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01-07-2007, 01:07 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
What's funny is that the Rangers have now won 4 in a row, Prucha's been restored to the 2nd line, Pock's getting ice time, the role players are doing their job, and we've seen how up and down the NHL has been this season, and people still want a "fire Renney" thread.
I think most people have heard the Maxwell House jingle beckoning... logic is breaking through. In seven-game losing streaks it's easy to blame anyone and everyone. Yeah Prucha, Cullen, Kaspar and even Pock are worlds better than they were... Malik is having a pretty off-year. Jagr and Shanahan seem to have some mental block recently. The team is rolling now... I think we still need another center who can pass... but our coach is fine as long as we're not blowing three goal leads in the last 10 minutes.

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01-07-2007, 03:14 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Come on Ola, you know that's not true at all. The majority of people that I have seen calling for Renney's head have legitimate resons for disliking him, totally independent from the losing streak. Things like Renney's lack of holding players accountable, inability to roll lines, contradictions in the press and questionable line pairings are what have caused most to dislike Renney, and those were things that were being discussed last season and this season, well before the 7-game skid. It's really disrespectful to the community to pigeonhole everyone who wants Renney fired as "some young kid" who "doesn't understand" and all that. It is simply not true, and it's infuriating to see people such as yourself simply lump everyone together that disagrees with you. Seriously, stop it.

Of course there are people out there who are totally impatient and will freak at any sign of a prolonged losing streak- this is sports, for Christ's sake. It's irritating, but it's there. But don't take my opinion, which I feel is complex, well thought out and suported by fact, and try and turn it into some trivial matter because it's easier than actually going point-for-point.
To be honest, I am on purpose trying to be a little agitating, though defenitly not disrespect anyone.

But I truely belive that the impatience here in NY hurts the team. Especially if it costs Renney his job.

Tom can't really be blamed at all IMO for the amount of youth he have brought up this season. He took a shot at Dawes, but he weren't ready -- which were pretty obvious. Pck got his shot, but his faults IMO are obvious, this team needs a D that are good in the transition game from his own end and up, Pck aren't good at that. He often gets in trouble in thoose areas. He is very promising from the blueline and in, but his offensive game from his own end and out aren't great.

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But the tempo of the game in the NHL is really high and it showed that Pck played allot in the ECHL last year. Pck didn't really have that "feeling" how to set up the simple transition plays. He hanged on to the puck a little bit to long at times or passed players a little bit to early, the timming wasn't really there. And I didn't got the feeling that its was nerves/preseason types of plays. Its something that will come with time, though its quit the science and a really imporant part of a defenders game.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3554230&postcount=13

This is from a post I made in late september 2005, from last seasons preseason. The link is above. Very recently Renney said the same thing, Pck could make better decisions with the puck out of his own end. Defense aren't his only flaw.

My point is, Renney certainly feels the heat, wheter he is fired and someone new is brought in, or Renney stays, what will the conclusions be after this season? Would a new coach think? He would have heard of the critisisim on Renney for not playing the kids, he would look at Pck and think "oh who can blame him?" and draw the conclusion that the only way to keep NY happy is to win win win and rather do it sooner then later, he would defenitly not be patience.

And thats exactly what we need, patience. I am a very critical person, I am not a big Renney lover, I would love to hear him explain his 5 on 3 formation... Though what we needs now, IMO, is exactly what we are getting. Patience. To not tie up allot of money on cheap solutions, because they often comes with allot of risks. To develop our assets, no matter how much pressure we have on us to succed we can't risk rushing a kid like Staal for example. Its not worth playing Prucha into the ground when he is struggling, we must have patience with him. Renney IMO are bringing thoose things.

I also loves Renney's game plan in a broad picture. He clearly read how the rulechange would effect the game well last season. Our style aren't perfect for a team that are in a rebuild, but the finnished product will/would be great. It would have been allot easier playing a more simple style, allot less misstakes and better results these times, but with a more simple style there are also allot less potential. This is also proof of how the prime goal with Renney are the long term, not the short term. And I doubt we would see that from a new coach.

In the end I still think that when we loose many starts looking for faults, and comes up with a bunch of stuff and critisisim that defenitly aren't proportionate, like the Isbister stroy, like Pcks ice time, like Immonen. I never got the accountability thing, our roster is flawed, can you get a flawed defense to play well defensivly without taking penaltys? Well thats something I have never seen. From my perspective Nylander have been scratched and benched, Malik and Kaspar have been scratched. Poti were both scratched and benched, more then once. Look around the league, you won't find many vets like that beeing scratched by other coaches in a entire season.

Look at Jarkko Immonen for example, imagine if he were a UFA signing instead of a 24, gooing on 25, y/o player. I atleast would be tearing my hair if we had signed him for a 3 year 2 million deal. I just can't ever imagine Immonen becomming a good 2nd line center in this league. What would be the purpose for Renney to go out of his way to play him? Squezz out a 4th round pick from another team, would that be worth it? Atleast Pck have some potential...


Last edited by Ola: 01-07-2007 at 03:21 PM.
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01-07-2007, 03:40 PM
  #28
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01-07-2007, 05:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post

Tom can't really be blamed at all IMO for the amount of youth he have brought up this season. He took a shot at Dawes, but he weren't ready -- which were pretty obvious. Pck got his shot, but his faults IMO are obvious, this team needs a D that are good in the transition game from his own end and up, Pck aren't good at that.
Agreed. The lack of true youth in the lineup if the fault of Sather, not Renney. The coach isn't the one responsible for indiscriminately doling out multi-year deals to the likes of Aaron Ward, Matt Cullen and Marek Malik. That's all on Slats.

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01-07-2007, 05:27 PM
  #30
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jas...

if Renney were let go, I wouldn't shed a tear. Nothing against the guy, but I don't think he's the guy for the job. Didn't from day 1, and still do not. And as cited a while ago, the Devils, in first place, fired Ftorek, so I don't see why it should be such a big deal (note: I don't think it would happen).

For me, it wasn't the losing streak that prompted me to want to see a change, it was his hiring last season moreso and my opinion hasn't changed one bit. Glad to see the Rangers turn it around, although the only thing different, really, has been Lundqvist.

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01-07-2007, 05:30 PM
  #31
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nyr...

it's not all on Sather, although a lot of it is on Sather. Renney could've been more patient with Dawes, could've played Callahan a bit more, maybe could've been more patient with Pock, especially when Malik was playing so horribly early on; ditto Kaspar. Immonen's been a big debate, but his handling of him in the end is kind of curious too.

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01-07-2007, 05:42 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
it's not all on Sather, although a lot of it is on Sather. Renney could've been more patient with Dawes, could've played Callahan a bit more, maybe could've been more patient with Pock, especially when Malik was playing so horribly early on; ditto Kaspar. Immonen's been a big debate, but his handling of him in the end is kind of curious too.
You're right, I just meant that the makeup of the actual roster is on Sather. Glen could force a youth movement by recalling Cally, Dawes, et al, though then I suppose Renney could respond by not playing them at all. Fortunately, Slats and Renney seem to like each other and get along well. I guess my point is that I blame Slats for the state of the roster, and Renney for utilizing the players on the roster as he has.

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01-07-2007, 05:59 PM
  #33
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It's more like...

Slats is on the beach. Isn't Renney also Director of Player Development?

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01-07-2007, 06:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Slats is on the beach. Isn't Renney also Director of Player Development?
Yep.

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01-07-2007, 06:18 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
if Renney were let go, I wouldn't shed a tear. Nothing against the guy, but I don't think he's the guy for the job. Didn't from day 1, and still do not. And as cited a while ago, the Devils, in first place, fired Ftorek, so I don't see why it should be such a big deal (note: I don't think it would happen).

For me, it wasn't the losing streak that prompted me to want to see a change, it was his hiring last season moreso and my opinion hasn't changed one bit. Glad to see the Rangers turn it around, although the only thing different, really, has been Lundqvist.
We just have to agree to dissagree.

I think overall Renney have done a great job. He have brought in a ton of youth, and developed them. Allot of people on our roster are performing allot better then what were to be expected, you always see Renney in the ear of the players on the bench, he have defenitly prooved what a great teacher he is.

He have also brought in a ton of youth, something thats easily forgotten.

I also really likes the system he is inforcing and the direction the organization is heading.

And the bottom line will always be the results, nobody can argue that they are absolutely remarkable. He have manged to turn a team with ONLY two high caliber players into a solid PO team. Who could have imagined that we could have competed with teams like Ottawa with Redden, Alfie, Spezza and Heatly, or with NJD with Elias, Gomez, Rafalski and Brodeur or Tampa with LeCav, MSL and Richard with the roster we have.

In the end I can understand people complaining at the team, they have flaws no doubt about. I just have a hard time with the critisisim towards Renney, its a fact that his results are extremely extremely good if you look at the roster. Its very unusual for someone to take that kind of heat with absolutely perfect results if you look at the roster.

We only had two stars last season with JJ and Lundqvist, now Shanahan can be added to them. Compare that with the other teams, who have 4-5 established top 2 line forwards, we have no real top D's, Ottawa have a handful, NJD Rafalski, Tampa got Boyle and Co.

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01-07-2007, 06:36 PM
  #36
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We can disagree...

the ton of youth are mostly set on third and fourth lines - which in this day and age could be akin to AHLers. They're defensively responsible grinders, mostly. That's not too impressive.

But that's not all Renney - Sather put together a team in which he could have only x veterans anyways, and he uses them as his top forwards and mostly as top defensemen. That may be the best they have, but to say 'tons of youth' implies something different.

Also, the scoring comes from four vets. The bottom two lines have how many goals in the last 10 games? Several with zero all season. This isn't a successful 'team'.

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01-07-2007, 06:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the ton of youth are mostly set on third and fourth lines - which in this day and age could be akin to AHLers. They're defensively responsible grinders, mostly. That's not too impressive.

But that's not all Renney - Sather put together a team in which he could have only x veterans anyways, and he uses them as his top forwards and mostly as top defensemen. That may be the best they have, but to say 'tons of youth' implies something different.

Also, the scoring comes from four vets. The bottom two lines have how many goals in the last 10 games? Several with zero all season.
I don't know, Tyutin is a top D, Lundqvist is the starting goalie, Prucha is on the 2nd line. To be honest I don't get your talk about Sather and X veterans at all, Prucha are getting ice time ahead of allot of vets, Lundqvist ahead of Weekes, and Tyutin ahead of Ozo, Kaspar, Malik and Rachunek. I know who often makes that arguement, and you know better then to listen to him... Guys who come here fresh must wonder what da heck you are talking about quit frankly.

I am pretty sure that there aren't any prospect left out by Renney that could have made a impact on a top line.

IMO there is a argument to be made the Renney have rushed the kids, see Dawes and maybe even Kondratiev, defenitly not the other way around. It defenitly seems right now that Nigel should have been left off the team at the start of the season, he weren't ready and failing have obviously hurt his confidence. Lets say Dawes were left in HFD, and brough up for the first time a few weeks ago, its possible that he might have made a bigger impact, he is pretty close in terms of talent. Drats were also given a spot pretty fast, maybe if he were kept in HFD/Russia one year longer he might really have made a impact this season. He had a helluva PO run for Anaheims farm team last spring...

I would very much have liked to see Kondratiev make his NHL debut this season next to Rachunek on the 3rd pairing. So its possible we lost another one there again because we rushed the kids.

Quote:
This isn't a successful 'team'.
Thats kind of my point. I am not saying that he got a ton of work with. Though he is getting very much out of very little. Nobody can argue with that. Look at some of the teams not even close to the PO's.

If you go back 2 years, our top prospects are playing in the NHL, all but Kondratiev and Montoya. There weren't anyone who were ready, Dawes and Immonen got close, but quite frankly thoose two have never been among our top prospects.

Now we got Korpikoski, Staal, Montoya, Dubinsky and Callahan who defenitly will make a push next season, and have completly diffrent potential then Dawes and Immonen, atleast the first 4.


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01-07-2007, 06:56 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
We just have to agree to dissagree.

I think overall Renney have done a great job. He have brought in a ton of youth, and developed them. Allot of people on our roster are performing allot better then what were to be expected, you always see Renney in the ear of the players on the bench, he have defenitly prooved what a great teacher he is.
He didn't "bring in" those players though. They were he before he was. He did a good job with Tyutin and Henrik, although "good job" entails letting them play after they'd shown they deserved it. I don't know that he did anything out of the ordinary in developing those players.

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He have also brought in a ton of youth, something thats easily forgotten.
I don't really know what you mean by "brought in a ton of youth." Could you clarify?

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And the bottom line will always be the results, nobody can argue that they are absolutely remarkable. He have manged to turn a team with ONLY two high caliber players into a solid PO team. Who could have imagined that we could have competed with teams like Ottawa with Redden, Alfie, Spezza and Heatly, or with NJD with Elias, Gomez, Rafalski and Brodeur or Tampa with LeCav, MSL and Richard with the roster we have.
Well, I'd say that Lundqvist, Jagr, Straka, Nylander and Shannah all qualify as "high caliber" players. So that's 5, not two.

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In the end I can understand people complaining at the team, they have flaws no doubt about. I just have a hard time with the critisisim towards Renney, its a fact that his results are extremely extremely good if you look at the roster. Its very unusual for someone to take that kind of heat with absolutely perfect results if you look at the roster.
We're essentially 22-21. I don't know how you can classify that as "extremely extremely good," even taking into account the holes we have. I think it's average. I guess we have different standards of excellence. Certainly, I'd NEVER refer to this season as being a "perfect result." We are .500 and the streakiest damn team in the league.


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01-07-2007, 06:59 PM
  #39
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Lundqvist...

has what to do with Renney? We called for him to be a starter very early last year and he d!cked around with him. Also, his divvying up of ice time among his goalies was questionable.

I'll give him Tyutin - he at least remained patient through his struggles...that's one.

Prucha's another story. Trip to the AHL, playing with Betts, then scoring like a madman, and back to playing with Betts with whom he scored zero goals and had zero chemistry last season, and then this season he couldn't get the former 30 goal scorer going again - playing him on the fourth line and such. I'm supposed to say this coach was great for bringing up youth? Very, very questionable at best.

And I don't argue he rushed the kids - I do argue that his focus was on winning more than figuring out what to do with the kids. There was more ice time for Dawes this season. What he would've done with it, who knows, since we didn't see it. Immonen's treatment was questionable, despity our individual assessments of him. Defense was a mess early. Rozsival was hurt. Malik was sick. Kaspar was off. Yet Pock, who I don't like, was benched. His consistency with kids is off because his focus is on getting Jagr out there as much as possible, winning games and getting ahead in the standings, then playing kids because it's safer. That's a cop-out.

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01-07-2007, 07:04 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He didn't "bring in" those players though. They were he before he was. He did a good job with Tyutin and Henrik, although "good job" entails letting them play after they'd shown they deserved it. I don't know that he did anything out of the ordinary in developing those players.
What?

We all know that Renney have brought thoose kids in.

But please tell me what player he haven't brought in?

This is ridiculos, you complain at Renney for "only bringing in 3rd and 4th lineers", then say that the 3 top players he have brought in don't count. What should he do, **** his wife at home, and bring up kids on his own and put em on the 1st line?

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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
We're essentially 22-21. I don't know how you can classify that as "extremely extremely good," even taking into account the holes we have. I think it's average. I guess we have different standards of excellence. Certainly, I'd NEVER refer to this season as being a "perfect result." We are .500 and the streakiest damn team in the league.
Yeah, with a team started from scratch two seasons ago. Even gooing .500 under thoose conditions is unheard of in the NHL. We are a PO team, what do you expect with this roster?

Its funny how you say "even taking into account the holes we have"...

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And I don't argue he rushed the kids - I do argue that his focus was on winning more than figuring out what to do with the kids. There was more ice time for Dawes this season. What he would've done with it, who knows, since we didn't see it.
I am gooing to skip the part about Prucha, cause looking at Prucha's talent, size and skillevel I am prepaired to say that his results this season is pretty good. I love the kid, though I don't even remotly understand how you can hold the results Renney have gotten out of him against him.

What will be Renney's failure with Korpikoski, him not scoring 50 goals? This next couple of years will be long, I better get a valium perscription!

Though the part I included about Dawes is a arugment I can agree with. Lets say we would have hanged on to him longer on the 3rd line.

I think it could have gone both ways, there clearly were some damage after his first stint, that wouldn't have been made if he weren't rushed. If we kept him longer there could have been bigger damage, or he could have taken that final step.

Though I gotta say that in the games Dawes played on the 3rd line, he accomplished nothing, especially not in the transition game. And thats not a good sign for a kid like Dawes on a 3rd line. He must be good there on the rush.

At the same time, I were really impressed with him in about half his preseason games, the other half he didn't cut it. I said all summer that Dawes were the only kid who I were sure were gooing to compete for a spot, but that it also were a very close call, and that I had hopes that Dubinsky could come out of the blue and take a spot. Now I look at it like Dawes failed, and Dubinsky weren't quite there in his overall game.

Maybe I am wrong, but quite frankly, I just have a really hard time to see Renney failing bringing in any kids this season. He tryed and it didn't workout.


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01-07-2007, 07:32 PM
  #41
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Unheard of?

EDIT - let's review some history:

in 1993, the Rangers finished with what record? In 1994, what did the Rangers do? During the award ceremonies, where was Keenan? 'Nuff said on that, but let's continue...that answers this: "Even gooing .500 under thoose conditions is unheard of in the NHL. We are a PO team, what do you expect with this roster?
". EDIT: what's unheard of is not having an NHL season - again, noone knew what to expect.

Buffalo was predicted to finish where in 2006? Edmonton was predicted to finish where, in 2006? Carolina was finished where in 2006? Philly was predicted to finish where in 2006 (trick question, because the next question is why, and the follow-up was look at the ensuing injuries).

Look at the revamped Rangers - added Weekes, Straka, Nylander, Rucchin, Malik, Rozsival, [Jagr a bit earlier], Rucinsky, Sykora [a bit later], Nieminen, among others. Many of those were the core of the Rangers team that made the playoffs, err, got out to a quick start, and many of them can be considered 'vets UFA signings'.

In any event, and I'll say this for the umpteenth time, you cannot say a team finished somewhere in 1994 and then predict 05-06. The pundits got it all wrong because all they knew was 03-04. What they didn't understand was that every team had significantly changed. Many had retirings, UFAs that left because their contracts ran out, rookies matured a year, and junior/AHL guys matured a year. An entire year was lost. Almost impossible to predict what will happen the following year as a result. IMPOSSIBLE. Noone, not one pundit, got it correct, and for good reason.

And look at last season - you had a team that got ahead of the crowd, experienced it's first real injury (not sure who that was, but let's give the benefit of the doubt since this team was very healthy last season), some tiredness that was not 'managed' during the course of the season, and they ended the season in a whimper, and an embarassment in the last four games. Yay! Coach of the year!

As for Prucha...he scored 30 goals in 68 games, in many of which he played less than 10 minutes, and with non-offensive players. That's all I know. That's ES goals. He's on pace for 12 in 82 games this season. You'd hope that he'd build on what he had last season, not regress. Forget about your opinion of Prucha, but you do hope that players improve under a coach, and is put in situations to improve. Prucha has regressed. That's coaching.

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01-07-2007, 07:35 PM
  #42
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Just to add here guys......Renneys job is to put a winning team on the ice, not to develop young players during the NHL regular season. That's what Hartford and Charlotte are for, and all the other minor league affiliates and coaches are for. This nonsense about firing Renney is just that!

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01-07-2007, 07:45 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
EDIT - let's review some history:

in 1993, the Rangers finished with what record? In 1994, what did the Rangers do? During the award ceremonies, where was Keenan? 'Nuff said on that, but let's continue...that answers this: "Even gooing .500 under thoose conditions is unheard of in the NHL. We are a PO team, what do you expect with this roster?
". EDIT: what's unheard of is not having an NHL season - again, noone knew what to expect.

Buffalo was predicted to finish where in 2006? Edmonton was predicted to finish where, in 2006? Carolina was finished where in 2006? Philly was predicted to finish where in 2006 (trick question, because the next question is why, and the follow-up was look at the ensuing injuries).

Look at the revamped Rangers - added Weekes, Straka, Nylander, Rucchin, Malik, Rozsival, [Jagr a bit earlier], Rucinsky, Sykora [a bit later], Nieminen, among others. Many of those were the core of the Rangers team that made the playoffs, err, got out to a quick start, and many of them can be considered 'vets UFA signings'.

In any event, and I'll say this for the umpteenth time, you cannot say a team finished somewhere in 1994 and then predict 05-06. The pundits got it all wrong because all they knew was 03-04. What they didn't understand was that every team had significantly changed. Many had retirings, UFAs that left because their contracts ran out, rookies matured a year, and junior/AHL guys matured a year. An entire year was lost. Almost impossible to predict what will happen the following year as a result. IMPOSSIBLE. Noone, not one pundit, got it correct, and for good reason.

And look at last season - you had a team that got ahead of the crowd, experienced it's first real injury (not sure who that was, but let's give the benefit of the doubt since this team was very healthy last season), some tiredness that was not 'managed' during the course of the season, and they ended the season in a whimper, and an embarassment in the last four games. Yay! Coach of the year!

As for Prucha...he scored 30 goals in 68 games, in many of which he played less than 10 minutes, and with non-offensive players. That's all I know. That's ES goals. He's on pace for 12 in 82 games this season. You'd hope that he'd build on what he had last season, not regress. Forget about your opinion of Prucha, but you do hope that players improve under a coach, and is put in situations to improve. Prucha has regressed. That's coaching.
All the best teams always have a ton of returning players. It takes time for a coach to build something. 2-3 years is a very short perspective. How long have it take for Buffalo to build there team? How long have it take for Anaheim, for Carolina? For Edmonton?

In 94' we had Messier, Leetch, Zubov and Richter among others returning from 93'. How can you possibly compare that with what Renney had to work with last season? Only Kaspar were the only real returning player...

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01-07-2007, 07:47 PM
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Just to add here guys......Renneys job is to put a winning team on the ice, not to develop young players during the NHL regular season. That's what Hartford and Charlotte are for, and all the other minor league affiliates and coaches are for. This nonsense about firing Renney is just that!
Yeah, and the only reasonable arguments anyone can make is how Renney have rushed kids, Dawes and Kondratiev, who its very possible that it would have been better giving another year.

Like I said, I would have loved to see Drats with another season under his belt given a chance next to Rachunek.

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01-07-2007, 07:50 PM
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Yeah, and the only reasonable arguments anyone can make is how Renney have rushed kids, Dawes and Kondratiev, who its very possible that it would have been better giving another year.

Like I said, I would have loved to see Drats with another season under his belt given a chance next to Rachunek.
To be honest Ola....I got the impression that Kondratiev didn't really warm up to NY. So I guess they did what they thought was best and traded him.

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01-07-2007, 07:57 PM
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ola...

I could've sworn I saw your post say that going from under .500 to a PO team was unheard of - I was citing an example of a last place team that became the President Trophy winner. That's pretty big - wasn't comparing the two teams. Although Buffalo and Carolina had a pretty strong season too, and nobody expected that.

And again, when you miss an entire season, and you have a lot of turnover league-wide, you need to dismiss the returning players comment. Sather put together a team of familiar faces. The top guys, Nylander, Jagr, Straka, Rozisval, Kaspar and others had played together in the past. Rucinsky, Malik and others played together in other leagues, or internatational play, I believe. That's a bit different than bringing in total strangers. Continuity last season did not play into the results of the season as much as past seasons. An entire season was lost. That's significant and changes everything.

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01-07-2007, 11:21 PM
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What's funny is that the Rangers have now won 4 in a row, Prucha's been restored to the 2nd line, Pock's getting ice time, the role players are doing their job, and we've seen how up and down the NHL has been this season, and people still want a "fire Renney" thread.
I hope you realize I did it in jest in response to the foolishness that goes on here every time the Rangers lose a game. Seem to have stirred up all kinds of debate.

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01-07-2007, 11:34 PM
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Oh boy, oh boy, am I glad I missed this thread when I was gone. Why on earth would anyone bump this up?

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01-07-2007, 11:34 PM
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Of course some of it's tongue-in-cheek but it's the first time in over a decade that we've had a good coach. Just think of Ron Lowlife and John ****ler.

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01-08-2007, 01:46 AM
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What?

We all know that Renney have brought thoose kids in.

But please tell me what player he haven't brought in?

This is ridiculos, you complain at Renney for "only bringing in 3rd and 4th lineers", then say that the 3 top players he have brought in don't count. What should he do, **** his wife at home, and bring up kids on his own and put em on the 1st line?
Okay, so I'm guessing you're meaning that as Director of Player Personnel, he was largely responsible for scouting those players (Tyutin, Lundy, Prucha)? That's fine, but I don't see how that has any influence on evaluating his job as a coach.

I never for a second complained that Renney brought in only third or fourth liners. That must have been someone else... I don't see how that's even relevant, as I'm critical of his coaching, not what he did as scouting director. What does one have to do with the other?

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Yeah, with a team started from scratch two seasons ago. Even gooing .500 under thoose conditions is unheard of in the NHL. We are a PO team, what do you expect with this roster?

Its funny how you say "even taking into account the holes we have"...
Credit Sather for making some quick moves to make us competitive again. Unless you want to credit Renney with signing Straka, Nylander, Rosie and Shanny along with acquiring Jagr. Our top line and our goaltender carried us the entire year last season, which is pretty much indisputable. Credit Renney for allowing the top line to stay together, but what else did he do specifically that helped us succeed? Not much that as far as I can see, in the the head coaching capacity.

And why is that funny? We need a better option at center for the second line, and a top-2 defenseman. There are about 25 other teams in the league with equally glaring needs- I want a coach that can push us to the front of those 25 other flawed teams, rather than one that allows us to wallow in mediocrity. Why is that so much to ask?

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I am gooing to skip the part about Prucha, cause looking at Prucha's talent, size and skillevel I am prepaired to say that his results this season is pretty good. I love the kid, though I don't even remotly understand how you can hold the results Renney have gotten out of him against him.
The games where Prucha gets good minutes and good PP time, he produces. When he plays little, he struggles to produce. We're caught in a chicken and the egg thing here, where you seem to think that his decreased production leads to decreased minutes, where I see it as decreased minutes lead to decreased production. Renney has stuck by guys like Malik, Rosie, Tyutin and Cullen while they struggled to produce, while it seems that Prucha has one bad shift in the first and he gets five minutes of ice time the rest of the game.

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