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OT: Yanks ship out The Unit

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Old
01-05-2007, 06:36 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
Players dropped-

Sheffield 16M
Wright 7M
RJ 16M
Bernie 1.5M
Wilson 3.5M
Mussina paycut 8M
Villone 2M
Sturtze 1.5M
Dotel 2M

approx total- 57M

Players added

Pettite 16M
Mientkiagaig 1.5M
Igawa 4M
Vizcaino 1.5M

appox total- 21M

We dropped about 36M, rough estimate.

Yeah make sure you add the 20 something million you guys paid just to talk with Igawa ;-)

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01-05-2007, 07:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
(Yet another reason to move Damon and his suddenly very reasonable contract.) I see a staff of 80% home grown talent down the road.
Damon, Jeter and Manny suddenly look reasonable. The 80% homegrown staff is not happening. If we are luck, it would be 3/5ths. The Yankees shed a lot of payroll and the Twins will be looking to unload Santana after next year. Plus CZam is on the market next year. While I would love to see 4 home grown starters, that is just not likely
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Speaking of which, I have a feeling that Hughes forces his way into the starting five out of spring training...
Again, I don't think so. Everything that I am hearing states that AT BEST he comes up post-AB break. Probably not even until September, and the most likely case is 2008. I think that people like Rasner & Karstens are going to get a shot first. Even some one like the youngster whom they just picked up, whom I give an outside chance of making it out of spring training. They are about as carefull with Hughes as any organization has been with any prospect in near memory.
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I'd love to see Phelps suddenly bloom into the player I thought he could be when he was first coming up. He had awesome raw power. Highly doubtful though...
His window is closing. He does have excellent pop, but, like Cerrano, bats fear the curve.

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01-05-2007, 08:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Damon, Jeter and Manny suddenly look reasonable. The 80% homegrown staff is not happening. If we are luck, it would be 3/5ths. The Yankees shed a lot of payroll and the Twins will be looking to unload Santana after next year. Plus CZam is on the market next year. While I would love to see 4 home grown starters, that is just not likely

Again, I don't think so. Everything that I am hearing states that AT BEST he comes up post-AB break. Probably not even until September, and the most likely case is 2008. I think that people like Rasner & Karstens are going to get a shot first. Even some one like the youngster whom they just picked up, whom I give an outside chance of making it out of spring training. They are about as carefull with Hughes as any organization has been with any prospect in near memory.

His window is closing. He does have excellent pop, but, like Cerrano, bats fear the curve.
Hughes will be up with the team this year, i can almost guarantee that (unless all 5 of our starters become lights out and are 100% healthy). Hughes will stay in the minors to perfect his change. once he does that, youre probably looking at a guy who could be an ace of this staff the moment he steps in.

the kid is that good.

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01-05-2007, 09:06 PM
  #54
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If Hughes isn't up by Mid-June I'd be shocked.

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01-05-2007, 09:30 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Green has a NTC that he would have to waive and probably wouldn't. I don't like the idea of Chavez playing everyday.
Just so you know, once a No Trade Clause is waived, it's gone for good. It doesn't travel with you.

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01-05-2007, 09:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 2Leetch_94 View Post
If Hughes isn't up by Mid-June I'd be shocked.
I hope this move frees up the spot for him to start the season in the rotation.

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01-05-2007, 10:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
the kid is that good.
I'm not saying that he is not good. He is one of the two best pitching prospects in the minors (Bailey being the other one). However, the Yankees are in no rush to bring him aboard. THey are being very carefull with him. And rightfully so. He doubled the amount of innings that he has ever pitched. I think that he could use a year in AAA. There is zero desire to rush the kid. Lots of people are clamoring to see him and he would probably make the rotation of lots of organizations. However, the Yankees are not like lots of organizations and can afford to let the kid develop properly.

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01-05-2007, 10:35 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Just so you know, once a No Trade Clause is waived, it's gone for good. It doesn't travel with you.
umm, no, thats not true.

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01-05-2007, 10:40 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I'm not saying that he is not good. He is one of the two best pitching prospects in the minors (Bailey being the other one). However, the Yankees are in no rush to bring him aboard. THey are being very carefull with him. And rightfully so. He doubled the amount of innings that he has ever pitched. I think that he could use a year in AAA. There is zero desire to rush the kid. Lots of people are clamoring to see him and he would probably make the rotation of lots of organizations. However, the Yankees are not like lots of organizations and can afford to let the kid develop properly.
see, thats the thing, he already HAS developed properly. The kid has been so lights out, to keep him playing against substandard opposition for anything other than to develop his change would be detrimental to his development. Staal would be a great example. people want him in hartford since playing in juniors against crappy competition doesnt help him at all, and in fact may let him develop bad habits he knows he can get away with.

he threw what...150 innings last year? and he was literally mowing people down. He posted an ERA of 1.29 in his final 10 starts, striking out 71 in 48.2 innings while walking 11 and not allowing a single home run.

Again, i think he should stay in AAA to master the change, its already damn good, but he needs to perfect it for sure, but its not about rushing him, its about bringing him up now that he has done everything hes supposed to do.

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01-06-2007, 05:59 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
see, thats the thing, he already HAS developed properly. The kid has been so lights out, to keep him playing against substandard opposition for anything other than to develop his change would be detrimental to his development. Staal would be a great example. people want him in hartford since playing in juniors against crappy competition doesnt help him at all, and in fact may let him develop bad habits he knows he can get away with.

he threw what...150 innings last year? and he was literally mowing people down. He posted an ERA of 1.29 in his final 10 starts, striking out 71 in 48.2 innings while walking 11 and not allowing a single home run.

Again, I think he should stay in AAA to master the change, its already damn good, but he needs to perfect it for sure, but its not about rushing him, its about bringing him up now that he has done everything hes supposed to do.

I don't know if I'd call his change damn good yet. It's slightly above average for sure but will almost surely develop into an above average or possibly a plus pitch.

I agree that he should stay down in AAA ball to work on the change and possibly add a split (I'd love to see him do this.) Hughes reminds me so much of a pre injury Mark Prior. Prior threw his fastball a little bit harder and had much more life on it (though Hughes may be able to add a tick or two to his) but Hughes' curveball is equal to Prior's, his change may already be better and command/control are superior to Prior's.

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01-06-2007, 09:21 AM
  #61
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the BIG DUD is more like it! Here is another classic example of why NY is so much different than playing in other cities. The pressure to perform at a high, consistant level is huge. Here is a HOF player who wimped out under the big lights of NY. Good bye and don't let the door hit you in the _ss!

What Cashman has done already this year deserves Exec of the Year. Dumped salary, got younger, got a lefty who knows what it takes to pitch in NY and win and got a bunch of prospects for players we had no interest in keeping!

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01-06-2007, 09:58 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Yeah make sure you add the 20 something million you guys paid just to talk with Igawa ;-)
Negotiating rights don't count against the luxury tax so I didn't include it. I assumed the original poster wanted to know how much counted on the books.

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01-06-2007, 10:09 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
see, thats the thing, he already HAS developed properly. The kid has been so lights out, to keep him playing against substandard opposition for anything other than to develop his change would be detrimental to his development. Staal would be a great example. people want him in hartford since playing in juniors against crappy competition doesnt help him at all, and in fact may let him develop bad habits he knows he can get away with.

he threw what...150 innings last year? and he was literally mowing people down. He posted an ERA of 1.29 in his final 10 starts, striking out 71 in 48.2 innings while walking 11 and not allowing a single home run.

Again, i think he should stay in AAA to master the change, its already damn good, but he needs to perfect it for sure, but its not about rushing him, its about bringing him up now that he has done everything hes supposed to do.
They're trying to stretch his arm out and get him used to throwing 150+ innings a year, something he isn't used to. They'd rather not do this and have him worry about major league hitters at the same time (only 20 years old). If a few guys in teh rotation get hurt you might see him in June the earliest but the Yankees will go wiht Rasner, Karstens and exhaust every other possibility before turning to Hughes. Its not a question of talent, its about health.

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01-06-2007, 12:26 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Just so you know, once a No Trade Clause is waived, it's gone for good. It doesn't travel with you.
I'm pretty sure that's not the case. It's written into your contract. You can agree to waive it at anytime, but waiving it once doesn't remove the language from your contract.

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01-06-2007, 11:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Korpido View Post
Hughes reminds me so much of a pre injury Mark Prior. Prior threw his fastball a little bit harder and had much more life on it (though Hughes may be able to add a tick or two to his) but Hughes' curveball is equal to Prior's, his change may already be better and command/control are superior to Prior's.
That is saying A LOT. If healthy, Prior can still be the best pitcher of his generation. Prior is unbelieveable good. Injuries (freak and otherwise) are the sole thing holding him back. He will still get there, IMO.

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01-07-2007, 06:41 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
That is saying A LOT. If healthy, Prior can still be the best pitcher of his generation. Prior is unbelieveable good. Injuries (freak and otherwise) are the sole thing holding him back. He will still get there, IMO.
I think Prior needs to get out of Chicago and take a full year to rehab if he ever wants to get back to where he was in 2003. I do think I could be done though

But with that said, If Hughes went to college instead of signing with the Yankees, he would have been a Sophomore last year.

Mark Prior's sophomore season at USC looked like this

W-L IP ERA H BB K WHIP
10-3 129 3.49 122 43 143 1.28

His K/BB ratio was about 3-1

Hughes at AA

W-L IP ERA H BB K WHIP
10-3 116 2.25 73 32 138 0.91

K/BB ratio of about 5-1, and if u look past his first 5 starts at AA, the numbers are even more ridiculous.

The level of play at AA is much higher than that of college ball, even though Pac 10 competition is very good.

Now Prior's Junior year at USC is the best season by any college pitcher ever but Hughes' 2006 season is much closer to it than Prior's sophomore year campaign.

These two are very much alike. Both are 6'5" 220, throw at about the same velocity, have equally awesome secondary stuff and have very smooth mechanics. The only thing that would give Prior a bit of an edge is the fact that he has tremendous movement on his fastball but Hughes' change up is already as good as Prior's, if not better and it will improve and we haven't even started talking about any other pitch he may add onto his arsenal.

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01-07-2007, 07:52 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Korpido View Post
These two are very much alike. Both are 6'5" 220, throw at about the same velocity, have equally awesome secondary stuff and have very smooth mechanics. The only thing that would give Prior a bit of an edge is the fact that he has tremendous movement on his fastball but Hughes' change up is already as good as Prior's, if not better and it will improve and we haven't even started talking about any other pitch he may add onto his arsenal.
See, that's the thing. I do not think that Hughes has "awesome" secondary stuff yet. I think that right now, his curve is pretty good, but his changeup still needs to have work on it. His fellow minor leaguer, Clippard, has the better change. Heck, Joba Chamberlain's fastball can be construed at being better than Hughes as well, right now. I just think that Hughes has a few things to still work on before he comes up. There is no reason to rush the kid.

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01-07-2007, 09:08 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
See, that's the thing. I do not think that Hughes has "awesome" secondary stuff yet. I think that right now, his curve is pretty good, but his changeup still needs to have work on it. His fellow minor leaguer, Clippard, has the better change. Heck, Joba Chamberlain's fastball can be construed at being better than Hughes as well, right now. I just think that Hughes has a few things to still work on before he comes up. There is no reason to rush the kid.
I don't think Hughes should be up right away but his curve is better than pretty good, it's his best pitch. His change is slightly above average right now but mostly only becuase he is inconsistent with it, Mark Prior's change is only slightly above average as well and that is being pretty generous.

What sets hughes apart from clippard and chamberlain and most other pitchers are his control and command. He's got an excellent hold of them on his fastball and curve and one he does it with the change, there is nothing stopping him from dominating the majors ala prior 2003.

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