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Old
12-10-2013, 03:57 PM
  #51
Preds101
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Still waiting on names of free agents who didn't want to play here (or is this speculation?). Other than Weber and Suter, who both said they wanted roster improvements before singing long term contracts.

Singing free agents is not a means to build an offense.

There are ZERO players in the top 25 of scoring who signed with a new team as a free agent.
So are you for or against Trotz/Poile? It sounds like you are for them, but you are saying that you can't sign a top goal scorer. That means you have to draft them correct? Last year we had a top 5 pick and who did we draft? Seth Jones, who I was and still okay with drafting, but Poile said he would have still taken him if they had the first overall pick. Who did they pick next? Jonathan-Ismael Diaby another Dman. Like you said if we want top offensive talent it needs to be drafted and Poile/Trotz do not seem to want to do it.

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12-10-2013, 04:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Preds101 View Post
So are you for or against Trotz/Poile? It sounds like you are for them, but you are saying that you can't sign a top goal scorer. That means you have to draft them correct? Last year we had a top 5 pick and who did we draft? Seth Jones, who I was and still okay with drafting, but Poile said he would have still taken him if they had the first overall pick. Who did they pick next? Jonathan-Ismael Diaby another Dman. Like you said if we want top offensive talent it needs to be drafted and Poile/Trotz do not seem to want to do it.
Most teams draft them or trade for them. Rarely do you see a good offensive talent sign with another team in the peak of his career.

Hossa and Parise come to mind. Hossa obviously wanted to play with other talented players. Parise had the hometown thing.

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12-10-2013, 04:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Most teams draft them or trade for them. Rarely do you see a good offensive talent sign with another team in the peak of his career.

Hossa and Parise come to mind. Hossa obviously wanted to play with other talented players. Parise had the hometown thing.
The Preds definitely do not have the assets to pull off a trade for a star player signed to a longer term deal without gutting it somewhere else. No team is going to take a quantity of grit players for a quality star (Nystrom/Hendriks/Clune). In order for us to be competitive we either have to suck for a few years and draft/develop players or suck for a few years, draft prospects and then trade them for stars. It seems like a lot of fans don't believe that the Preds can sustain a rebuild mode but the way the past two years have gone, and the current contracts signed, I don't think there is any way around it.

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12-10-2013, 04:18 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Preds101 View Post
The Preds definitely do not have the assets to pull off a trade for a star player signed to a longer term deal without gutting it somewhere else. No team is going to take a quantity of grit players for a quality star (Nystrom/Hendriks/Clune). In order for us to be competitive we either have to suck for a few years and draft/develop players or suck for a few years, draft prospects and then trade them for stars. It seems like a lot of fans don't believe that the Preds can sustain a rebuild mode but the way the past two years have gone, and the current contracts signed, I don't think there is any way around it.
They don't now-- they did in the Suter/Hamhuis era.

The problem is it's a problem that hasn't been addressed for 10 years. There's no quick solution now.

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12-10-2013, 04:21 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
They don't now-- they did in the Suter/Hamhuis era.

The problem is it's a problem that hasn't been addressed for 10 years. There's no quick solution now.
I am just curious, are you for or against getting rid of Trotz/Poile? Do you think this is a problem that they created and should be held responsible, or they tried to do the best they could with what they had available?

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12-10-2013, 04:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Still waiting on names of free agents who didn't want to play here (or is this speculation?). Other than Weber and Suter, who both said they wanted roster improvements before singing long term contracts.

Singing free agents is not a means to build an offense.

There are ZERO players in the top 25 of scoring who signed with a new team as a free agent.
You are right that there are no top 25 scorers that were FA with Parise being #28. There were several players traded that we could have tried for like Bobby Ryan, Tyler Seguin, Clarke McArthur and of course MGrabovski. Who at 25 points would be our leading scorer, which currently is Legwand with 20 points and #89 on the list and our next two are Horny and Smith with 15 points each and #'s 147/148.

As much as I like a lot of our players, I think some need to be moved to help the team.

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12-10-2013, 05:54 PM
  #57
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I gotta say Trotz. We can cherry pick good and bad draft picks by Poile but overall the organization is pretty good at drafting and developing two-way hockey talent. The old Preds under Trotz had attitude. As a Thrasher fan, I really admired how they were feisty, major pains-in-the-*ss to play against. Now with the same type of roster, they're ho-hum. You can start your back-up goalie against today's Preds in Nashville and do OK. Somewhere, at some point, the mojo left and I think that rests more with Trotz.

This will sound like heresy but I think Rinne's contract and Weber's were big mistakes. Didn't think so then and don't necessarily blame Poile, but we can develoip goalies like nobody else. And Weber clearly showed he wanted out and he is playing with no fire whatsoever - just putting in the time.

We don't make the playoffs this year, its Armageddon time in Nashville. Even though he's not greatly to blame, fire Poile and Trotz. Trade Rinne and Weber. Convert to an offensive system and let Jones and our young D-men ride it out on D. We'll suck for two years and then the sun will come out.

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12-10-2013, 05:57 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Still waiting on names of free agents who didn't want to play here (or is this speculation?). Other than Weber and Suter, who both said they wanted roster improvements before singing long term contracts.

Singing free agents is not a means to build an offense.

There are ZERO players in the top 25 of scoring who signed with a new team as a free agent.
Regarding FAs who didn't want to play here, will all due respect I don't think that is a fair question to ask. Poile is not going to come out to the general public and list off the names of the players he went after who turned down coming here. And players who choose not to come here do not make it a habit to go public with their reasons.

No one can really say who Poile has tried to get here via FA or trade where the player simply said No. I guess there are rumors from time to time (Kessel, Seguin, etc.) but who really knows?

In my opinion, if I were a big time scoring forward and had control of where I went, I would look at Nashville and (fairly or unfairly) see small market, team that doesn't spend to the cap, and system which seems to stifle offense. It would take a massive overpayment or term to secure my services. Sound familiar? See: Gaustad, Cullen, Nystrom, Hendricks.

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12-10-2013, 07:46 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Montross View Post
Regarding FAs who didn't want to play here, will all due respect I don't think that is a fair question to ask. Poile is not going to come out to the general public and list off the names of the players he went after who turned down coming here.
I agree. But it keeps getting thrown out here that FA don't want to sign here because of Trotz, which appears to be 100% speculation not based on anything. That's why I asked if there was actually any fact to this.

The only two free agents who publicly showed hesitancy signing here (Weber, Suter) told us why they were hesitant-- they wanted to see roster improvements-- which is all on Poile.

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12-10-2013, 07:55 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Preds101 View Post
I am just curious, are you for or against getting rid of Trotz/Poile? Do you think this is a problem that they created and should be held responsible, or they tried to do the best they could with what they had available?
I've said many times I think Poile doesn't have what it takes to get a team to the elite level. We were on the cusp of being elite, and he made all the wrong moves / non-moves to get us to where we are.

I'm numb on Trotz at this point. I think he usually gets the most out of what he's given. We have a serious void of offensive talent, no amount of coaching will fix that.

As long as Poile is in charge, I suspect Trotz will be fired if we remain a lottery team, because that's just what you do when you have no answers. And I'm not sure Trotz can handle a couple more years of rebuilding either.

If Trotz is fired and Poile is still in charge, I fully expect Housley to be promoted to head coach. It's the "safe" in-house choice, and Poile likes safe.

But what I'd really like is a new GM. Don't ask me who, because I'm not privy to NHL mgmt circles, but someone who proactively builds a roster while being patient but not settling with "safe".


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12-10-2013, 08:54 PM
  #61
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Trotz is quite possibly the best coach in the league. Moving him would just be dumb and another team would scoop him up immediately!
We would never even have been a playoffs or second round team without his coaching. He is an outstanding coach IMO.

Poile doesn't give trotz much to work with and he still does well for what he has. I'm developing a huge dislike for poile, he is just to scared to do anything to make team better. Last time he brought in a stay forward was that trade deadline for a rental Peter forsberg. That's been ages, and this was by far one of the most disappointing offseasons, much like the one before this as well. Our biggest forward acquisition in any recent offseason I can recall was Lombardi, just brutal. He needs to go, imagine what trotzy does with some actual talent?!?!

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12-10-2013, 09:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Still waiting on names of free agents who didn't want to play here (or is this speculation?). Other than Weber and Suter, who both said they wanted roster improvements before singing long term contracts.

Singing free agents is not a means to build an offense.

There are ZERO players in the top 25 of scoring who signed with a new team as a free agent.
Oh, it's speculation. But the lack of signings kind of support that speculation.

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12-10-2013, 09:13 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Trotz is quite possibly the best coach in the league. Moving him would just be dumb and another team would scoop him up immediately!
We would never even have been a playoffs or second round team without his coaching. He is an outstanding coach IMO.

Poile doesn't give trotz much to work with and he still does well for what he has. I'm developing a huge dislike for poile, he is just to scared to do anything to make team better. Last time he brought in a stay forward was that trade deadline for a rental Peter forsberg. That's been ages, and this was by far one of the most disappointing offseasons, much like the one before this as well. Our biggest forward acquisition in any recent offseason I can recall was Lombardi, just brutal. He needs to go, imagine what trotzy does with some actual talent?!?!
Loses in the first round http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2...edators_season

They're both to blame. Moreso Poile, but both.

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12-10-2013, 09:49 PM
  #64
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Oh, it's speculation. But the lack of signings kind of support that speculation.
Who were you hoping to get that you think Poile pursued?

Remember, this is the same Poile that waited for every other significant free agent to call us.

Personally, I would have much rather have Mason Raymond and Brendan Morrow this year. Poile unexplainably offered those long-term, big dollar contracts to Hendricks, Cullen, etc. Meanwhile it took forever for Raymond and Morrow to get one-year million dollar contracts.

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12-11-2013, 08:40 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Who were you hoping to get that you think Poile pursued?

Remember, this is the same Poile that waited for every other significant free agent to call us.

Personally, I would have much rather have Mason Raymond and Brendan Morrow this year. Poile unexplainably offered those long-term, big dollar contracts to Hendricks, Cullen, etc. Meanwhile it took forever for Raymond and Morrow to get one-year million dollar contracts.
I have no idea, that's above my paygrade.

I agree though, Stand Pat Poile was probably waiting on someone to call him.

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12-11-2013, 09:29 AM
  #66
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imagine what trotzy does with some actual talent?!?!
Crap the bed in the playoffs.

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12-11-2013, 09:52 AM
  #67
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I think trotz is a great coach. David Poile is a really good GM.
But we just need a change.
Make the big move by firing/let them retire before any trades/contracts are signed.
Let the new faces decide who we let walk or trade or sign. Poile seems to be scared to death of change. I can live with this years team sucking it up as long as we get another top three draft pick and next year I do not believe there is a team in the NHL that deserves McDavid more than the Predators. We have never had that offensive stud here who scares people like Crosby or Ovechkin. So suck all we can for the rest of this year and next year and lets rebuild this baby from the GM down.

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12-11-2013, 10:52 AM
  #68
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Trotz decides ice time and i think that is one of our big issues.
Poile gets lots of 3rd line grinders and that is a big issue.

I fault both.

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12-11-2013, 11:47 AM
  #69
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Crap the bed in the playoffs.

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12-11-2013, 01:10 PM
  #70
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I think trotz is a great coach. David Poile is a really good GM.
But we just need a change.
Make the big move by firing/let them retire before any trades/contracts are signed.
Let the new faces decide who we let walk or trade or sign. Poile seems to be scared to death of change. I can live with this years team sucking it up as long as we get another top three draft pick and next year I do not believe there is a team in the NHL that deserves McDavid more than the Predators. We have never had that offensive stud here who scares people like Crosby or Ovechkin. So suck all we can for the rest of this year and next year and lets rebuild this baby from the GM down.
Im pretty sure nearly every team would say the same thing about getting to draft McDavid.

For the people saying that it isn't Trotz fault for some of the losses, what about him benching Smith, Forsberg, and our skill players for "emotional" players like Clune and Cullen. They also stated that as soon as Forsberg is healthy he is going back to Milwaukee. I would rather see Fosberg, Smith, and some of the Admirals getting play time with this lost season then the grit that they are using now. We need to get our rookies some NHL time, giving it to the vets does nothing to help our future.

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12-11-2013, 01:29 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Who were you hoping to get that you think Poile pursued?

Remember, this is the same Poile that waited for every other significant free agent to call us.

Personally, I would have much rather have Mason Raymond and Brendan Morrow this year. Poile unexplainably offered those long-term, big dollar contracts to Hendricks, Cullen, etc. Meanwhile it took forever for Raymond and Morrow to get one-year million dollar contracts.
Off the top of my head: Briere, Parise, Kessel (RFA). Surely there are more, but Poile rarely lets rumors leak out.

I agree we should have pursued more riskier/high reward players. Others I think we should have gone after are Jagr or Whitney. Even though they are past their prime, they are very creative and experienced which the young kids could look up to and learn from. Maybe Erat doesn't disappear and ask for a trade if he got to play with his childhood role model?

And then skimping on the backup position (we spent the lowest in all of UFA on a backup goalie) was obviously a mistake.

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12-11-2013, 02:09 PM
  #72
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Preach it brother....

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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I was thinking of all of Poile's mess-ups that have gotten us to where we are.

Hamhuis should have been moved before his UFA year, same with Suter. I know what Poile was thinking but he ended up wrong.
Everytime i've brought this up in the last 2 years i've been completely ripped for it on the boards, but it doesn't make it any less true. The team we had with Kariya was a possible contender with deficiencies that got exploited. Not so for our more recent playoff teams. If we played in the playoffs 100 times with the team we had in Suter's last year, we would have maybe won the cup once or twice. Suter is really excellent, for sure, particularly in evading the forecheck and first pass, but he was not the difference between a true contender and a non-contender. He was more the difference between an outside shot and no shot at all. Contenders are built by sustained pressure in the offensive zone plus finishers. We are getting some sustained pressure but our finishing is the worst i've seen in the NHL by any team. Our defense presently is as good as any defense is likely to ever be, and if Pekka gets better the defense is set. We are two top 6 forwards from being what can be considered a real contender. I would trade Leggy and Fisher and possibly two other forwards and a defenseman other that Weber or Jones for the best possible player, hope that we can draft an NHL ready top 6 player in this draft, and go from there.


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12-11-2013, 03:26 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by hoosierpred View Post
Everytime i've brought this up in the last 2 years i've been completely ripped for it on the boards, but it doesn't make it any less true. The team we had with Kariya was a possible contender with deficiencies that got exploited. Not so for our more recent playoff teams. If we played in the playoffs 100 times with the team we had in Suter's last year, we would have maybe won the cup once or twice. Suter is really excellent, for sure, particularly in evading the forecheck and first pass, but he was not the difference between a true contender and a non-contender. He was more the difference between an outside shot and no shot at all. Contenders are built by sustained pressure in the offensive zone plus finishers. We are getting some sustained pressure but our finishing is the worst i've seen in the NHL by any team. Our defense presently is as good as any defense is likely to ever be, and if Pekka gets better the defense is set. We are two top 6 forwards from being what can be considered a real contender. I would trade Leggy and Fisher and possibly two other forwards and a defenseman other that Weber or Jones for the best possible player, hope that we can draft an NHL ready top 6 player in this draft, and go from there.
Should've done it once Suter/his agent tabled contract negotiations during that off-season

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12-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #74
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<snip> I would rather see Fosberg, Smith, and some of the Admirals getting play time with this lost season then the grit that they are using now. We need to get our rookies some NHL time, giving it to the vets does nothing to help our future.
Have to disagree. Players need to be ready when they come up from Milwaukee, not still developing. And even if we wanted to skate the kids - like we did the last 15 games or so last year - it's not instead of the guys we're calling "grinders" - those guys skate the 4th line energy minutes, and that not what we want our prospects doing.

I agree - Smith should be playing, and he has, except for the Caps game (assuming we accept that he has the flu, as reported). If we got kids ready to play, any of the 3 Cs and Spals could be moved - they'd all help a PO-bound team and obviously bring different returns, but that'd open up playing spots for the kids. (maybe even move Bourque)

Those 5, along with Smith and Willy, are also our contracts that need to be straightened out by end of 2014/5; at least 3, if not 4, need to be gone after that anyway, so if we really aren't gonna' be a solid PO team next year might-as-well move them if we got kids ready to go.

Poile makes those kinda' moves and I can forgive being a tad too generous to Nystrom and Hendricks.

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12-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #75
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Off the top of my head: Briere, Parise, Kessel (RFA). Surely there are more, but Poile rarely lets rumors leak out.
Kessel was RFA, not sure how that relates to being able to attract UFAs. Now Poile/mgmt allegedly not wanting to pay his $5,5m salary-- that's another issue.

Parise would have been nice (one of the FEW high-end offensive players in their prime hitting UFA in the past 5 years). But how are we going to compete with him wanting to play for his hometown?

Briere would have been fine I guess, but he's old and he would've barley helped this team. Certainly not a missing piece type player.

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