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Old
12-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
No but Larrson has never put up offensive numbers. Not in the Swedish league, and he certainly hasn't shown any offensive production in the NHL to quiet those worries. McDonagh has a 32 p season in his young career, Larsson hasn't hit 20 yet.
Ok, i get it. But i still can't figure out how, with the way Yak is playing, you think you will land a bonified young #1D. Yak hasn't shown he is a bonified top 6 winger yet.

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12-10-2013, 02:48 PM
  #102
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Ok, i get it. But i still can't figure out how, with the way Yak is playing, you think you will land a bonified young #1D. Yak hasn't shown he is a bonified top 6 winger yet.
Don't even think he's done enough to land a guy like Larsson who hasn't shown any glaring, red flag concerns like Yak has. Larsson does what he's told. He doesn't make demands.

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12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #103
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Ok, i get it. But i still can't figure out how, with the way Yak is playing, you think you will land a bonified young #1D. Yak hasn't shown he is a bonified top 6 winger yet.
yes he has actually....17G 14A for 31 pts in his rookie year. His 17 goals were tied for top 30 in the entire league, so yah i'd say that's top 6 winger.

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12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #104
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Yakupov has outright said he doesn't like to skate, doesn't like to forecheck, doesn't like to play defense. Russian scouts are saying he plays no defense and won't make it in the NHL as a one-dimensional player who doesn't utilize his teammates. Yet he's worth Adam Larsson to the NJ Devils?

The Devils demand skating, demand forechecking, demand defense from every player that takes the ice. They demanded it from Kovalchuk who has 10 times the resume Yak has.

The idea that Yak is worth Larsson is reactionary lunacy (from Devils fans) because we can't score consistently. With a level-head though, I feel like my fellow Devils fans wouldn't pull off the trade. We are all prone to that lunacy and heck I think I've been swayed to the Yak boat with my fair share of reactionary lunacy from time to time but certainly not for Larsson.

The Devils would never pay the price of Adam Larsson (nevermind +) for that kind of player. D-Men develop much later and Yak comes with far more glaring concerns as a player and a person than Adam Larsson.
so much fail....

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12-10-2013, 03:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Yakupov has outright said he doesn't like to skate, doesn't like to forecheck, doesn't like to play defense. Russian scouts are saying he plays no defense and won't make it in the NHL as a one-dimensional player who doesn't utilize his teammates. Yet he's worth Adam Larsson to the NJ Devils?

The Devils demand skating, demand forechecking, demand defense from every player that takes the ice. They demanded it from Kovalchuk who has 10 times the resume Yak has.

The idea that Yak is worth Larsson is reactionary lunacy (from Devils fans) because we can't score consistently. With a level-head though, I feel like my fellow Devils fans wouldn't pull off the trade. We are all prone to that lunacy and heck I think I've been swayed to the Yak boat with my fair share of reactionary lunacy from time to time but certainly not for Larsson.

The Devils would never pay the price of Adam Larsson (nevermind +) for that kind of player. D-Men develop much later and Yak comes with far more glaring concerns as a player and a person than Adam Larsson.
Source your ridiculous claims or nobody with any kind of common sense will believe you.

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12-10-2013, 03:22 PM
  #106
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Jesus. Testy. Relax.

After being a healthy scratch for consecutive games earlier in the week, Yakupov was put on blast by Russian Olympic scout Igor Kravchuk, currently analyzing NHLers in preparation for the 2014 Winter Games in Sochi.

“He has to make up his mind, if he’s not going to change his game, then he has no future (in the NHL),” Kravchuk told TSN 1200 Radio Ottawa. “From what I see, his team game is really, really poor. He tries to do a lot of things by himself, he has absolutely no defense.

“That’s what really concerns us as scouts.”

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...has-no-future/

And I'm sure everyone is familiar with his infamous quote about not wanting to skate or forecheck all the time. I'm mobile or i would find it.

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12-10-2013, 03:25 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ok, i get it. But i still can't figure out how, with the way Yak is playing, you think you will land a bonified young #1D. Yak hasn't shown he is a bonified top 6 winger yet.
I don't think he'd bring back a young top D right now. But I also don't think he's peaked as a player. This season is going nowhere for the Oilers so they may as well wait a season or two and then dangle Yakupov or another winger to get that top pairing D if the situation still needs addressing.

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12-10-2013, 03:26 PM
  #108
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yes he has actually....17G 14A for 31 pts in his rookie year. His 17 goals were tied for top 30 in the entire league, so yah i'd say that's top 6 winger.
Great, and what does his 9 points in 29 games and his -19 this season tell you?

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12-10-2013, 03:28 PM
  #109
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I don't think he'd bring back a young top D right now. But I also don't think he's peaked as a player. This season is going nowhere for the Oilers so they may as well wait a season or two and then dangle Yakupov or another winger to get that top pairing D if the situation still needs addressing.
On this i will agree, however, whether now or later if the situation arises that the Oilers can upgrade their D (significantly) i think they have to do it.

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12-10-2013, 03:37 PM
  #110
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Yakupov certainly has not peaked. But the conversation is about his value now. You're going to get a lot of lowball offers here because he's close to rock bottom. Not performing, perception of an attitude issue, his own country's Olympic scout (see above) saying e won't make it in the nhl if he doesn't change his game...

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12-10-2013, 03:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Great, and what does his 9 points in 29 games and his -19 this season tell you?
shows he's in a slump and is being badly misused by the coach? now show me one player aside from perhaps crosby who had a smooth development with no hiccups in his career

you ask the forum to prove yak is a top 6 winger and i fed it to you....

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12-10-2013, 03:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Great, and what does his 9 points in 29 games and his -19 this season tell you?
That he's struggling in his 2nd season, as many young players have before him.

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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
On this i will agree, however, whether now or later if the situation arises that the Oilers can upgrade their D (significantly) i think they have to do it.
Perhaps. A lot will depend on what kinds of trades or signings happen in the next year or two. It also depends on how Nurse develops. He's certainly looking very promising in the OHL this year.

But I do agree that if the Oilers can't solve their defensive issues through those means, they will likely have to offer up one of their wingers for help on the back end.

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12-10-2013, 03:48 PM
  #113
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Yakupov's stock is low because he is underperforming. His potential isn't any lower than it was before, he still has the ability to be a 40 goal scorer. There's clearly risk though in that he hasn't shown consistency at the NHL level yet (not uncommon for a young player). For these reasons you won't see Yakupov get traded. Too much risk for a team trading for Yakupov to offer what he's worth. People want to buy low on Yakupov but the Oilers aren't gonna sell low, why would they?

Offering quantity for quality isn't going to interest the Oilers. Their needs are top-pairing defensemen, a no.2 center with size and two-way ability, and a top 6 power forward. The way you get those players in a trade is by trading quality for quality, which is why Yakupov will not be traded for a grab bag of another team's spare parts.

Yakupov's value is a high quality player on your team that your team doesn't want to give up. Not worth it you say? Good. The Oilers don't want to trade Yakupov so it's not gonna happen anyways. So why do some Oilers fans want to trade him you say? There is a disproportionate amount of emotional, impatient fans with poor judgement on the Oilers board because of the team's seven (soon to be eight) year vacation from the playoffs.

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12-10-2013, 03:49 PM
  #114
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Yakupov certainly has not peaked. But the conversation is about his value now. You're going to get a lot of lowball offers here because he's close to rock bottom. Not performing, perception of an attitude issue, his own country's Olympic scout (see above) saying e won't make it in the nhl if he doesn't change his game...
You can't talk about his value now without looking at what his peak is. GM's won't just look at his struggles for a third of the season and say he's a plug. He had a great rookie year and was a number one pick. All this talk about Daigle who never really performed at the NHL level is a red herring. GM's are paid to evaluate talent and will look at what they think the player could achieve and not simply look at what they are doing at the moment.

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12-10-2013, 03:53 PM
  #115
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You should probably not be picking quotes that were taken out of context for your arguments. The entire statement he made was (paraphrasing) that he doesn't like playing like a grinder, in a third line role with no offensive ice time. Do you have a link to any of these "Russian Scouts" who claim he won't make it? Yakupov skates hard, forechecks, hits a lot actually, and is, by all accounts, working on his defensive game. New Jersey has no offensive young players aside from Henrique, and a gluttony of good young defensemen, albeit ones with less upside than Larsson. You use Kovalchuk as an example, but I'm sure you realize he played around 30 minutes a game for them, so his play wasn't a concern for them. You claiming that Yakupov has any concerns whatsoever as a person shows that you really know very little about him, and have latched onto the HF conjecture, that is quite frankly, wrong in almost every way. Is he struggling to find his defensive game? Sure, but you need to remember that all through junior, he has never been asked to play a 2 way game. He's learning, it will come with time.

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Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Yakupov has outright said he doesn't like to skate, doesn't like to forecheck, doesn't like to play defense. Russian scouts are saying he plays no defense and won't make it in the NHL as a one-dimensional player who doesn't utilize his teammates. Yet he's worth Adam Larsson to the NJ Devils?

The Devils demand skating, demand forechecking, demand defense from every player that takes the ice. They demanded it from Kovalchuk who has 10 times the resume Yak has.

The idea that Yak is worth Larsson is reactionary lunacy (from Devils fans) because we can't score consistently. With a level-head though, I feel like my fellow Devils fans wouldn't pull off the trade. We are all prone to that lunacy and heck I think I've been swayed to the Yak boat with my fair share of reactionary lunacy from time to time but certainly not for Larsson.

The Devils would never pay the price of Adam Larsson (nevermind +) for that kind of player. D-Men develop much later and Yak comes with far more glaring concerns as a player and a person than Adam Larsson.

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12-10-2013, 03:55 PM
  #116
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Jesus. Testy. Relax.

After being a healthy scratch for consecutive games earlier in the week, Yakupov was put on blast by Russian Olympic scout Igor Kravchuk, currently analyzing NHLers in preparation for the 2014 Winter Games in Sochi.

“He has to make up his mind, if he’s not going to change his game, then he has no future (in the NHL),” Kravchuk told TSN 1200 Radio Ottawa. “From what I see, his team game is really, really poor. He tries to do a lot of things by himself, he has absolutely no defense.

“That’s what really concerns us as scouts.”

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...has-no-future/

And I'm sure everyone is familiar with his infamous quote about not wanting to skate or forecheck all the time. I'm mobile or i would find it.
So what you're saying, is that you're ignoring the IF that Kravchuk said. The way he practices shows that he is dedicated to learning how he must change his game. It's just not a very smooth transition, but he's a smart player, he will pick it up eventually.

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12-10-2013, 03:56 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
You should probably not be picking quotes that were taken out of context for your arguments. The entire statement he made was (paraphrasing) that he doesn't like playing like a grinder, in a third line role with no offensive ice time. Do you have a link to any of these "Russian Scouts" who claim he won't make it? Yakupov skates hard, forechecks, hits a lot actually, and is, by all accounts, working on his defensive game. New Jersey has no offensive young players aside from Henrique, and a gluttony of good young defensemen, albeit ones with less upside than Larsson. You use Kovalchuk as an example, but I'm sure you realize he played around 30 minutes a game for them, so his play wasn't a concern for them. You claiming that Yakupov has any concerns whatsoever as a person shows that you really know very little about him, and have latched onto the HF conjecture, that is quite frankly, wrong in almost every way. Is he struggling to find his defensive game? Sure, but you need to remember that all through junior, he has never been asked to play a 2 way game. He's learning, it will come with time.
I posted the link above to the Russian scout. Quoted it. Here's Yaks quote, it was NOT paraphrasing:

"I wasn't happy about it last night," said Yakupov. "You can say a million words about getting better but coach says I'm not playing, so I'm not playing.

"I'm not happy about it. I just want to play every game," Yakupov said.

I'm going to play my game ... I'm not going to change but maybe play better without the puck, or forecheck more, but I love playing with the puck. I really don't like skating all the time, and forechecking, and hitting somebody every shift. I don't think it's my game."

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...-straight-game

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12-10-2013, 03:58 PM
  #118
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So what you're saying, is that you're ignoring the IF that Kravchuk said. The way he practices shows that he is dedicated to learning how he must change his game. It's just not a very smooth transition, but he's a smart player, he will pick it up eventually.
Are you serious? Scout says "if he doesn't change his game he won't make it in the nhl"

Yak says "I am not going to change my game"

This isn't rocket science. It's the transitive property.

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12-10-2013, 03:59 PM
  #119
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What is the exchange rate of One Yak as compared to One Daigle?

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12-10-2013, 04:00 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
I posted the link above to the Russian scout. Quoted it. Here's Yaks quote, it was NOT paraphrasing:

"I wasn't happy about it last night," said Yakupov. "You can say a million words about getting better but coach says I'm not playing, so I'm not playing.

"I'm not happy about it. I just want to play every game," Yakupov said.

I'm going to play my game ... I'm not going to change but maybe play better without the puck, or forecheck more, but I love playing with the puck. I really don't like skating all the time, and forechecking, and hitting somebody every shift. I don't think it's my game."

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...-straight-game
And the reporter who first reported that quote conveniently left out the rest of his statement, where he said he has to work hard to get out of his slump, and figure out how to adjust to play as a team. It was left out almost everywhere, because it kills the story. You can go through life believing that every two sentence quote is the be all, end all, but there was a lot more said by Yakupov that night than the two sentences every hack reporter has focussed on since. They did their job though, they are having their story read weeks after it happened. The guy who put the entire thing in, not so much. That is paraphrasing, selective quoting, whatever you want to call it, and its not accurate "journalism".

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12-10-2013, 04:01 PM
  #121
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Are you serious? Scout says "if he doesn't change his game he won't make it in the nhl"

Yak says "I am not going to change my game"

This isn't rocket science. It's the transitive property.
He didn't say he wasn't going to play his game. He said he had to continue to play his game to get out of his slump. You can pick one liners all you like, its not the complete story. But it works with your argument so I guess you'll stick with it, right?

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12-10-2013, 04:09 PM
  #122
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Don't even think he's done enough to land a guy like Larsson who hasn't shown any glaring, red flag concerns like Yak has. Larsson does what he's told. He doesn't make demands.
What red flag concerns ?? His disagreement with the coach about playing time ?

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12-10-2013, 04:12 PM
  #123
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You can't talk about his value now without looking at what his peak is. GM's won't just look at his struggles for a third of the season and say he's a plug. He had a great rookie year and was a number one pick. All this talk about Daigle who never really performed at the NHL level is a red herring. GM's are paid to evaluate talent and will look at what they think the player could achieve and not simply look at what they are doing at the moment.
rarely do i agree with vancouver fans but yes i agree

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12-10-2013, 04:16 PM
  #124
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He didn't say he wasn't going to play his game. He said he had to continue to play his game to get out of his slump. You can pick one liners all you like, its not the complete story. But it works with your argument so I guess you'll stick with it, right?
not to mention that yakupov is still not yet comfortable with the english language....but he doesn't need to since he's going back to KHL in a year or so

"BEST MY FEELING!" - yakupov after scoring the tying goal against the kings prior to the knee slide

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12-10-2013, 04:20 PM
  #125
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A professional scout said that if he doesn't change he's not going to make it in the NHL. Yakupov says he's going to try much harder and continue playing his game but says, and i quote "i'm not going to change my game."

He's struggling mightily right now. My point is that because of the above reasons no team in their right mind is going to pay a premium for a player that some scouts (heck his own national team's scouts) say may not even end up making it.

For the Devils, specifically, he's a no go. The system we play and the demands of our organization + 19 year old Yak are incompatible.

I do not believe he has reached his ceiling nor do I believe he is a lost cause. But when speaking of his value right now, I don't pay the price I would pay if he didn't have those concerns.

Again, I'm not leaving anything out. And I'll go back to the original sources on each article.

1. Yakupov's statements:

Quote:
“I wasn’t happy about it last night,” said Yakupov. “You can say a million words about getting better but coach says I’m not playing, so I’m not playing.

“I’m not happy about it. I just want to play every game.

“I’m going to play my game,” he said. “I’m not going to change but maybe play better without the puck, or forecheck more, but I love playing with the puck. I really don’t like skating all the time, and forechecking, and hitting somebody every shift. I don’t think it’s my game.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...031/story.html

These are his statements to the original reporter, Joanne Ireland. I bolded the relevant part.

2. Russian Scout:

Quote:
“He has to make [up] his mind,” Kravchuk said this morning on Team 1200 radio in Ottawa. “If he’s not going to change his game, then he has no future.

Please. Go on.

“Obviously, from what I see, his team game is really, really poor. He tries to do a lot of things by himself and he has absolutely no defense and that’s what really concerns [me] as a scout. But if he’s going to listen to what the coach says, if he’s going to change his game, then he’s got a future.”
http://nhl.si.com/2013/10/16/russian...has-no-future/

The short of it is. If he doesn't change his game, he has no NHL future. Yak says he doesn't want to change his game, thinks if he plays HIS game better he will improve.

Impasse.

Since he's struggling I'm siding with the scout and I'm not paying Larsson, a kid who has no red flags to speak of right now, for him.

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