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Has the emergence of Eric Gelinas and Jon Merrill in NJ made Larsson expendable ?

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Old
12-10-2013, 02:21 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by KaossKing View Post
name me any recent Cup winner who had the equivalent of prime Brodeur, Stevens, Nieds and Dano while also having no offense
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Originally Posted by Jamie1987 View Post
have you seen our offense?
So draft and develop, or sign some offense-oriented forwards. Did Henrique get acquired by New Jersey via trade where you sent a top young defenseman back?

Did you trade Stevens, Niedermayer, Daneyko or any other everyday defenseman to acquire guys like Zelepukin, Elias and others? New Jersey built its team on defense. They never worried about scoring a ton.

The Kings have scoring problems all of the time but they don't have problems winning playoff games. Boston is similar too. And in Chicago, maybe Kane is a PPG player, that's about it.

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12-10-2013, 09:31 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
So draft and develop, or sign some offense-oriented forwards. Did Henrique get acquired by New Jersey via trade where you sent a top young defenseman back?

Did you trade Stevens, Niedermayer, Daneyko or any other everyday defenseman to acquire guys like Zelepukin, Elias and others? New Jersey built its team on defense. They never worried about scoring a ton.

The Kings have scoring problems all of the time but they don't have problems winning playoff games. Boston is similar too. And in Chicago, maybe Kane is a PPG player, that's about it.
Maybe the Kings and the other teams you mentionned don't score a ton but they all have one thing we don't... actual talent at the forward position.

I don't care if we keep the score low when you actually have talent on your roster cause there's always a shot at coming back but we keep the score low cause we just can't score. Look at our roster and try and convince me that it's a cast of 12 you'd like to have on your team.

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12-10-2013, 11:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
So draft and develop, or sign some offense-oriented forwards. Did Henrique get acquired by New Jersey via trade where you sent a top young defenseman back?

Did you trade Stevens, Niedermayer, Daneyko or any other everyday defenseman to acquire guys like Zelepukin, Elias and others? New Jersey built its team on defense. They never worried about scoring a ton.

The Kings have scoring problems all of the time but they don't have problems winning playoff games. Boston is similar too. And in Chicago, maybe Kane is a PPG player, that's about it.
I wish it were that easy

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12-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Who trades 21 year old franchise Dman with NHL experience who has had success for anything less than an overpay?
Yakupov is a franchise forward. We need a legit star forward so I would do that trade because of positional needs. Their value is fairly close. Our top 3 RW are Jagr, Ryder and Brunner. The only good one is 41...

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12-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #105
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Please quote me where I used the word bust? I said disappointment, and yes I would say Hedman and Larsson have both been disappointments considering where they were drafted. I would expect more of a player drafted in the top 5 to become more than a shutdown dman without a doubt. Make any argument you want, but Hamilton has clearly shown more, and Brodin, well he's just been spectacular and he looks like he's following a path of OEL. If Larsson ends up being just an elite shutdown dman, that is a disappointment no matter which way you try and justify it.
You seriously think becoming an elite shut down defenseman is a disappointment? What in the ****? Guess Darien Hatcher, Scott Stevens, Rob Neidermeyer were all great disappointments.

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12-10-2013, 12:24 PM
  #106
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Who trades 21 year old franchise Dman with NHL experience who has had success for anything less than an overpay?
Larsson has the possibility of becoming a franchise d-man, something he isn't today. What type of success did Adam have with us outside of cracking our roster at the age of 18?

Nail Yakupov isn't a star player either ATM but he has the same type of upside as Larsson and when speaking of success, one would say that leading your team in goals scored as a rookie is a bigger issue then what Adam gave us in his 3 years in NJ. Granted, a d-man will take more time to prove his real value but let's not act like Adam has shown flashes of brilliance and that Yakupov is just this "headcase" who doesn't want to play like Colton Orr or Cam Janssen.

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12-10-2013, 12:26 PM
  #107
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Yakupov is a franchise forward. We need a legit star forward so I would do that trade because of positional needs. Their value is fairly close. Our top 3 RW are Jagr, Ryder and Brunner. The only good one is 41...
I agree, but i think NJ would have to add, because i value Yakupov more.

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12-10-2013, 12:29 PM
  #108
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I agree, but i think NJ would have to add, because i value Yakupov more.
NJ would not have to add.

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12-10-2013, 12:30 PM
  #109
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Eberle is a much more fair price for Larsson then Yakupov. Eberle and Larsson are both effective players in their role, and are closer in age and have high potential.

Eberle is also an immediate solution to some of our scoring needs, especially when you consider that Jagr is probably gone and that leaves Steve freakin Bernier or Brunner as our best RW.

Yakupov needs work and frankly is too big of a question mark for the Devils to give up Larsson for.
As an oiler fan please note that Yak > Eberle

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12-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #110
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I agree, but i think NJ would have to add, because i value Yakupov more.
Although many will disagree, i also believe Yak > Larsson and NJ would have to add...nothing huge maybe a 3rd liner or something like that

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12-10-2013, 12:51 PM
  #111
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As an oiler fan please note that Yak > Eberle
I'm not sure about that. Right now? Yakupov is really trending downward this year. Only time will tell if this is just a sophomore slump, or some really bad scouting league wide as he was the consensus #1.

If you were to ask this before the season, sure Yakupov had a lot more value than Eberle, as he was trending to be one of the best 1st OV picks in years. But with every game this year it's getting harder and harder to justify saying his value is up there with other 1OV's.

But in the context of this thread, IMO:
Yakupov = Larsson
Eberle >>> Larsson

I don't know how you can say Larsson > Yakupov in terms of value? Because Yakupov has had a bad 30 games and isn't gelling with his new coach? Larsson has had a mediocre 122 games when you look at him with 4th OA standards. Yakupov is still matching Stamkos' pace with regards to his first 82 games, he might not keep up for long if he keeps playing like he is, but 30 bad games does not destroy a players value completely as some Devils fans are eluding to.

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12-10-2013, 12:52 PM
  #112
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it's good to have lots of good young dmen

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12-10-2013, 12:55 PM
  #113
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I think a fair amount of the apprehensiveness regarding Yakupov around here is a direct response to the supposed over-hyping of the Oilers young forwards over the past few years. People smell blood and now they want the player to fail to teach you all a lesson.


Yes, I believe people are that petty.

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12-10-2013, 01:14 PM
  #114
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Quote:
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it's good to have lots of good young dmen

I agree, but when you have a plethora of D and not many forwards in the system, you need to trade from strength to acquire for your weaknesses

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12-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #115
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I would trade Lupul + Franson for him, but considering NJ is in a rebuild it doesn't make sense for them...

Rielly - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Larsson

future top 4 *drools*

Anything from T.O. that would interest NJ fans? He's exactly what we need... a DFD/TWD top 4 dman with upside (yeah, I understand he's exactly what most teams need... just saying).

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12-10-2013, 02:20 PM
  #116
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The conversation revolves around Kadri. Or JVR. NJ has no reason to trade Larsson. D men develop late. To trade Larsson now for what's perceived to be "fair value" is foolish.

It will rightfully require an overpay.

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12-10-2013, 02:25 PM
  #117
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I'm not sure about that. Right now? Yakupov is really trending downward this year. Only time will tell if this is just a sophomore slump, or some really bad scouting league wide as he was the consensus #1.

If you were to ask this before the season, sure Yakupov had a lot more value than Eberle, as he was trending to be one of the best 1st OV picks in years. But with every game this year it's getting harder and harder to justify saying his value is up there with other 1OV's.

But in the context of this thread, IMO:
Yakupov = Larsson
Eberle >>> Larsson

I don't know how you can say Larsson > Yakupov in terms of value? Because Yakupov has had a bad 30 games and isn't gelling with his new coach? Larsson has had a mediocre 122 games when you look at him with 4th OA standards. Yakupov is still matching Stamkos' pace with regards to his first 82 games, he might not keep up for long if he keeps playing like he is, but 30 bad games does not destroy a players value completely as some Devils fans are eluding to.
Yes! overall value i would much rather have Yakupov over Eberle. For one Yakupov has more sandpaper to him then Eberle, Yakupov doesn't have the pressure to live up to a HUGE contract like Eberle does.

Yes....eberle has more points than yak, but eberle (without looking at actual stats) plays ~5 more mins a game then yak, gets 1st pp minutes and also doens't have to play with smyth or hemsky black holes.

I for the life of me cannot understand why Yakupov is singled out as much as he is. I think Yakupov is our most "talented" young-star while also being the youngest and most driven to succeed. Don't get me wrong i love Eberle but to me he's a one trick pony with good hands and high end finishing ability and not much else. It's no surprise he's been called out by much of edmonton media (along with gagner) to get the eakins RESET (1 game scratch ala Petry)

I can't argue that eberle is further advanced in his defensive game but really how good is it? it's like picking the best car from a junkyard...our whole team has no defensive game. Eberle also has (in my eyes) infinitely more turnovers than Yak. Yak just tries to do too much. If yak played with nuge and hall everygame, or got as many free passes for mistakes as ebs, i would be willing to bet he gets just as many points as ebs EASILY.

p.s. if other teams believe Ebs is worth more, then all the better as we keep the better player (long run) while getting a bigger return!

and back onto topic: I would absolutely not trade Yak for Larson


Last edited by bestmyfeeling: 12-10-2013 at 03:19 PM. Reason: back on topic
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Old
12-10-2013, 02:55 PM
  #118
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I would trade Lupul + Franson for him, but considering NJ is in a rebuild it doesn't make sense for them...

Rielly - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Larsson

future top 4 *drools*

Anything from T.O. that would interest NJ fans? He's exactly what we need... a DFD/TWD top 4 dman with upside (yeah, I understand he's exactly what most teams need... just saying).
NJ is in a rebuild? What makes you say that?

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12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #119
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NJ is in a rebuild? What makes you say that?
Assumed they were too but if not...

Gardiner is LD, but we need RD and Gardiner's really been coming on lately.

What would it take to bridge the gap? I know everyone is going to say Adam's a 2nd overall pick but he hasn't been playing much for NJ even when healthy.

I assume forwards...just not sure what the heck to add on this end to make the deal go through....Lupul+Gardiner seems like a lot for someone who isn't proven...it's about all about potential though.

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Old
12-10-2013, 03:42 PM
  #120
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Lou doesnt know the world Rebuild , and thats good, we should go for it , every year

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12-10-2013, 04:03 PM
  #121
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Lou doesnt know the world Rebuild , and thats good, we should go for it , every year
If you honestly think Lou put this team together thinking he was going to "go for it", I have some seafront property in Calgary to sell you.

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12-10-2013, 04:23 PM
  #122
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If you honestly think Lou put this team together thinking he was going to "go for it", I have some seafront property in Calgary to sell you.
Of course he did...he did what he could with the circumstances put forth. Not all teams just roll over and give up before the season starts just to get a high pick, which we don't even have the option to do. Even the year we got Larsson we were the worst team by far in the first half then started winning a lot and ended up at the 8th pick position, only to win the draft lottery. This organization doesn't accept losing.

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12-10-2013, 04:28 PM
  #123
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If you honestly think Lou put this team together thinking he was going to "go for it", I have some seafront property in Calgary to sell you.
Lou goes for it every year. You don't sign Jagr and Ryder along with Brunner to not go for it.

He's trying to field a team that can win in the playoffs.

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12-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #124
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We dont accept losing here, sorry

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12-10-2013, 04:40 PM
  #125
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I really would like to make a move for Brett Connolly. Perfect buy low option on a big shooting center.

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