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Snow's next move

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Old
12-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #26
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Snow has actually proved to be quite the gambler: the Vanek, Smyth, and Zednik deals, all the maneuvering at drafts, some high risk contracts (like Bailey).

The kinds of moves you are talking about, high value assets for high value assets are pretty rare in the NHL with the salary cap and all. And, in the Isles case, they simply don't have depth at any one position or a lot of valuable assets that would make this sort of approach sensible. Right now they have maybe three vets with high trade value who the team sees as either untouchable or close to untouchable (Tavares, Okposo, and Hamonic), one or two with modest trade value (Nielsen), a few vets whose team impact vastly exceeds their market value (Martin and Czikas), kids they probably shouldn't move (Strome, Nelson, Reinhart, and Pulock - maybe even Lee), impending UFAs, and some junk (Bailey, Grabner). That's not a lot of fuel for a hockey value-for-value trade in any case.
But then we're back full circle to the dilemma the Islanders face. How does Snow acquire a legitimate top four defender if, as you say, the Isles are limited in what they can deal of value as it is, and the ones that do hold value, he's unwilling to deal?

If the only pieces he's willing to deal are the Baileys and Grabners of this world, he'll only be getting similar players back in return on defense. Guys who are inconsistent and, when at their best could be top four defenders, but because of that lack of consistency are usually no better than bottom pairing guys.

I guess that's basically my question: how exactly does Snow fix the Islanders' defense/goaltending situation if the only players of value are off limits in a trade?

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12-10-2013, 04:40 PM
  #27
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If Lehner goes lights out the next three games, Murray may be intrigued to move Anderson. As far as vet D, we have Corvo who has been playing awesome and is cheap. I doubt that is what you need.

Unfortunately the players Ottawa needs are the ones that the Islanders are unlikely to move.
A top 6 power forward and a top 4 RHD.

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12-10-2013, 04:41 PM
  #28
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I don't think Snow will make a major move.
I believe that he will sit back this year, try and re-sign FA's and let his prospects develop. At this point the playoffs are a very long shot but drafting Ekblad (a puck moving Dman) to play along side Reinhart is a strong possibility. That would be a very solid top pairing in a few years, especially if Show can find a vet Dman to shelter their development.

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12-10-2013, 04:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
But then we're back full circle to the dilemma the Islanders face. How does Snow acquire a legitimate top four defender if, as you say, the Isles are limited in what they can deal of value as it is, and the ones that do hold value, he's unwilling to deal?

If the only pieces he's willing to deal are the Baileys and Grabners of this world, he'll only be getting similar players back in return on defense. Guys who are inconsistent and, when at their best could be top four defenders, but because of that lack of consistency are usually no better than bottom pairing guys.

I guess that's basically my question: how exactly does Snow fix the Islanders' defense/goaltending situation if the only players of value are off limits in a trade?
Snow has told fans to expect upgrades to come internally. He made that comment right after the Pens series.

I think the isles are counting heavily on their Stromes/Reinharts/Pulocks/Nelson.

Unfortunately, Cappy is so worried about his job security, he would rather play a struggling/ unproductive vet like Regin over a 1st/2nd yr player.

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12-10-2013, 04:51 PM
  #30
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Their 2-13-2 run has put coach Jack Capuano's job in serious peril -- owner Charles Wang and general manager Garth Snow were in attendance again Monday night -- and cast serious doubt that the core of this organization is capable of leading the team to any type of success.
To me, the above SCREAMS they're considering moving Nielsen. With Nelson and Strome here, they can probably move him now when his value is arguably at its highest (signed for a good deal at a number of years, coming off a hot streak) and not suffer too dramatic a fall off.

Staple then continues with this quote, which is either subtle foreshadowing or just plain random, but this is what this team has driven me to.

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"We have five minutes every night where we just lose it," Frans Nielsen said. "We did it at the end of the second. We've done it before."
To whom? For what? I don't know.

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12-10-2013, 04:52 PM
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I think Snow is looking to actually make a fairly large, culture changing deal. This team desperately needs a few veteran players, preferably a top 4 and a top 6 who have skill and grit, and most importantly know how to win. I hope and believe Snow sees this. Too much leadership placed on Tavares too soon. Can he obtain a Peca type forward and defender? Not to mention a goaltender upgrade? Doubtful. But someone needs to show the young players how to win. Need culture changers.
The team's solution to the whole veteran thing for the last number of years has been to bring in perimeter has-beens who are 6 months away from being euthanized. Doug Weight, Marty Reasoner, Steve Staois, Mark Eaton, Bill Guerin, etc. This year's version of that kind of crap was to re-sign a broken Evgeni Nabokov and a REALLY broken Radek Martinek. Josh Bailey and Nino were horribly mishandled for years. They promoted a nobody to their head coaching position simply because he was already under the team's payroll as the AHL head coach, and then made Doug Weight his assistant while shelved on IR. Anyone who believes that Charles Wang is going to start opening his checkbook, the Islanders will start properly developing their young players, and will start making legitimate moves to change culture resembling a team that is serious about mirroring what passes for normal NHL standards is delusional and has not been paying attention to what has been going on for the last decade.The Islanders have desperately needed a lot of things for like a decade now. Ninety-nine percent of the time those things get ignored with Snow and Wang confidently insisting that there's a "plan" and they're on schedule and blah blah blah. The team would rather do everything it can to silence critics like Chris Botta and Billy Jaffe than actually address the criticisms.

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12-10-2013, 04:53 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
If Lehner goes lights out the next three games, Murray may be intrigued to move Anderson. As far as vet D, we have Corvo who has been playing awesome and is cheap. I doubt that is what you need.

Unfortunately the players Ottawa needs are the ones that the Islanders are unlikely to move.
A top 6 power forward and a top 4 RHD.
No interest in 34 yr old Anderson or Corvo.

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12-10-2013, 04:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
No interest in 34 yr old Anderson or Corvo.
First of all, Anderson is 32.

Second of all, are your friends with MAK?

Thirdly, how old do you expect a vet to be?

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12-10-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
But then we're back full circle to the dilemma the Islanders face. How does Snow acquire a legitimate top four defender if, as you say, the Isles are limited in what they can deal of value as it is, and the ones that do hold value, he's unwilling to deal?

If the only pieces he's willing to deal are the Baileys and Grabners of this world, he'll only be getting similar players back in return on defense. Guys who are inconsistent and, when at their best could be top four defenders, but because of that lack of consistency are usually no better than bottom pairing guys.

I guess that's basically my question: how exactly does Snow fix the Islanders' defense/goaltending situation if the only players of value are off limits in a trade?
Who said an easy fix was out there at all? If Snow moves Okposo, who will the RW on the first line? If we delete Hamonic, who do we build our defense around? What happens to the future if we move Strome, Nelson, etc?

What valuable commodities do the Isles have to deal that would make the least bit of sense to move?

I just don't see anything there.

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12-10-2013, 04:59 PM
  #35
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To me, the above SCREAMS they're considering moving Nielsen. With Nelson and Strome here, they can probably move him now when his value is arguably at its highest (signed for a good deal at a number of years, coming off a hot streak) and not suffer too dramatic a fall off.

Staple then continues with this quote, which is either subtle foreshadowing or just plain random, but this is what this team has driven me to.



To whom? For what? I don't know.
I think Snow has become the teflon gm. While I want Cappy gone, don't like his work with the young players, I am surprised Snow has not gotten more criticism.


Snow had big question marks in goal and on the blueline. He made two trades. Neither addressed the goaltending or defense.

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12-10-2013, 05:00 PM
  #36
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We need a COMPETENT physical veteran. Not another castoff.....
What team battling for the playoffs is going to give up a top4 competent blueliner? Especially give up one without decent value coming back. Snow already gave up a 1st and 2nd pick, so unless he wants to give up his 1st in the McDavid draft, which he'd be foolish to do, all he's got to work with is 2nd round picks, players that aren't helping his own team and prospects he doesn't want to move. That's not a whole lot of good.

Any team that's rebuilding (aka not competing for playoffs), is going to want youth back and a 2nd rounder isn't going to get a top4 D.

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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
There is a recent Staple tweet that Snow took heat for. I think it was around Nov. 25 , that Staple tweeted Snow wanted to add a defenseman who was not a rental.
The problem is that Staple said Snow does not want to give up any of his better nhlers or his top prospects.

How does he add this top 4 , without giving up something he values?

No mention about MacDonald or Vanek extensions. If they cannot be extended, I would think Vanek/MacDonald will be Snow's big trade chips.

Both Grabner and Bailey got off to strong starts, but have struggled.Neither will have strong trade value, so I doubt either is moved.
Add to it, no GM is going to give Snow any softies. They know they have the upperhand on him and they're going to squeeze him for all he's got.

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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Personally, I have no idea. I'm just trying to guess what Snow will do.

With Nabby coming back shortly, I don't see the need to acquire a "struggling vet" and I also don't see the value of a patch (like Carolina's Peters). So, I am confused.
No one knows what Snow is going to do. Going out to get Vanek v getting blueline help didn't help him and may actually now be hurting him because he's moved out assets to get Vanek. He should have been putting those assets into Ehrhoff or Myers.

Nabby was struggling before he went out with an injury. I wouldn't bank on him helping the team much once he's back.

Rest assured that if a solid young blueliner or top4 veteran D is available Islanders will be competing against, at least, Edmonton for that player and Edmonton has a golden stock of young forwards, vets like Hemsky, and more picks in the next 2 drafts then the Isles have. They're in a very tough spot right now. If they're luck, it's a team that doesn't want to help Edmonton and the Isles in the EC are a better option for them.


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12-10-2013, 05:01 PM
  #37
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If Lehner goes lights out the next three games, Murray may be intrigued to move Anderson. As far as vet D, we have Corvo who has been playing awesome and is cheap. I doubt that is what you need.

Unfortunately the players Ottawa needs are the ones that the Islanders are unlikely to move.
A top 6 power forward and a top 4 RHD.
Corvo, meh. I don't care how well he has been playing. He is marginal.

Anderson would be fine, but there isn't going to be any reason for him to be moved within conference without a nice return, and you won't get that from Long Island.

We do have a top six winger to move as well as a top four dman. But, they are both impending UFAs. I see Ottawa's horizon as longer term.

IMO, Ottawa will not be in the conversation.

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12-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #38
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Maybe Isles and Edmonton can help each other out. Nielson or Bailey for N.Schultz.

Edmonton need a defensive forward and center as bad as they need blueline help. Schultz isn't providing the solution for Edmonton which is the same gap the Isles need, but maybe he's better then some of the blueline options the Islanders are putting out there. Don't know, there are few options out there.

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12-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #39
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MacDonald is the one defenseman that fits the role that the Islanders need more of, moving or losing him would be taking leaps backwards.

Joe MacDonald is a goaltender who plays for the Detroit Red Wings. ANDREW MacDonald is a defenseman who plays for the New York Islanders.

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12-10-2013, 05:10 PM
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First of all, Anderson is 32.

Second of all, are your friends with MAK?

Thirdly, how old do you expect a vet to be?
Last spring I lobbied on tbe Isles board for Khudobin. The isles have identified ufas , who they felt were capable of taking on a bigger role then they had with their old team.
Guys like PAP and Moulson.

I think Khudobin in just that type of pickup. Carolina has three goalies in Ward, Khudobin and Peters. Peters played well , but will have to pass thru waivers. The press is speculating about Khudobin or Peters being dealt.

I would like a Khudobin trade. Let Nabby and Khudobin split playing time. See if Khudobin cannot take the #1 spot from Nabby.

If he fails, there are quite a few quality goalies scheduled to becone ufas in July.

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12-10-2013, 05:10 PM
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Joe MacDonald is a goaltender who plays for the Detroit Red Wings. ANDREW MacDonald is a defenseman who plays for the New York Islanders.
Ugh....my bad

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12-10-2013, 05:14 PM
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I think Snow made his huge deal: Vanek.

I don't see him making a culture changing deal. I think he adds a blueliner and goalie between now and July, while trying to sell Vanek on the Brooklyn move and adds more kids to the roster.
Vanek was his shot at getting a top talent to play with Tavares. While no one knows what Snow thinks, reading between the lines of the few reports out there, I think(hope) maybe he's run out of patience with certain people. I agree he's probably not moving any prospects, I could see him moving current roster players in a 2 fer swap, getting a veteran back and opening a roster spot for a youngster. And hopefully he's about had enough of Capuano

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12-10-2013, 05:15 PM
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I think the Islanders should probably try to trade Vanek and recoup what they can between now and the deadline.(the last thing you want is to have him get injured and get nothing for him if you cant resign him...personally, I think he is Minnesota bound) Then if their 2014 draft pick falls in the top 5....draft one of Ekblad, Reinhart, Draisaitl or Dal Colle and use their mid to late 1st they should acquire in the Vanek trade to draft the best available Defenseman if they don't land Ekblad. Or they could roll the dice and give the Sabres their 2014 pick and if they win the lottery in 2015, all will be forgiven. It might not be ideal but it's where the Isles are at right now.

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12-10-2013, 05:15 PM
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Maybe Isles and Edmonton can help each other out. Nielson or Bailey for N.Schultz.

Edmonton need a defensive forward and center as bad as they need blueline help. Schultz isn't providing the solution for Edmonton which is the same gap the Isles need, but maybe he's better then some of the blueline options the Islanders are putting out there. Don't know, there are few options out there.
I don't think the isles are looking for a project. They have several kids either on their blueline or close to nhl ready. They need someone very solid in his own end of the ice.

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12-10-2013, 05:16 PM
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I don't think the isles are looking for a project. They have several kids either on their blueline or close to nhl ready. They need someone very solid in his own end of the ice.
I lol'ed

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12-10-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I think Snow made his huge deal: Vanek.

I don't see him making a culture changing deal. I think he adds a blueliner and goalie between now and July, while trying to sell Vanek on the Brooklyn move and adds more kids to the roster.
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Vanek was his shot at getting a top talent to play with Tavares.
What I keep hearing and reading from various media analysts is that the Islanders went into this season with question marks in goal and on defense - yet Snow did nothing with that trade for Vanek that addressed either need. Instead, he dealt a popular player and his 1st round pick for a rental that clearly said he didn't want to be part of a rebuilding team in Buffalo. Why would the Isles really think Vanek will want to be part of a rebuild on Long Island?


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12-10-2013, 05:21 PM
  #47
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I don't think the isles are looking for a project. They have several kids either on their blueline or close to nhl ready. They need someone very solid in his own end of the ice.
Then they've got to be willing to pony up to get that guy. Struggling bottom 6 players and late round picks, isn't going to get him.

Alec Martinez probably won't cost you much, but a guy like Enstrom or Bogo, will. So it's a matter of if the Isles want to part with some valuable pieces or not.

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12-10-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
There is a recent Staple tweet that Snow took heat for. I think it was around Nov. 25 , that Staple tweeted Snow wanted to add a defenseman who was not a rental.
The problem is that Staple said Snow does not want to give up any of his better nhlers or his top prospects.

How does he add this top 4 , without giving up something he values?

No mention about MacDonald or Vanek extensions. If they cannot be extended, I would think Vanek/MacDonald will be Snow's big trade chips.

Both Grabner and Bailey got off to strong starts, but have struggled.Neither will have strong trade value, so I doubt either is moved.
He isn't getting a top 4 D for an UFA rental either. Logically the teams interested in Vanek (or other UFAs, but you probably weren't really looking at getting a top 4 D for McDonald anyway) now or later would be teams trying to compete. They don't give up top 4 D at that point. Snow is more likely to do what he usually does and just set the bar for top 4 D low enough he finds one on waivers.

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12-10-2013, 05:27 PM
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What I keep hearing and reading from various media analysts is that the Islanders went into this season with question marks in goal and on defense - yet Snow did nothing with that trade for Vanek that addressed either need. Instead, he dealt a popular player and his 1st round pick for a rental that clearly said he didn't want to be part of a rebuilding team in Buffalo. Why would the Isles really think Vanek will want to be part of a rebuild on Long Island?


1. Yormark runs the business side of the organization..tix sales/ merchandising. He has spoken about needing to put a strong product out to bring tix buyers back.

2. Wang told the NY Times he knew he needed star power in Brooklyn.

3. Snow has called Vanek elite.

I think it is clear that Vanek.is seen as a stronger tix draw/ star power by Wang/Snow/Barclays execs.

And it does not sound like Snow felt his team was rebuilding when he added Vanek. Coming off the Pens series, it sounds like Snow expected his team to be a serious playoff contendern

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12-10-2013, 05:27 PM
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At this point, I think the Isles's season is sunk. It'll take an incredible run to make the playoffs and there are still too many holes in the lineup. It's too late. Snow will have to try for next year.

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