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Byfuglien to Philly

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Old
12-02-2013, 11:25 PM
  #126
Flyerfan52
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
The fact is that Buff, Yandle and Edler have all been quietly shopped for the last 2 years. 2 FREAKING YEARS!!!! I'm sure teams have inquired about acquiring them but NONE have been moved. All 3 have been rumored to be going to Philly along with a plethora of other teams and guess what, they are still with their original team.


By who?
Eklund?
Some blogger in underpants that lives in his Mommy's basement?

You must be real well connected if it's otherwise. Proof would be nice if you're going to claim something as a fact. .

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Old
12-03-2013, 12:19 AM
  #127
scelaton
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
In terms of all the defensemen in the Winnipeg Jets organization alone, Dustin Byfuglien is the number 5 defenseman I'd want to trade for. Meaning, there are at least four other defensemen in that organization alone that I'd prefer to have over Byfuglien: Bogosian, Morrissey, Trouba, Enstrom, (Although this isn't to say any of them would be available).
Yeah... I really don't want Buff anywhere near the Flyers, Hell to the No.
I think your sentiments are shared by many, which may be why it might make more sense for the Jets to trade Bogosian.
Of the Jets top 3 RHD:
Byfuglien has top 10 potential and is playing that way right now. Despite all his risks, he is very strong and creative defensively and, offensively, absolutely dominant. He could carry a team on the verge right through the playoffs.
Bogosian has top 30 potential (i.e. solid first pairing but never in the Norris conversation), all the requisite physical assets, but injuries and a sub-Norris hockey IQ will prevent him from being elite.
Trouba is a franchise player and, IF he stays healthy, will be the best of the 3.

Byfuglien is undervalued around the league, Bogo is slightly overvalued and Trouba is… unbelievable.
We can't keep all 3 on the right side, so either Trouba switches to LHD or one of Buff or Bogo is expendable.
But be careful who you choose...

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Old
12-03-2013, 12:45 AM
  #128
allan5oh
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Would be tough to trade Bogo. I know he loves it here, his agent said on the radio that Bogo wants to play his whole career here. He's also met people around town and you can tell he loves it. He also lives here part time during the summer.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:00 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I just wanted to add this for EVERYONES sake. Purely offensive dman like Buff are not nearly as sought after nor are as valuable in a trade as many people here seem to think. Souray was equal in every way to Buff and he was bought out. Even when he actually was traded he didn't return anything close to what is being asked for in this and the many other threads.

The fact is that Buff, Yandle and Edler have all been quietly shopped for the last 2 years. 2 FREAKING YEARS!!!! I'm sure teams have inquired about acquiring them but NONE have been moved. All 3 have been rumored to be going to Philly along with a plethora of other teams and guess what, they are still with their original team.

I've some attempts at throwing out phrases like"supply and demand" to justify the exorbitant asking price for Buff but that's a failure in truly understanding of said principle. The reality is that the supply of like minded dman is 3 (Buff, KY and Edler) and the demand is zero (none have been traded).

You can sit there and say "It's going to cost you Couturier, Morin and a 1st for Buff" all you want but you are completely clueless if you think that's what he's worth. No team is going to offer that much for him hence he's still on your team.

I'll try and put it into perspective for you. Chris Pronger, a future HOF player, who when traded immediately LEAD his new team the the Cup finals, was traded to Philly for Lupul, Sbissa, and a 1st. If you asked any TO fans I think they'd gladly trade Lupul for Couturier. Ask most Duck fans and I think they'd trade Sbissa for Morin. If you honestly believe that you could get Couturier + Morin + a 1st (equal or better than what Pronger returned) then you have no clue about this game, the history of trades, nor ACTUAL player values and it's pointless to discuss it any further with you.
Homer was not as desperate and willing to pay the price as he probably will be by the end of this season.

Timonen will retire after this season. And if they miss the playoffs, something will have to give.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:37 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I just wanted to add this for EVERYONES sake. Purely offensive dman like Buff are not nearly as sought after nor are as valuable in a trade as many people here seem to think. Souray was equal in every way to Buff and he was bought out. Even when he actually was traded he didn't return anything close to what is being asked for in this and the many other threads.

The fact is that Buff, Yandle and Edler have all been quietly shopped for the last 2 years. 2 FREAKING YEARS!!!! I'm sure teams have inquired about acquiring them but NONE have been moved. All 3 have been rumored to be going to Philly along with a plethora of other teams and guess what, they are still with their original team.

I've some attempts at throwing out phrases like"supply and demand" to justify the exorbitant asking price for Buff but that's a failure in truly understanding of said principle. The reality is that the supply of like minded dman is 3 (Buff, KY and Edler) and the demand is zero (none have been traded).

You can sit there and say "It's going to cost you Couturier, Morin and a 1st for Buff" all you want but you are completely clueless if you think that's what he's worth. No team is going to offer that much for him hence he's still on your team.

I'll try and put it into perspective for you. Chris Pronger, a future HOF player, who when traded immediately LEAD his new team the the Cup finals, was traded to Philly for Lupul, Sbissa, and a 1st. If you asked any TO fans I think they'd gladly trade Lupul for Couturier. Ask most Duck fans and I think they'd trade Sbissa for Morin. If you honestly believe that you could get Couturier + Morin + a 1st (equal or better than what Pronger returned) then you have no clue about this game, the history of trades, nor ACTUAL player values and it's pointless to discuss it any further with you.
Oh please let's compare to comparable players and comparable situations. You are seriously comparing a washed up 35 yr old Souray to a 28 yr old Buff who guarantees 50-60 points? Get real! And Ducks had cap issues when they traded Pronger, Pronger was 34 yrs old at that point. Not a valid comparison for a 28 yr old Buff.

A valid comparable for Buff is the Brent Burns trade. Burns and Buff are almost identical players (although Buff has slightly better production) similar in age when Burns was traded. The return that Burns got was Setogucci, Charlie Coyle and a 1st round pick for Burns + 2nd round pick. And this is when Burns was a pending UFA the following year whereas Buff is signed for a few more years at a very team friendly caphit. So lets be real, Burns trade is a benchmark for any hypothetical Buff trade that might happen. The market value set for Buff (as evidenced by the Burns trade) is a solid roster player, a promising prospect and a 1st round pick. That is a reasonable starting point. I understand that some teams may not be willing to pay that price, that's fine but that's what the price is gonna be (based on recent comparables not conjecture or "gut") at the very least if a team wants Buff.

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Old
12-03-2013, 05:13 AM
  #131
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Lol couturier was dominant yes, but that to my knowledge was actually just one game. Byfuglien does this all the time. I don't think philly and winnipeg make good trade partners.

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Old
12-03-2013, 06:25 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Only Jokinen View Post
Lol couturier was dominant yes, but that to my knowledge was actually just one game. Byfuglien does this all the time. I don't think philly and winnipeg make good trade partners.
To be fair to Couturier, he had a slow stop but has slowly become the Flyers' best forward. His offense is starting to peek through, especially since the Read-Couturier-Downie line came together.

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Old
12-03-2013, 12:20 PM
  #133
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Who wouldn't want a guy like that?

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Old
12-10-2013, 07:10 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Thesaurus View Post
Both are close, but not quite there in my opinion. I like B. Schenn and Couts but Luke doesn't do much for the Jets with their log jam at RD, he would slot behind Bogosian and Trouba on the 3rd pair most likely. Not sure what to add to get either deal as close as it needs to be though.

Needs wise the Jets are looking for a top 4 LD defensive minded shutdown guy, top 6 RW help and bottom 6 help.
How about a deal of Buff and Frolik for Voracek and Grossmann?

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Old
12-10-2013, 07:50 PM
  #135
Flair Hay
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
How about a deal of Buff and Frolik for Voracek and Grossmann?
Sounds pretty fair at first glance anyway...

Not sure about the Frolik/Grossman swap. Don't really know much about Grossman besides his handedness, role and style. Is he noticeably better than Ellerbe or Clitsome?

Frolik is best suited to 3rd line but he's a damn good 3rd liner. He's not even at UFA years yet. He'd be a good fit in Philly but he's a good fit here too. Any way you could say Setoguchi instead? He's UFA but Philly has a good track record of resigning UFAs they trade for.

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Old
12-10-2013, 07:53 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Sounds pretty fair at first glance anyway...

Not sure about the Frolik/Grossman swap. Don't really know much about Grossman besides his handedness, role and style. Is he noticeably better than Ellerbe or Clitsome?

Frolik is best suited to 3rd line but he's a damn good 3rd liner. He's not even at UFA years yet. He'd be a good fit in Philly but he's a good fit here too. Any way you could say Setoguchi instead? He's UFA but Philly has a good track record of resigning UFAs they trade for.
Grossmann is better than both, yes.

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