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Old
12-10-2013, 12:06 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post



Okay.
What has Gus done to suggest otherwise? The second coming for this club isn't sitting in the press box.

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Old
12-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
But one of them has a 1M price tag and has the potential to get better since he is only 24 years old
I agree with the price tag, but how much better is Gus really going to get? I just said that he could probably hang in there on the second pair, but we would see just about the same level of play as Streit gives them.

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12-10-2013, 12:14 PM
  #78
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Gus should consistently take Mez's roster spot next year. He should be playing to prepare for that.

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12-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #79
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That's a tad harsh, no? Streit is what he is; a number four defenseman. If you were expecting him to come in and replace Timonen, you were expecting too much. Streit has always been a bit of a liability in his own zone. His offensive numbers would look a lot better if the forwards weren't an absolute cluster-**** this season.
i expect him to contribute offensively without making a bad play that lead to a goal everytime and a top 4 Dman should at least know how to play some Defense.

Steir is nothing more than a #5Dman who can put points

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Old
12-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
What has Gus done to suggest otherwise? The second coming for this club isn't sitting in the press box.
Be careful, my friend. You are treading some dangerous waters when you bad mouth Gus. Despite having played less than a full season worth of at best decent to slightly better than decent games spread out over four seasons, many believe his value, talents, and abilities are worthy of top four minutes.

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12-10-2013, 12:19 PM
  #81
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I think he would have done better than Streit did last night.

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12-10-2013, 12:21 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Be careful, my friend. You are treading some dangerous waters when you bad mouth Gus. Despite having played less than a full season worth of at best decent to slightly better than decent games spread out over four seasons, many believe his value, talents, and abilities are worthy of top four minutes.
Other, more reasonable opinions are that Gustafsson has shown sufficient promise to warrant a more extended look at the NHL level, rather than being shuffled around in favour of underperforming cap anvils. It's a classic model of cost effectiveness.

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Old
12-10-2013, 12:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Gus should consistently take Mez's roster spot next year. He should be playing to prepare for that.
And I think he will. But again, that's just a bottom pairing role.

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Originally Posted by Flyerss View Post
i expect him to contribute offensively without making a bad play that lead to a goal everytime and a top 4 Dman should at least know how to play some Defense.

Steir is nothing more than a #5Dman who can put points
Last night was not the entire season. He's been pressing the play to try and get some offense going. With that he's going to have some turnovers. He would be putting up points if the forwards weren't all a collective dumpster fire, outside of Couturier and Giroux.

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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Be careful, my friend. You are treading some dangerous waters when you bad mouth Gus. Despite having played less than a full season worth of at best decent to slightly better than decent games spread out over four seasons, many believe his value, talents, and abilities are worthy of top four minutes.
He better start doing more when he's in the lineup if he wants to warrant that kind of praise. I don't even get the hype. He's a 24 year old undrafted college free agent that has struggled for two seasons just to stay in the NHL. Sure he could get better, but how much better can he really get? His skill set is pretty limited, and he doesn't have one thing that he does above average.

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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I think he would have done better than Streit did last night.
Last night, sure. Over the course of 82 games? Probably not. That's where Gus is at right now.

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Old
12-10-2013, 12:29 PM
  #84
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He's alright. Nowhere near as bad as some people make it seem.

If he cut out the boneheaded turnovers at times, especially right inside the blue line, he would be great
Truth. The turnovers at the O blueline and the stupid little dekes need to stop. Other than that, he's performing as advertised.

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12-10-2013, 12:48 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Be careful, my friend. You are treading some dangerous waters when you bad mouth Gus. Despite having played less than a full season worth of at best decent to slightly better than decent games spread out over four seasons, many believe his value, talents, and abilities are worthy of top four minutes.
So, people argue he should take Mez's spot (By every indication he should, he's outperformed him this year...again), and you twist that into us saying he's a surefire top 4 guy?

Don't make crap up.

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12-10-2013, 01:03 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So, people argue he should take Mez's spot (By every indication he should, he's outperformed him this year...again), and you twist that into us saying he's a surefire top 4 guy?

Don't make crap up.
Lol, don't make stuff up? Go look at the Mez related thread from the offseason and see everyone (I believe yourself included, but I could be wrong on that) saying that Gus is a top four defender.

EDIT: Here's some quotes from you on the subject matter (and at least one other that I found from just a quick search without digging too deep). Perhaps you never said the phrase "Gus is a top 4 defender" (though I am confident that I could look back and find that), but these quotes seem to indicate your feelings on Gus being a top 4 defender...unless saying he is a top 4 defender who plays competently in the top 4 role means something other than you think Gus is a top 4 defender...

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Mediocre? Gus has outperformed one of our top 4 defenders. That kinda puts him in the top 4.
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
In the eyeball test Gus has been better than Mez. In the stats Gus has been better than Mez. He has played competently in the top 4. He's younger with more room for growth and his cap hit is smaller.
Sorry to throw you under the bus Jtown, but I remembered seeing this the other day so I went back and quoted it...

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If he could stay healthy for a year he would be a top4 dman


Last edited by DrinkFightFlyers: 12-10-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old
12-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #87
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No. People were saying he has the potential to turn into that. There's a huge difference between "could be" and "is." How many people were actually arguing he's better than Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, or Schenn? Much less Streit? Nobody. We were arguing that he's better than Mez...because he is. And that he should have Mez's spot, because he should.

Unfortunately for him this organization has no idea how to deal with Dmen who aren't already developed or are washed up vets. I can't wait to see how they bungle Hagg and Morin.

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12-10-2013, 01:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No. People were saying he has the potential to turn into that. There's a huge difference between "could be" and "is." How many people were actually arguing he's better than Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, or Schenn? Much less Streit? Nobody. We were arguing that he's better than Mez...because he is. And that he should have Mez's spot, because he should.

Unfortunately for him this organization has no idea how to deal with Dmen who aren't already developed or are washed up vets. I can't wait to see how they bungle Hagg and Morin.
Ok, so wait. You are telling me when you said that he is a top four defender and that he has played competently in a top 4 role, what you were really saying was only that he is better than Mez, not that he was a top four defender that has played competently in a top 4 role?

Ok, that's kind of like all those times I said Michael Leighton was a competent NHL goalie, what I really meant was he was playing in the NHL so he was an NHL goalie, not that I actually thought he was good enough to play in the NHL. Phew, that takes care of that.

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12-10-2013, 01:28 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ok, so wait. You are telling me when you said that he is a top four defender and that he has played competently in a top 4 role, what you were really saying was only that he is better than Mez, not that he was a top four defender that has played competently in a top 4 role?

Ok, that's kind of like all those times I said Michael Leighton was a competent NHL goalie, what I really meant was he was playing in the NHL so he was an NHL goalie, not that I actually thought he was good enough to play in the NHL. Phew, that takes care of that.
You're taking a quote from after the end of the season, when the defense was depleted and he WAS a top 4 guy (a perfectly competent on at that), and he had just followed it up with a beastly international performance.

What's wrong with these quotes? He was pulling a stint in the top 4 and succeeding (Unlike Leighton, who was playing in a starting role and clearly struggling before failing). Now he's getting jerked around here.

With a healthy defense it was pretty clear he's likely in the 5/6 role, barring the Coburn/Grossmann pairing of the time needing to be mixed up with a puck mover, which was entirely possible.

It's still possible he can perform in the top 4. But with the way the other defenseman are performing and healthy, it's not going to be likely. With the way he gets benched for no reason at all, it's also unlikely. In the past he has improved overall with more games played.


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Old
12-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You're taking a quote from after the end of the season, when the defense was depleted and he WAS a top 4 guy (a perfectly competent on at that), and he had just followed it up with a beastly international performance.

What's wrong with these quotes? He was pulling a stint in the top 4 and succeeding (Unlike Leighton, who was playing in a starting role and clearly struggling before failing). Now he's getting jerked around here.

With a healthy defense it was pretty clear he's likely in the 5/6 role, barring the Coburn/Grossmann pairing of the time needing to be mixed up with a puck mover, which was entirely possible.

It's still possible he can perform in the top 4. But with the way the other defenseman are performing and healthy, it's not going to be likely. With the way he gets benched for no reason at all, it's also unlikely. In the past he has improved overall with more games played.
So let me make sure I understand what you are saying. He was playing in the top 4. And he was playing competently. But you don't think he is a top four defender? Your position is that Gus is NOT a top four defender, even though in your opinion he has already shown he can play competently in a top four role. But someday he MIGHT be a top 4 defender, even though in your opinion he has already played a top 4 role and done so competently. That is what you are saying. Correct?

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Old
12-10-2013, 02:22 PM
  #91
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If Gus is playing better than Mezzaros, better than Streit , then he should play.
It does not matter who the player is if his skills are diminished, he needs to accept a lesser role on the team.

I do not care if the Flyers sit 24 million in salary and all rookies play on defense.
The players which give the team the best chance of winning should be out on the ice,
no matter the size of their contracts.

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12-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
If Gus is playing better than Mezzaros, better than Streit , then he should play.
It does not matter who the player is if his skills are diminished, he needs to accept a lesser role on the team.

I do not care if the Flyers sit 24 million in salary and all rookies play on defense.
The players which give the team the best chance of winning should be out on the ice,
no matter the size of their contracts.
agreed.

Streit>Gus

People seem to overlook Gus's defensive gaffs (and there are more per shift than with streit)

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12-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #93
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rather have markov for 6.5m than Streit

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Old
12-10-2013, 05:31 PM
  #94
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i can't believe this piece of **** will be here for the next 4years with a NMC
actually, he doesn't have a NMC

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12-10-2013, 05:50 PM
  #95
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actually, he doesn't have a NMC




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Old
12-10-2013, 07:42 PM
  #96
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I dunno, im over him. I feel like saying Streit is done but every time i think that, i remember he's not thaaaaaaat bad. The turnovers have got to stop.

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Old
12-10-2013, 08:01 PM
  #97
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Streit wasn't good last night, but the puck was bouncing unbelievably. He's been ok, but I'm not seeing much creativity when it comes to getting shots past potential blockers. I cringed every time they threw the puck back to him last night.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:21 PM
  #98
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agreed.

Streit>Gus

People seem to overlook Gus's defensive gaffs (and there are more per shift than with streit)
Do people here not recognize a semi-competent defenseman when they see one? Is there some kind of disconnect between reality and perception, or has it actually been that long since Pronger last played hockey?

I have to ask because nobody with a clue would have named Meszaros this team's best defenseman (EVER), and nobody with a clue would have considered Grossmann a candidate for this team's best defenseman (EVER). And yet, despite having such passionate and educated fans, these things happened.

Here are the numbers. If you want to bury your head in the sand, and pretend playing overpaid depth-defensemen on the decline is a winning strategy by all means -- keep on keeping on. But, I'll tell you this much: the Red Wings didn't develop Kronwall, Ericsson, and Kindl by having them ride pine after every bloody mistake.

Gustafsson
15.53 ESTOI/60
45.1 OFFZONESTART%
53.1 OFFZONEFINISH%
2.32 GFON/60
1.80 GAON/60

Streit
15.99 ESTOI/60
55.4 OFFZONESTART%
52.4 OFFZONEFINISH%
1.75 GFON/60
2.38 GAON/60

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:33 AM
  #99
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Mark Streit: 1 GOAL

Nuff said....

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:51 AM
  #100
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I didn't read much in this thread because honestly no matter what facts are presented some people don't listen. I (along with quoting work from Bill M) showed that Mez is a horrendous top 4 defender and an average (in the past) 5-6. He is severely overpaid also.

Gus has statistically out performed many of our defenders yet since he is "undrafted" or not a vet he sucks. Gotta love these forums sometimes.

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