsor money "Spend 7 out of 10 million given, save other money for the team's image."
• Don't deal with one sponsor only, if it abandons you, the team will be screwed.
• A club should be one big family, that includes not only players and coaches. You should tell to your business-partner that he's a part of the team and invite him to club's events.

On junior hockey:
• There not so many hockey schools in Italy, but in HC Milano junior hockey plays very important role.
• More than 50% percent of club's players are from that school, so it's beneficial for the club.
• They invite foreign specialists.
• Club pays for private schools sometimes, education is very important.
• There are 150 people in the club's structure.

On HC Milano:
• They consider club to be founded in 1924.
• The club cooperates with football Milan and Inter, inc. ticket program.
• Accounting for hockey is much easier than for football grands, but in hockey it's difficult to lure sponsors in the local league, therefore their goal is to join the KHL.

On joining the KHL:
• He has never said that they were going to join in 2013/2014 season, it's all journalists.
• Joining the KHL is a very complicated subject, they discuss the possiblity to enter the league with Medvedev
• Lamborghini might become a sponsor, they currently discuss it.
• By his calculations, 9-10 million euros should be enough to join the league, he has a business plan which many people of hockey has approved (Their budget is 2 million now).
Italian monetary market is more developed that Russian, so it's easier to make business.
• Joining the KHL will increase the popularity of hockey in Italy and HC Milano in particular, making it easier to deal with sponsors.
Well thats true. If hockey becomes popular in Italy/Milan and that's a big if, they'll have a much easier time keeping up in the KHL.

thevreelander is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 05:21 PM
  #649
ficohok*
Mrzim Kanadu !
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Well thats true. If hockey becomes popular in Italy/Milan and that's a big if, they'll have a much easier time keeping up in the KHL.
Italy played at Olympics in 1994, 1998, 2006, played several times in 1/4 final of WC's and yet their hockey is located only in northern villages where official language for 95% people is german. I doubt that Milan presence in KHL would expand the popularity of ice hockey across whole Italy.

ficohok* is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 06:07 PM
  #650
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
A prospect hockey league vs a professional hockey league.
Maybe you should ask all the non-russian hockey players in KHL which league they'd rather play in, KHL or NHL. SHL and KHL is the same. It's for players who doesn't cut it in the NHL.

Jonimaus is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.