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Old
12-09-2013, 10:30 AM
  #176
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Are you saying Bickel on the wing wouldn't do his job better than what Pyatt and Pouliet supposedly do? P and P sleepwalk through every shift while Bickel would at the very least hit and stick up for his mates....From what I read Stu hasn't lost a fight all year in the A

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12-09-2013, 11:04 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Some might not like it but if Haley or Bickel were healthy I'd have no problem bringing either of them up right now. Neither are the answer though on their own. Haley is not that big and Bickel is decent as a heavy but not great.
no reason for Haley not to take some shifts on the 4th line right now.

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12-09-2013, 11:14 AM
  #178
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Stu Bickel! The man will spark the Rangers to victory! Heart! Energy! Toughness! Fighting!! SPARK!!!!!!

Give me a break.

This team just ain't that talented, guys.

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12-09-2013, 11:14 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Never understood a lot of hockey fans who say that if a guy is big, and plays any type of physical game that they have to fight.

People constantly reference Boyle's size and how he should be fighting when there is absolutely no reason that should be happening.

ANd you NEVER want guys like Kreider or Nash fighting.


People sometimes confuse toughness with fighting though and we need some guys on the lower lines who actually hit a little... We have NO hitting. Hitting is the best form of toughness you can have.
It's because if you are big in the NHL you must play a physical game. Almost certainly you will be challenged.

Then you must fight.

Or not. And simply be labeled as soft and be mocked continually for such. Which is clearly not where you or your team want you to be.

Look at Boyle. If he did not play physical he would essentially be useless and run out of the league. He can't fight worth a damn....but at least he will drop the gloves....to cover his face and head.

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12-09-2013, 11:16 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
no reason for Haley not to take some shifts on the 4th line right now.
Except he is hurt.

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Old
12-09-2013, 11:18 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Some might not like it but if Haley or Bickel were healthy I'd have no problem bringing either of them up right now. Neither are the answer though on their own. Haley is not that big and Bickel is decent as a heavy but not great.

McIlrath might be ready as well. Those are pretty much the in house solutions.
He's not ready.

But because it's the Rangers, he'll be called up as a rookie to fill gaping defensive holes and be the sole enforcer on a soft, soft team.

Talk about painting a target on the kids back. Typical Rangers.

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12-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #182
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Strange really, we have many big guys who can't fight or scared, afraid to fight. Then we have little Zuccarello who's all over the place and ignites like a rocket if being messed with.

Zucc is not afraid to drop them if thats what it takes, although he'd probably lose. At least he got balls, unlike many other Rangers. Too many chicken on this team.

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12-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #183
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Except he is hurt.
No, I know that. I meant in general.

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12-09-2013, 11:36 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Zucc is not afraid to drop them if thats what it takes,
How do you know this?

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12-09-2013, 11:38 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Strange really, we have many big guys who can't fight or scared, afraid to fight. Then we have little Zuccarello who's all over the place and ignites like a rocket if being messed with.

Zucc is not afraid to drop them if thats what it takes, although he'd probably lose. At least he got balls, unlike many other Rangers. Too many chicken on this team.
it seems like the Rangers only target big guys that cant skate, have no offensive ability, cant fight or do something useful on the ice... its pretty heartless how this team is.. does the players on this team even care?? Callahan was a captain, at this point he has not been acting like one.. heck Nash is more of a captain lately than Callahan ... Callahan learned a lot from Chris Drury. i wonder if he learned how to be overpaid as an UFA, Callahan i hope gets traded. Rangers can get something useful back in a trade..

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12-09-2013, 11:55 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Strange really, we have many big guys who can't fight or scared, afraid to fight. Then we have little Zuccarello who's all over the place and ignites like a rocket if being messed with.

Zucc is not afraid to drop them if thats what it takes, although he'd probably lose. At least he got balls, unlike many other Rangers. Too many chicken on this team.
The night that a 5-5 ish player has to become the symbol for Rangers toughness is the night that the Fire Sather chants should rain down from Garden rafters endlessly and his mates on the bench should hang their heads in shame.

What a joke that we even have to discuss this. And the pathetic thing is that he already is probably one of tougher players we have.

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12-09-2013, 01:13 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Strange really, we have many big guys who can't fight or scared, afraid to fight. Then we have little Zuccarello who's all over the place and ignites like a rocket if being messed with.

Zucc is not afraid to drop them if thats what it takes, although he'd probably lose. At least he got balls, unlike many other Rangers. Too many chicken on this team.
Sorry but looking for Zuccarello to drop the gloves is nuts. He's 5' ****ing 7" for christ sakes and he might even be shorter than that.

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Originally Posted by Jarkko Immonen View Post
Stu Bickel! The man will spark the Rangers to victory! Heart! Energy! Toughness! Fighting!! SPARK!!!!!!

Give me a break.

This team just ain't that talented, guys.
Did not mean to suggest that Bickel's insertion into the lineup is going to spark this team to victory. He is however a decent fighter with size who will stick up for his teammates. There is also just a little bit of crazy in his play--qualities that this team lacks. Maybe you've been spending all your time just watching the Wolfpack and not the big club but the Rangers are about as s-o-f-t as it gets and IMO it's factoring into why they're playing like ****. I fail to see how replacing say Bickel for Pyatt would hurt the Rangers at all. In any case it ain't just ****ing lack of talent that's holding this team back--these guys with the exception of Dorsett don't stick up for each other and Dorsett ain't 6'0 tall like the team page says--he's more like 5'10" and skinny as well.

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Old
12-09-2013, 01:28 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I fail to see how replacing say Bickel for Pyatt would hurt the Rangers at all. In any case it ain't just ****ing lack of talent that's holding this team back--these guys with the exception of Dorsett don't stick up for each other and Dorsett ain't 6'0 tall like the team page says--he's more like 5'10" and skinny as well.
There would be absolutely no difference in playing Bickel over Pyatt on the 4th line. I don't want to see Bickel on D ever again but as a 4th line winger it doesn't matter. He is a good scrapper and throws wild punches unlike many current heavies that hang on and look to score quick shots. There needs to be some sort of physicality. Last night was ugly.

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12-09-2013, 01:49 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Sorry but looking for Zuccarello to drop the gloves is nuts. He's 5' ****ing 7" for christ sakes and he might even be shorter than that.
Where did I say it would be a smart thing to do? I said he'll do it anyway. And maybe it's just as good, because none of the bigger guys will protect him.

The refs are doing a better job of protecting Zucc. He has dropped the gloves a couple of times, but the zebras jumped in quickly. Maybe they think this will not end well..

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Old
12-09-2013, 02:59 PM
  #190
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I am serious. Let's bring up more meatheads that take up space being useless!! Clearly we need more sieves on the back end.
It's not as if the alternative(s) is adding much, if any, productivity on the ice.

If we're going to lose, let's at least lose with some emotion and leave a statement on the ice from with what to build on.

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12-09-2013, 03:24 PM
  #191
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It's not as if the alternative(s) is adding much, if any, productivity on the ice.

If we're going to lose, let's at least lose with some emotion and leave a statement on the ice from with what to build on.
I'm not of the belief that this coaching staff feels comfortable coaching the type of players off the ice. The on ice product reflects a group of likable, slender, nice guys, which is great if you're trying to make friends in Chelsea. Even the tough guys are nice guy tough, they will step in and defend when not out of breath, but to initiate? To actually step up?

Well I don't know if that is going to happen under AV & Arnie.

The line up up front and the back end to a degree tells me this group at large is more sensitive than emotional, and given the underdeveloped physique of a lot of forwards up front, pushing back will hurt physically in addition to making them feel bad. So why bother trying?

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12-09-2013, 03:47 PM
  #192
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I'm not of the belief that this coaching staff feels comfortable coaching the type of players off the ice. The on ice product reflects a group of likable, slender, nice guys, which is great if you're trying to make friends in Chelsea. Even the tough guys are nice guy tough, they will step in and defend when not out of breath, but to initiate? To actually step up?

Well I don't know if that is going to happen under AV & Arnie.

The line up up front and the back end to a degree tells me this group at large is more sensitive than emotional, and given the underdeveloped physique of a lot of forwards up front, pushing back will hurt physically in addition to making them feel bad. So why bother trying?
The irony is that Bickel, Avery, Boogaard (at one time), Prust, and some of the other players that we'd consider to have been among the tougher Rangers throughout the recent years were some of the more popular players in the lockerroom and active on the NYC social scene. Of course their compadre often was Hank...

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12-09-2013, 04:17 PM
  #193
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12-09-2013, 04:18 PM
  #194
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Bob Mckenzie is obviously just part of the xbox generation. Pick up a hockey stick, not a joystick Bob!

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Old
12-09-2013, 04:43 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by NGgator60 View Post
The irony is that Bickel, Avery, Boogaard (at one time), Prust, and some of the other players that we'd consider to have been among the tougher Rangers throughout the recent years were some of the more popular players in the lockerroom and active on the NYC social scene. Of course their compadre often was Hank...
I think you just pointed out the difference between the type of guys teammates love having as opposed to the type of guys AV & Arnie seem to enjoy coaching.

My hunch is that AV is a statistician of a coach, a Jaques Martin in Post-Lockout II hockey. After watching ~35 games of his system, it seems to me that he views plays as odds. Meaning instead of collapsing, go skate over there because the likelihood of this happening as opposed to that.

It doesn't appear to be instinctive, and far more reactionary; based on decision making, both with the puck and without it, in addition reading their teammates and opponents. It's why the guys that can think as fast as they can make a play are doing well, and others not so much.

It's a different game and not a straight line game. There aren't elite level skaters and puck handlers on this team that can give 22+ Min and dominate the puck outside of Rick Nash, and Rick doesn't get Nashty every game now does he?

Teams can get away from playing a straight line game if the personnel is there to log 22 a night each. Then a coach can have them out there for most of the game in some form or another. OTT has 65, 19, 9. PIT 87, 71, 58, 14. WSH 19, 8, 52, 74. CHI 2, 88, 19, 81, 10.

Jared Cowen is struggling this year with the free flow system in OTT. Last year they chomped it down with Spezza and Karlsson missing most of the year, playing a simpler, tougher, more physical straight line game. It worked out okay for them considering the circumstances.

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12-09-2013, 06:06 PM
  #196
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I like the move today. While Asham does not solve this issue by himself, you are replacing Miller, who clearly needs more development in the AHL where he can get first line minutes every night, with a guy who at least gives us some semblance of a tough guy.

People say it won't make a difference, but it does. Maybe not in the W/L column directly, but it will help our confidence. Sestito, who's not even a good fighter, basically did whatever he wanted in front of our net because he knew we literally could do nothing to stop it. Granted, Sestito isn't exactly gonna be putting up a point a game, but he CAN lay out McDonagh or Nash and knock them out for the season. Having Asham, if nothing else, keeps idiots like Sestito in check because at the very least we now have a threat to respond. It also frees up people like Kreider to play with an edge because he knows at least one person will have his back.

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12-09-2013, 06:15 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Blue Regime View Post
I like the move today. While Asham does not solve this issue by himself, you are replacing Miller, who clearly needs more development in the AHL where he can get first line minutes every night, with a guy who at least gives us some semblance of a tough guy.

People say it won't make a difference, but it does. Maybe not in the W/L column directly, but it will help our confidence. Sestito, who's not even a good fighter, basically did whatever he wanted in front of our net because he knew we literally could do nothing to stop it. Granted, Sestito isn't exactly gonna be putting up a point a game, but he CAN lay out McDonagh or Nash and knock them out for the season. Having Asham, if nothing else, keeps idiots like Sestito in check because at the very least we now have a threat to respond. It also frees up people like Kreider to play with an edge because he knows at least one person will have his back.
Thank you. Yes, you don't win the game from winning fights, but keeping a** hats like Tostito in check might give skill guys a little more room and confidence to do what they need to do.

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12-09-2013, 06:21 PM
  #198
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Too much sense in your post whats wrong with you?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Regime View Post
I like the move today. While Asham does not solve this issue by himself, you are replacing Miller, who clearly needs more development in the AHL where he can get first line minutes every night, with a guy who at least gives us some semblance of a tough guy.

People say it won't make a difference, but it does. Maybe not in the W/L column directly, but it will help our confidence. Sestito, who's not even a good fighter, basically did whatever he wanted in front of our net because he knew we literally could do nothing to stop it. Granted, Sestito isn't exactly gonna be putting up a point a game, but he CAN lay out McDonagh or Nash and knock them out for the season. Having Asham, if nothing else, keeps idiots like Sestito in check because at the very least we now have a threat to respond. It also frees up people like Kreider to play with an edge because he knows at least one person will have his back.

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12-09-2013, 07:27 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Blue Regime View Post
I like the move today. While Asham does not solve this issue by himself, you are replacing Miller, who clearly needs more development in the AHL where he can get first line minutes every night, with a guy who at least gives us some semblance of a tough guy.

People say it won't make a difference, but it does. Maybe not in the W/L column directly, but it will help our confidence. Sestito, who's not even a good fighter, basically did whatever he wanted in front of our net because he knew we literally could do nothing to stop it. Granted, Sestito isn't exactly gonna be putting up a point a game, but he CAN lay out McDonagh or Nash and knock them out for the season. Having Asham, if nothing else, keeps idiots like Sestito in check because at the very least we now have a threat to respond. It also frees up people like Kreider to play with an edge because he knows at least one person will have his back.
The problem is Asham is not really able to handle guys like Orr, McGrattan etc. but he won't back down either. He's a good fighter for his size--which is better than Dorsett.

But anyway just to digress--two years in and I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Pyatt's function is. Not that happy with Pouliot either but he is capable of scoring the odd goal and every once in a while he even does. Dominic Moore has not really worked out well either. There's 3 guys right there who should not be back next year and add Richards toxic buy out of a contract and you have 4.

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12-09-2013, 07:32 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Blue Regime View Post
I like the move today. While Asham does not solve this issue by himself, you are replacing Miller, who clearly needs more development in the AHL where he can get first line minutes every night, with a guy who at least gives us some semblance of a tough guy.

People say it won't make a difference, but it does. Maybe not in the W/L column directly, but it will help our confidence. Sestito, who's not even a good fighter, basically did whatever he wanted in front of our net because he knew we literally could do nothing to stop it. Granted, Sestito isn't exactly gonna be putting up a point a game, but he CAN lay out McDonagh or Nash and knock them out for the season. Having Asham, if nothing else, keeps idiots like Sestito in check because at the very least we now have a threat to respond. It also frees up people like Kreider to play with an edge because he knows at least one person will have his back.
Asham is done. No one is intimidated by him.

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