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Mon., Dec. 9, 2013|Flyers 4 at Senators 5 (SO)

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Old
12-10-2013, 07:44 AM
  #126
Psuhockey
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
The defense is old, slow and non-offensive.

The problem is still right there in front of everybody.
Yup and the flyers haven't excepted that they can't spend their way out of this mess.

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12-10-2013, 07:53 AM
  #127
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Yup and the flyers haven't excepted that they can't spend their way out of this mess.
Streit is the only guy on the defense playing below average hockey right now. Coburn and Grossmann are quietly having the best years of their careers. Timonen is getting better as the season moves along. Even Mez and Schenn have looked better and better with each passing game.

It's not defense's fault that the forwards can't move the puck through the neutral zone, can't get in deep to establish a forecheck, and can't sustain any pressure in the offensive zone once they create the rare turnover. They're the second worst offense in the conference, yet they're a top ten defense. Clearly the defense is the problem.

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12-10-2013, 07:57 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Streit is the only guy on the defense playing below average hockey right now. Coburn and Grossmann are quietly having the best years of their careers. Timonen is getting better as the season moves along. Even Mez and Schenn have looked better and better with each passing game.

It's not defense's fault that the forwards can't move the puck through the neutral zone, can't get in deep to establish a forecheck, and can't sustain any pressure in the offensive zone once they create the rare turnover. They're the second worst offense in the conference, yet they're a top ten defense. Clearly the defense is the problem.
The defense is not a transition defense. They know how to lunk back there and play D, but they can't get the offense moving forward and most can't get the puck out without having to pass it, which is risk for turnover.

Its a bad defense overall.

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12-10-2013, 07:59 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Streit is the only guy on the defense playing below average hockey right now. Coburn and Grossmann are quietly having the best years of their careers. Timonen is getting better as the season moves along. Even Mez and Schenn have looked better and better with each passing game.

It's not defense's fault that the forwards can't move the puck through the neutral zone, can't get in deep to establish a forecheck, and can't sustain any pressure in the offensive zone once they create the rare turnover. They're the second worst offense in the conference, yet they're a top ten defense. Clearly the defense is the problem.
If the defense can't transition the puck up to the forwards faster and with tape to tape passes, they can't get speed thru the neutral zone and get in on the forecheck. Plus the opposing defense gets to reset and clog the neutral zone. I agree about sustaining pressured in the offensive zone is on the forwards, but I think you can count on your fingers and toes the amount of odd man rushes the flyers have had at even strength this year and probably just on your fingers. That's on the defensemen.

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12-10-2013, 08:01 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
The defense is not a transition defense. They know how to lunk back there and play D, but they can't get the offense moving forward and most can't get the puck out without having to pass it, which is risk for turnover.

Its a bad defense overall.
Yeahhhh, no. The defense moves the puck to the forwards effectively enough. This team has zero speed at forward. They get the puck in the neutral zone and **** their pants every single time. We have a team full of players with zero puck possession skills.

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12-10-2013, 08:02 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Yeahhhh, no. The defense moves the puck to the forwards effectively enough. This team has zero speed at forward. They get the puck in the neutral zone and **** their pants every single time. We have a team full of players with zero puck possession skills.
Hey, you believe what you want, I'll believe what I've seen.

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12-10-2013, 08:05 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
If the defense can't transition the puck up to the forwards faster and with tape to tape passes, they can't get speed thru the neutral zone and get in on the forecheck. Plus the opposing defense gets to reset and clog the neutral zone. I agree about sustaining pressured in the offensive zone is on the forwards, but I think you can count on your fingers and toes the amount of odd man rushes the flyers have had at even strength this year and probably just on your fingers. That's on the defensemen.
The forwards aren't doing **** to give the defense any passing lanes. You can see the defensemen looking for the outlets, but they're not there to be had. The wingers stick to the wall everytime. There's no swinging, no lane support, no puck support. Nothing from this craptastic bunch of forwards we have. The only forwards that routinely give each other passing lanes and support are Read-Couturier-Downie. The defensemen don't seem to struggle with them. Strange, right?

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12-10-2013, 08:13 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
The forwards aren't doing **** to give the defense any passing lanes. You can see the defensemen looking for the outlets, but they're not there to be had. The wingers stick to the wall everytime. There's no swinging, no lane support, no puck support. Nothing from this craptastic bunch of forwards we have. The only forwards that routinely give each other passing lanes and support are Read-Couturier-Downie. The defensemen don't seem to struggle with them. Strange, right?
Well being that the Couturier Read and Downie line is often out on the ice with the Timonen and Coburn pair against the other teams top line, it isn't a shock that they can transition the the puck up the ice well. Coburn and Timonen are the flyers best two defensemen with the combination of mobility and puck moving.

I agree the other two forward lines are not as good with puck support and back checking but the other two defense pairs are not as good at skating, moving the puck or making crisp outlet passes. It really is a combo of crap when both sets are on the ice.

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12-10-2013, 08:19 AM
  #134
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Well being that the Couturier Read and Downie line is often out on the ice with the Timonen and Coburn pair against the other teams top line, it isn't a shock that they can transition the the puck up the ice well. Coburn and Timonen are the flyers best two defensemen with the combination of mobility and puck moving.

I agree the other two forward lines are not as good with puck support and back checking but the other two defense pairs are not as good at skating, moving the puck or making crisp outlet passes. It really is a combo of crap when both sets are on the ice.
That I can buy into. It's pretty much somewhere in the middle.

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12-10-2013, 08:28 AM
  #135
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Gus will make mistakes, but on pure talent, he's probably the 2nd best D-man on this team. You want a puck mover? There is one sitting in the press box nightly.

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12-10-2013, 08:50 AM
  #136
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The defense is not effective at stretch passes so the forwards have to come back and receive a shorter pass (all else equal) and the forwards as a group lack speed to carry it through the neutral zone. They rely on dump and chase with forwards that often have trouble winning puck battles along the boards or are too slow to get there.

He is the best in the league, but if you look at Karlsson, he can single handedly take the puck out of his zone with speed, make stretch passes and even carry the puck into the offensive zone on his own and beat people. That makes the job of forwards infinitely easier. I think that is the point some posters are making.

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12-10-2013, 08:51 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Gus will make mistakes, but on pure talent, he's probably the 2nd best D-man on this team. You want a puck mover? There is one sitting in the press box nightly.
Youre way overrating Gus. 2nd best puck mover maybe. No way he's better than coburn, Grossmann, and kimmo. But he should be in over useless mez or schenn. Gus hasn't proven anything to say he's the second best dman on the team though he hasn't exactly had a fair shake.

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12-10-2013, 09:23 AM
  #138
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How did Voracek look yesterday? I know he scored a goal but outside of that, was there any improvement in his game or does he still look like last Jan+Feb?

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12-10-2013, 09:44 AM
  #139
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The Schenn brothers blow.

Brayden Schenn seems completely useless. He reminds me of a middle school kid playing hockey with men. He constantly falls, doesn't drive his legs and frustrates the **** out of me. I feel like most of his goals have been lucky.

Luke.. don't even get me started. I'm out of shape and can't ice skate and I think I'd be less of a defensive liability than Luke. Why hasn't anyone told him to shed some weight and work on speed, agility and endurance? His upper body seems unnecessarily big, like he's top-heavy. His hockey IQ is comparable to a three week old pile of deer ****.

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12-10-2013, 09:51 AM
  #140
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The Schenn brothers blow.

Brayden Schenn seems completely useless. He reminds me of a middle school kid playing hockey with men. He constantly falls, doesn't drive his legs and frustrates the **** out of me. I feel like most of his goals have been lucky.

Luke.. don't even get me started. I'm out of shape and can't ice skate and I think I'd be less of a defensive liability than Luke. Why hasn't anyone told him to shed some weight and work on speed, agility and endurance? His upper body seems unnecessarily big, like he's top-heavy. His hockey IQ is comparable to a three week old pile of deer ****.
With every passing game, I lose more and more faith in Brayden ever becoming anything more than a second/third line tweener. His skill set is good enough to play in the top six, but he has a well below average hockey IQ. He's constantly chasing the play, and because of it, he often looks invisible. The only thing he offers to the second line right now is his shot from the slot which is quite good. Other than that, he's a passenger on that line.

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12-10-2013, 09:52 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
The defense is not effective at stretch passes so the forwards have to come back and receive a shorter pass (all else equal) and the forwards as a group lack speed to carry it through the neutral zone. They rely on dump and chase with forwards that often have trouble winning puck battles along the boards or are too slow to get there.

He is the best in the league, but if you look at Karlsson, he can single handedly take the puck out of his zone with speed, make stretch passes and even carry the puck into the offensive zone on his own and beat people. That makes the job of forwards infinitely easier. I think that is the point some posters are making.
Eric Karlsson is the best puck moving defenseman in the league. There are maybe about twenty guys in the league that can even get close to what he's able to do.

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12-10-2013, 10:15 AM
  #142
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Mark Streit is a turnover machine. Great signing Homer, stuck with this guy for how many more years...

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12-10-2013, 10:19 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
With every passing game, I lose more and more faith in Brayden ever becoming anything more than a second/third line tweener. His skill set is good enough to play in the top six, but he has a well below average hockey IQ. He's constantly chasing the play, and because of it, he often looks invisible. The only thing he offers to the second line right now is his shot from the slot which is quite good. Other than that, he's a passenger on that line.
Exactly, he always seem to be chasing the play. Kid seems dumb as bricks.

God dammit I miss Richie.

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12-10-2013, 10:24 AM
  #144
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Maybe when Lecavalier comes back we should switch Giroux and Lecavalier's wingers.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Hartnell-Lecavalier-Voracek

Those lines seem like would have a better mix of playing styles.

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12-10-2013, 10:35 AM
  #145
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I do not like the idea of Schenn - G - Simmonds.

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12-10-2013, 10:37 AM
  #146
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I do not like the idea of Schenn - G - Simmonds.
I don't know how it could be any worse than hartnell-g-Voracek. At least schenn will actually shoot and Simmonds is better than hartnell or at least as good at this point

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12-10-2013, 10:40 AM
  #147
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I actually think Giroux might do well with Downie and Vinny. Couturier and Voracek have shown chemistry in the past. Don't want to break up the Couturier line now though.

Just throwing spaghetti at the wall:

Downie-Giroux-Vinny
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Hartnell-B.Schenn-Simmonds

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12-10-2013, 11:10 AM
  #148
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I actually think Giroux might do well with Downie and Vinny. Couturier and Voracek have shown chemistry in the past. Don't want to break up the Couturier line now though.

Just throwing spaghetti at the wall:

Downie-Giroux-Vinny
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Hartnell-B.Schenn-Simmonds
I like it. Well, the top 6, anyway. But then again, we can use the name that poster BernieParent coined for the Hartnell/Schenn/Simmonds line, Legion of Dumb.

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12-10-2013, 11:12 AM
  #149
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How did Mr superstar do?.
Playing up to this years contract. Next year is another story

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12-10-2013, 01:43 PM
  #150
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