HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New Jersey Devils
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

General Discussion (Team/Player/Trade Talk/Speculation/News), Part VIII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #1026
DEVILS ALL THE WAY*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
You're absolutely right. I've watched only a handful of Edmonton's games this year. I was left unimpressed. I do rely on what the fans of the team say. It's a resource. And when they're consistent with their criticism of a player it's an important resource, in my opinion. So you can dismiss it like it's no big deal but I'm not prepared to do that.

Again you're ignoring my point. I don't really give a damn who has impressed me more right now. I don't care. I don't trade a 21 year-old former consensus top line D for two forwards struggling right now in one way or another (Yak scoring, Eberle everywhere else). I don't trade him until I know what I have. If it turns out I have a top pairing D and it turns out Yak/Eberle establish themselves as top pairing forwards then I strongly consider the deal.

Why are you so quick to trade Larsson? What is the rush?
So a player that struggles NOW is what he's worth on the market today? Are you saying Larsson hasn't struggled at all this year or his value is now back to what it was prior to us drafting him because he's been playing solid hockey since being paired with Gélinas? Can it be that Gélinas has been the superior player who's basically carrying Larsson?

I want a young up and coming forward ASAP, not in 3 or 4 years but this year and with the emergence of two solid rookies on our blueline in Gélinas and Merrill, we can land that young stud forward with Larsson. Adam hasn't wow'ed anyone yet and the same can be said with Yakupov I guess, so moving two players who might live up to the hype they got elsewhere while balancing our overall roster today and for the future is a move I'd make every day of the week.

I wanted to move Parise if we were able to resign Kovalchuk when we were icing one of the worst bluelines (on paper) I've seen at the NHL level in a long long time. Alot of posters we against such a proposal because Zach was like a familly member to most of our board back then but I didn't care, I just wanted us to ice the best possible team in order to be a better and stronger team moving forward.

I like the New Jersey Devils, not a single player. If moving Brodeur makes us a better team, I wouldn't care one bit. It would suck for a couple of days but the wins would erase everything.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:19 PM
  #1027
DEVILS ALL THE WAY*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
Soft players aren't good to have around playoff time. They tend to disappear. This team is supposed to be about winning IN the playoffs, not regular season success.

Eberle had one nice season.
Zach Parise was solid during the regular season and was MIA during the post season. He even played a "gritty" type of game and we gave him the name of "Casper" during the postseason.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #1028
billingtons ghost
Registered User
 
billingtons ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
St. Louis really disappeared in 03 and 2010. Briere really disappeared in 09. Patrick Kane really disappeared in 09 and last year.

Good players don't disappear in the playoffs.
None of those players you named are soft. They are small, not soft.

BIG Difference.

billingtons ghost is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #1029
GhostofKenKlee
Hynes Ward
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Downtown Trenton
Country: Puerto Rico
Posts: 5,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
You might seem to think both players are on the outs with their franchise... but I'm pretty certain management in Edmonton are perfectly happy with both forwards, since they're both under the age of 24 and their ceilling is sky high.

Why is Larsson a "premium"? What did he do to warrant such praises that a established top line forward or a kid who led his teams in goals scored as a rookie didn't do?

Again, you have Larsson on this scale that weights in our favour for reasons unknown and to me, it sounds like a comment made by someone who relies on a message board of another team to get it's info instead of actually watching the games.

I'm almost certain that if we made a poll of who's impressed you the most so far in their early career between Yakupov and Larsson, despite Yakupov having played less games, the Russian player would come out on top 8 times out of 10.
Your whole argument is based off selling Larrson short and putting the doubt of his true ceiling, but yet build up the Edmonton oilers to this amazing hype to fit your narrative.

GhostofKenKlee is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #1030
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Nova Nation
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PA/NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 45,903
vCash: 500
again, no one wants to give up anything of value to get a good young forward but then I read ALL DAY about how we lack scoring and need good young forwards

if you dont want to give up any of the DMen, then you are stuck with what we have basically. so if you're cool with it, then fine.

Zajacs Bowl Cut is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #1031
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
 
SteveCangialosi123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,209
vCash: 500
Just to be clear I thought Larsson was magnificent with Gelinas before the injury. I wanna know how Eberle is viewed as "struggling" and Larsson isn't. Eberle's production is fine. If he wasn't surrounded by schlubs maybe his softness and d problems wouldn't be as bad.

SteveCangialosi123 is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:24 PM
  #1032
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
 
SteveCangialosi123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
None of those players you named are soft. They are small, not soft.

BIG Difference.
are you kidding? you think eberle is soft but brierre and kane aren't? whaaaaaaat? they are as soft as can be. doesn't mean they aren't useful. put the puck in the net, that's what matters.

SteveCangialosi123 is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #1033
The 29th Pick
BetterThan LastYear
 
The 29th Pick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bergen County N.J.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
again, no one wants to give up anything of value to get a good young forward but then I read ALL DAY about how we lack scoring and need good young forwards

if you dont want to give up any of the DMen, then you are stuck with what we have basically. so if you're cool with it, then fine.
I do....I like this team..the NJ Devils...not just one player
I would trade any D man we have for a solid scorer

The 29th Pick is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #1034
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
again, no one wants to give up anything of value to get a good young forward but then I read ALL DAY about how we lack scoring and need good young forwards

if you dont want to give up any of the DMen, then you are stuck with what we have basically. so if you're cool with it, then fine.
I am willing to listen to any trade offer for an impact forward. Doesn't even have to be particularly young. But I have deep reservations about either Edmonton forward being the guy.

It has to be worth it for us to give up on a kid we know nothing about. We don't know what Larsson will be, that's the risk in moving him.

I would do Larsson for Couture but San Jose understandably wouldn't. Any other forwards you guys think might be available? Because Eberle doesn't do it for me.

ThePSEGPowerPoster is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:26 PM
  #1035
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
 
SteveCangialosi123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
again, no one wants to give up anything of value to get a good young forward but then I read ALL DAY about how we lack scoring and need good young forwards

if you dont want to give up any of the DMen, then you are stuck with what we have basically. so if you're cool with it, then fine.
I do. DATW does. There are others as well. The problem is that they don't think Eberle is good because he's soft and soft players don't do well in the playoffs. That is just false though..

SteveCangialosi123 is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #1036
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
I do. DATW does. There are others as well. The problem is that they don't think Eberle is good because he's soft and soft players don't do well in the playoffs. That is just false though..
He has to provide more than being a one-dimensional offensive forward, who is 30% in the circle, and is reliant on elite finishes for numbers because we don't have those here.

When he put up 72 points he had 46 assists. He has 15 now. How many assists would he get here?

I want to be damn sure I'm getting a complete player, heck something closer to that, the right player for Adam Larsson.

Larsson's value may not be anywhere close to what I think but I'm sure it's not close to what his detractors thing either - somewhere in the middle.

ThePSEGPowerPoster is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #1037
GhostofKenKlee
Hynes Ward
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Downtown Trenton
Country: Puerto Rico
Posts: 5,746
vCash: 500
Is Eberle even available? If not, can I pine over Tavares for Larrson?

GhostofKenKlee is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:33 PM
  #1038
DEVILS ALL THE WAY*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMBoner Stabone View Post
Your whole argument is based off selling Larrson short and putting the doubt of his true ceiling, but yet build up the Edmonton oilers to this amazing hype to fit your narrative.
How am I building up the Oilers

Eberle has the stats to prove he's a top line winger, so Eberle proved everyone that, not me. As for Yakupov, I've repeated the same thing over and over again... HE'S NOT PROVEN, just like Adam Larsson isn't proven either but we seem to hold Larsson several notch higher for reasons I can't seem to figure out.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #1039
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMBoner Stabone View Post
Is Eberle even available? If not, can I pine over Tavares for Larrson?
Eberle is being made available.

I would love Tavares for Larsson. A package around Larsson. That's someone worth risking Larsson for. But it would require a lot more than Larsson.

ThePSEGPowerPoster is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #1040
GhostofKenKlee
Hynes Ward
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Downtown Trenton
Country: Puerto Rico
Posts: 5,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
again, no one wants to give up anything of value to get a good young forward but then I read ALL DAY about how we lack scoring and need good young forwards

if you dont want to give up any of the DMen, then you are stuck with what we have basically. so if you're cool with it, then fine.
I don't have any issues with making the team better, but I do take issue with either of the two oilers for Larrson. The very reasons devils fans want to trade Larrson are the reasons why teams wouldn't want him. Meanwhile, DATW is convinced that LArrson future is an unknown quantity but yet is set in stone about either Eberle/Yakupov.

GhostofKenKlee is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #1041
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
How am I building up the Oilers

Eberle has the stats to prove he's a top line winger, so Eberle proved everyone that, not me. As for Yakupov, I've repeated the same thing over and over again... HE'S NOT PROVEN, just like Adam Larsson isn't proven either but we seem to hold Larsson several notch higher for reasons I can't seem to figure out.
OH ok stats.

ThePSEGPowerPoster is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:36 PM
  #1042
billingtons ghost
Registered User
 
billingtons ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
Just to be clear I thought Larsson was magnificent with Gelinas before the injury. I wanna know how Eberle is viewed as "struggling" and Larsson isn't. Eberle's production is fine. If he wasn't surrounded by schlubs maybe his softness and d problems wouldn't be as bad.
You are bringing him to our team, remember? Maybe he plays with worse schlubs here and goes all Brunner.

billingtons ghost is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:36 PM
  #1043
The 29th Pick
BetterThan LastYear
 
The 29th Pick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bergen County N.J.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMBoner Stabone View Post
Is Eberle even available? If not, can I pine over Tavares for Larrson?
that would be great....I'm sure JT would like to play for a team with a chance.....his Isle's are a sinking ship

The 29th Pick is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #1044
DEVILS ALL THE WAY*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
I am willing to listen to any trade offer for an impact forward. Doesn't even have to be particularly young. But I have deep reservations about either Edmonton forward being the guy.

It has to be worth it for us to give up on a kid we know nothing about. We don't know what Larsson will be, that's the risk in moving him.

I would do Larsson for Couture but San Jose understandably wouldn't. Any other forwards you guys think might be available? Because Eberle doesn't do it for me.
The only trades you would approve is a trade that has us ass ****ing the other team by giving a possible stud for a proven superstar. Just think about it for a second, would you do such a trade if we were the one giving someone like Couture for a kid that hasn't proved ****?

I understand your a fan of the this team but when talking trades, you have to be level headed in favour of both parties, not just your own team.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #1045
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
 
SteveCangialosi123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Eberle is being made available.

I would love Tavares for Larsson. A package around Larsson. That's someone worth risking Larsson for. But it would require a lot more than Larsson.
But that would never happen because Larsson hasn't done enough for the Isles to even consider. Can you describe what kind of player you see Larsson becoming and why you feel that will happen? Because I just wanna see where you're coming from.

SteveCangialosi123 is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:41 PM
  #1046
DEVILS ALL THE WAY*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,477
vCash: 500
Honestly, why would the Isles move Tavares, who's signed to a LTC for a kid who's having a hard time cracking our lineup when everyone is healthy.

Seriously people, stop smocking the pipe and let's be realistic here for a second. If we had Tavares, would we move him for something like Doug Hamilton+?

WTF

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:42 PM
  #1047
AfroThunder396
Lou's Secret Sauce
 
AfroThunder396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 26,067
vCash: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
You might seem to think both players are on the outs with their franchise... but I'm pretty certain management in Edmonton are perfectly happy with both forwards, since they're both under the age of 24 and their ceilling is sky high.

Why is Larsson a "premium"? What did he do to warrant such praises that a established top line forward or a kid who led his teams in goals scored as a rookie didn't do?

Again, you have Larsson on this scale that weights in our favour for reasons unknown and to me, it sounds like a comment made by someone who relies on a message board of another team to get it's info instead of actually watching the games.

I'm almost certain that if we made a poll of who's impressed you the most so far in their early career between Yakupov and Larsson, despite Yakupov having played less games, the Russian player would come out on top 8 times out of 10.
1.) Defensemen are more valuable than forwards by default.

2.) Forwards peak in their early 20's, defensemen don't peak until their late 20's/early 30's (Eberle will likely never top 76 points again, he was shooting at 19% that year).

3.) Compared to defensemen his age, Adam Larsson is light years ahead of his peers in areas like positioning, outlet passing, gap control, lane disruption, anticipation, poise and calmness.

He certainly has deficiencies in his game but the areas listed above are generally some of the last skills defensemen learn and he has mastery over them at a remarkably young age. He's already learned all the hard stuff there is for a defenseman to learn and is beyond his years defensively.

4.) Eberle and Yakupov are one dimensional and have only shown to produce in specific scenarios where they receive sheltered minutes, they're unlikely to fit on this Devils team as it's currently constructed. Larsson has evolved his game the past few years and has shown he can play nearly any role asked of him.

5.) Experienced defensemen on ELC's/RFA age almost NEVER come on the market unless there's something wrong with them. When they do hit the market they're extraordinarily hot commodities.

6.) Larsson has SHOWN he wants to play here. He took less money on his ELC and forfeited bonuses because he wanted to play on the roster immediately. He's sat through the scratches. He's played ugly PK minutes. He's gotten himself hurt trying to make the plays he was told to make. He's changed his game so that he could be a New Jersey Devils defensemen, and he's done it with the kind of attitude I want players on my team to have.

And now that he's finally starting to blossom into fine young defenseman, you want to trade him for a guy who refuses to play defense, expects to be handed top-6 shifts without having to earn them, tries to go coast to coast every game, shows a sour attitude when things don't go his way, and just generally hates structured hockey? Or a guy that spends his unlimited PP minutes playing soft pond hockey while his elite linemates do the heavy lifting, feeding him flawless passes every time?

AfroThunder396 is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:42 PM
  #1048
GhostofKenKlee
Hynes Ward
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Downtown Trenton
Country: Puerto Rico
Posts: 5,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
How am I building up the Oilers

Eberle has the stats to prove he's a top line winger, so Eberle proved everyone that, not me. As for Yakupov, I've repeated the same thing over and over again... HE'S NOT PROVEN, just like Adam Larsson isn't proven either but we seem to hold Larsson several notch higher for reasons I can't seem to figure out.
Larrson is what he is, a young 21 year old which arguably take longer to develop.

They play two positions and what I know about Yakupov is like they are several other young oiler forwards playing on some bad teams. I don't watch a lot of the oilers games, but on the depth chart he's third Rw blocked by Hemsky and Eberle.

It's all a moot point, Larrson is hurt and he's going nowhere.

Also, the reason why Tavares was brought up is because of your fantasy of young offensive talent. All I asked is if either players was available and if not can I pine for Tavares for Larrson? Reading is Fundamental.


Again, you will see a trade coming at some point but I doubt you will see the type of trade you are talking about.

GhostofKenKlee is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:45 PM
  #1049
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Nova Nation
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PA/NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 45,903
vCash: 500
I agree with those that dont want Yak. but Eberle I would take in an instant.

been clamoring for him since the summer.

Zajacs Bowl Cut is offline  
Old
12-10-2013, 12:46 PM
  #1050
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
 
ThePSEGPowerPoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
The only trades you would approve is a trade that has us ass ****ing the other team by giving a possible stud for a proven superstar. Just think about it for a second, would you do such a trade if we were the one giving someone like Couture for a kid that hasn't proved ****?

I understand your a fan of the this team but when talking trades, you have to be level headed in favour of both parties, not just your own team.
Oh I am level headed. I concede all the trades I would accept for Larsson are ostensibly overwhelming in our favor. But those are the deals you trade Larsson in. Because the reason I say ostensibly is because you don't know what Larsson is going to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
But that would never happen because Larsson hasn't done enough for the Isles to even consider. Can you describe what kind of player you see Larsson becoming and why you feel that will happen? Because I just wanna see where you're coming from.
Then you don't make any trades for Larsson. The end. Until he gives you a better idea of what he is.

And I don't know what kind of player Larsson will be. Which is why I don't trade him until I figure it out.

ThePSEGPowerPoster is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.