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Should John Moore be sent down?

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:12 PM
  #1
Raspewtin
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Should John Moore be sent down?

I mean it when I say, my eyes bleed watching him play. He literally has NO defensive hockey IQ, and is caught running around way too often. Loses his man constantly, wont play physical, and doesn't score nearly enough to make up for this.

He's only 23 but he's been playing so poorly "being young" doesn't do it for me as an excuse.

And people thought he made DZ expendable? Laughable. DZ has been our 3rd best defenseman these past few days. It'd be criminal to have him scratched again in favor of Moore.

Send him down, in my opinion.

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12-09-2013, 12:13 PM
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slipknottin
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And he's still better than MDZ

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12-09-2013, 12:13 PM
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Raspewtin
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
And he's still better than MDZ
Based on what? Skating?

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12-09-2013, 12:15 PM
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If and when Del Zotto is traded I think you're looking at your new whipping boy.

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12-09-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
And he's still better than MDZ
Agreed.

Based on:

Skating
Offensive IQ (Cool, DZ can skate it up the ice, make a move against a flat-footed forward, and fire a jelly donut into the goalies chest. He makes piss poor decisions on the rush)
Shooting (I can probably go back and quote about 6,000 posts from members of this board about DZ not being able to hit water if he fell out of a submerged submarine, etc...)

Maybe if John Moore wasn't left to defend 2 on 1s from terrible pinching decisions by Falk, he'd look as good as DZ looks with Anton Stralman

Moore
DZ
Falk

In that order.

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12-09-2013, 12:16 PM
  #6
slipknottin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Based on what? Skating?
His entire game is better. Defense, offense. Everything.

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12-09-2013, 12:16 PM
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Moore is not waiver exempt

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12-09-2013, 12:19 PM
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Raspewtin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
His entire game is better. Defense, offense. Everything.
Defense? Seriously? John Moore has no defensive game at all. None. He's not physical and loses coverage every other shift. He's entirely at fault for not clearing the puck on the first goal last night.

Yeah those 5 points this season, some offensive IQ. He's got a great shot and can rush the puck, but that's it. His career high in a season for points is 7. DZ's is 41. Where's your evidence that Moore is this offensive dynamo?

The only things he has on DZ are skating and shot. DZ might make braindead plays sometimes, but Moore just has no defensive brain to go dead. Stupid hockey player.

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12-09-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Defense? Seriously? John Moore has no defensive game at all. None. He's not physical and loses coverage every other shift. He's entirely at fault for not clearing the puck on the first goal last night.

Yeah those 5 points this season, some offensive IQ. He's got a great shot and can rush the puck, but that's it. His career high in a season for points is 7. DZ's is 41. Where's your evidence that Moore is this offensive dynamo?

The only things he has on DZ are skating and shot. DZ might make braindead plays sometimes, but Moore just has no defensive brain to go dead. Stupid hockey player.
MDZ was better last year and has been better this year. That said, I have higher hopes for Moore since he is still relatively fresh into the league.

So ceiling wise, I believe Moore>MDZ, but it's close.

Currently, MDZ>Moore and it's not close. Moore should be sent down. I'd like to see McIlrath get his cup.

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12-09-2013, 12:22 PM
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im a big fan but he has been pretty brutal lately. he makes some silly decisions and leaves his check alot to wander and scramble around. defensively hes got a ways to go.

i would keep him right there. let him learn.

his raw tools, skating and shot are worth it. long term, hes gonna be a very solid player.

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12-09-2013, 12:25 PM
  #11
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I don't see this sky high potential everyone else does. I see him being Jordan Leopold-lite. Mediocre offensive defenseman who should be playing sheltered minutes. His skating and shot, again, are great. But he has no IQ at all. Every pass he attempts is caught in a player's skates, or results in a turnover. He made many of those last night. People think MDZ has no IQ, I don't know what to say about Moore. He has a negative IQ.

Being a good skater doesn't solve anything if you have absolutely no brain.

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12-09-2013, 12:31 PM
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Either way this argument is meaningless. Send him down for what? Mcilrath? That solves the teams problems?

What's the third pairing? Mcilrath and Falk? That's not going to work.

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12-09-2013, 12:35 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
McIlrath isn't ready but that's not because this league is "too fast for him". He's actually pretty mobile and has great gap control. He's not ready for other reasons.

I'd rather Allen.
Allen isn't as good as JMoore is right now. Sorry to disappoint.

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12-09-2013, 12:37 PM
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We have 2 dmen that have looked good playing man.

Very few teams in the NHL play man.

Solution: trade all dmen.

Makes perfect sense. I have no doubt Sather agrees.

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12-09-2013, 12:37 PM
  #15
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He needs to be paired with more of a "stay at home" defensemen.

He had success last year with Eminger, who rarely strayed too far ahead.

So far his two most common pairings are MDZ and Falk, who both always leave their position and chase players in all zones, especially in the defensive end.

He should probably be put with Girardi, because McD can play with anyone.

Moore has been far from good this year, but he's not getting any help

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12-09-2013, 12:39 PM
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Um...NO.

Your crazy if you think he needs to be sent down

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12-09-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
We have 2 dmen that have looked good playing man.

Very few teams in the NHL play man.

Solution: trade all dmen.

Makes perfect sense. I have no doubt Sather agrees.
It was a big mistake moving to man. And a completely unecesssary one at that.

McIlrath wouldn't look like a pylon. I too don't think he's ready, but this team is lacking a ton of what he brings. Giving him 5 games wouldn't hurt. And some guys step in and their play adapts better then anyone expects it too.

I'm not saying call him up for good, I'd just like to see him get a cup to judge where he's at. Moore is getting burned night in night out.

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12-09-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Moore is not waiver exempt
I guess no one read this.

Moore won't be sent down because he would require waivers, and he would absolutely be picked up by another team. He hasn't been great, but short of a trade, he will be on this team for the rest of the year.

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12-09-2013, 12:44 PM
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Raspewtin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Moore is not waiver exempt
I missed this. Ah. Not prepared to lose him like that for nothing.

Well there's that.

I still think he's been the worst d-man on the team.

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12-09-2013, 12:45 PM
  #20
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J Moore is doing fine. Outside of McD I think he has the most upside. Girardi is somewhat exposed in AV's system. Falk is very stable. Stralman still very underappreciated. Staal, following these injuries, is a competent player but is limited in his abilities in my opinion.
MDZ is the problem. Here's a perfect example. Last night against Caps, in his own end to the left of the Lundqvist, he faces pressure and decides to lightly lob the puck across the goal mouth to no one. Caps DMan pinches gets a quality shot on goal, Caps maintain pressure. MDZ lacks hockey IQ.
There were several other examples last night where MDZ could have been more assertive or made a more intelligent play to breakout of zone or limit opposing teams quality scoring chance.

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12-09-2013, 12:48 PM
  #21
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J Moore is doing fine. Outside of McD I think he has the most upside. Girardi is somewhat exposed in AV's system. Falk is very stable. Stralman still very underappreciated. Staal, following these injuries, is a competent player but is limited in his abilities in my opinion.
MDZ is the problem. Here's a perfect example. Last night against Caps, in his own end to the left of the Lundqvist, he faces pressure and decides to lightly lob the puck across the goal mouth to no one. Caps DMan pinches gets a quality shot on goal, Caps maintain pressure. MDZ lacks hockey IQ.
There were several other examples last night where MDZ could have been more assertive or made a more intelligent play to breakout of zone or limit opposing teams quality scoring chance.
I like how you conveniently leave out J Moore being caught doing nothing and letting that 1st caps goal get scored. Also how he misses with a pathetic poke check and Ryder just dances around him to score a goal. But yeah DZ is the problem.

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:49 PM
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Serious question, does this team go back to zone? That's a pretty backwards argument considering everybody recognizes Sather should've made forward adjustments for the new system, but AV changed the defensive system, and that's off limits to change.

I'd rather zone to some degree, admittedly.

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:52 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I don't see this sky high potential everyone else does. I see him being Jordan Leopold-lite. Mediocre offensive defenseman who should be playing sheltered minutes. His skating and shot, again, are great. But he has no IQ at all. Every pass he attempts is caught in a player's skates, or results in a turnover. He made many of those last night. People think MDZ has no IQ, I don't know what to say about Moore. He has a negative IQ.

Being a good skater doesn't solve anything if you have absolutely no brain.
J. Moore doesn't have a negative IQ...

The issue is that He gets caught trying to do too much, just like any youngster that is in over his head... And the situations that he does get caught in are not ALWAYS his fault... Unlike MDZ, Moore has the speed and skill to make up for SOME of his mistakes.

The problem with MDZ is purely mental in that he cannot seem to process information quick enough on the ice. When he's rushing with the puck, he panics and takles dummy shots. He also tends to falter under pressure, especially when on the PP unit.

Moore on the other hand takes too much time to do his things... This indicates a few things... For Him, it can attributed to him trying too much, and being too young to understand his limitations.
MDZ doesn't get that pass because most of the time he isn't doing ANYTHING of note, especially enough to warrant those mistakes, and simply **** up to the same degree that Moore will (he will still choke up a puck, or miss a pass to the point)...

I know there are no style points in the NHL, but Moore as a mental stability that MDZ will never have, and that is why Moores ceiling is so much higher

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Old
12-09-2013, 01:15 PM
  #24
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If you ignore John Moore's skating, you'll find out he really cant play defense in the NHL. Its been that way since he got here.

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12-09-2013, 01:22 PM
  #25
Raspewtin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you ignore John Moore's skating, you'll find out he really cant play defense in the NHL. Its been that way since he got here.
Skating is more important than every other aspect in hockey apparently .

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