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Sather - AV Disconnect

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:17 PM
  #26
FromTheSide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
He isn't trying to implement a "run and gun style". He is trying to implement a puck possession system and has too many grinders who can't play the style.

Lavi would be no improvement.
I wasn't implying that was his style. I was implying we have nothing close to that. Lavi certainly would be an improvement because this clown show of calling up a different guy every game while not fixing any of the actual problems is going to get the team nowhere.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I'll never understand the mindset that the coach should adjust to the personnel. Coaches aren't jack-of-all-trades. What the hell is the GM's job?
Is this a serious post?

So instead of making adjustments a coach should just lose games until the GM rebuilds the team?

By and large you're one if the better posters on this board but this one has me scratching my head.

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12-10-2013, 11:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Sather's made a subpar team.

AV isn't a good coach.

It's a recipe for what we have.
I just don't agree with this sentiment at all. He had a good tenure in Montréal and a great one in Vancouver. He was one game away from winning a cup. Yeah, those Vancouver teams were well built, but he has to given some credit for that. This team is a disaster right now, the players just don't want to play, and to go along with that, they aren't that talented, either.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #29
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well regardless of what we do roster wise, at least we have a goalie who will keep us away from a top 5 pick, thats something to be happy about....or......

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12-10-2013, 11:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Is this a serious post?

So instead of making adjustments a coach should just lose games until the GM rebuilds the team?

By and large you're one if the better posters on this board but this one has me scratching my head.
I think I reached my breaking point with this team tonight. I'm exhausted watching coaches come in and bend over backwards to apply bandaids to a faulty roster. This has been going on since '95. I'd rather watch a coaching staff commit to their philosophy and slowly watch it come to fruition through focused roster building.

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12-10-2013, 11:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
I just don't agree with this sentiment at all. He had a good tenure in Montréal and a great one in Vancouver. He was one game away from winning a cup. Yeah, those Vancouver teams were well built, but he has to given some credit for that. This team is a disaster right now, the players just don't want to play, and to go along with that, they aren't that talented, either.
Yep, I wasn't a huge fan of AV but the problems with this team are mostly the roster. I have a grasp of what he wants to build towards and that is what the Rangers need to strive for.

I don't see anything to gain from going to into a defensive style, six goalie system; Just to get banged up in the regular season and bounced in the first round. I'd rather not make the playoffs, make some moves at the draft, and restructure for a team that fits AV's style. I think that path is a better one.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:26 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I think I reached my breaking point with this team tonight. I'm exhausted watching coaches come in and bend over backwards to apply bandaids to a faulty roster. This has been going on since '95. I'd rather watch a coaching staff commit to their philosophy and slowly watch it come to fruition through focused roster building.
Well, Sather did it for Torts and it got us to ECF. But, those carryover players can't adjust. Hate to say rebuild, but it looks like a soft rebuild needs to happen.

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12-10-2013, 11:29 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I think I reached my breaking point with this team tonight. I'm exhausted watching coaches come in and bend over backwards to apply bandaids to a faulty roster. This has been going on since '95. I'd rather watch a coaching staff commit to their philosophy and slowly watch it come to fruition through focused roster building.
For the most part I'm with you, and generally agree with what your saying and what you'd like to see.

But you and I both know that was never in the cards when they brought AV in here.

And he knew that too.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:38 PM
  #34
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People harping on AV's "coaching style" as if there's a kind of coaching style that can turn Rick Nash, a couple of playmakers, and a bunch of grinders/floaters into a winning team. First it was Renney, then it was Tortorella, and now it's AV. We can change the coach 500 times but as long as they're being handed a mediocre roster nothing is going to change.

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12-10-2013, 11:41 PM
  #35
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I see the scenario playing out like this


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Old
12-10-2013, 11:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
People harping on AV's "coaching style" as if there's a kind of coaching style that can turn Rick Nash, a couple of playmakers, and a bunch of grinders/floaters into a winning team. First it was Renney, then it was Tortorella, and now it's AV. We can change the coach 500 times but as long as they're being handed a mediocre roster nothing is going to change.
Torts took an equally mediocre roster, playing what is unanimously considered a crappy style in the post lockout nhl, to the eastern conference finals.

Coaching is about far more that X's and O's on a marker board.

My beef with "AV's system" is that not everyone appears to be on it and team effort is hit or miss. The team doesn't appear to be all in and working as a cohesive unit. That falls on the coach, and subsequently on the veteran team leaders.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:49 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
For the most part I'm with you, and generally agree with what your saying and what you'd like to see.

But you and I both know that was never in the cards when they brought AV in here.

And he knew that too.
In that case, we might as well let Sather coach the team.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Torts took an equally mediocre roster, playing what is unanimously considered a crappy style in the post lockout nhl, to the eastern conference finals.

Coaching is about far more that X's and O's on a marker board.

My beef with "AV's system" is that not everyone appears to be on it and team effort is hit or miss. The team doesn't appear to be all in and working as a cohesive unit. That falls on the coach, and subsequently on the veteran team leaders.
He also more recently took the team to a 6th seed and 2nd round playoff exit. Last season the team was out of sync and everyone, Sather included, insisted that Tortorella "lost the team" and was "overbearing." Now it's more of the same with Vigneault. 2011-2012 was the one year where everything clicked. There were a far more years where Tortorella led the team to a 7 or 8 seed and a quick playoff exit. It's been almost 15 years with Sather and we've advanced past the 2nd round of the playoffs exactly one time. We've had home ice advantage in the playoffs for exactly one season. We can nitpick aspects of Vigneault's system but there's not a single coach in the NHL who would have this team anywhere close to contention. The roster is flawed. Until he's provided better options than rotating Pyatt and Pouliot in and out of the roster and calling up J.T. Miller every other week there's nothing he can really do.

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Old
12-10-2013, 11:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Torts took an equally mediocre roster, playing what is unanimously considered a crappy style in the post lockout nhl, to the eastern conference finals.

Coaching is about far more that X's and O's on a marker board.

My beef with "AV's system" is that not everyone appears to be on it and team effort is hit or miss. The team doesn't appear to be all in and working as a cohesive unit. That falls on the coach, and subsequently on the veteran team leaders.
Wait what, the '11-12 roster was definitely not mediocre.

The bolded describes last year too!

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Old
12-11-2013, 12:16 AM
  #40
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AV should have brought the Twins with him from Vancouver.....there is no one on this team that has close to the Offensive talent they possess....I don't think he realized how inept the Rangers forwards are when he was hired here.

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12-11-2013, 12:17 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by WhatThePuck View Post
AV should have brought the Twins with him from Vancouver.....there is no one on this team that has close the Offensive talent those two possess....I don't think he realized how inept the Rangers forwards are.
AV doesn't have the authority to just bring players under contract over with him.

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12-11-2013, 12:19 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
AV doesn't have the authority to just bring players under contract over with him.
I was being sarcastic as he doesn't have players like that to run the system he wants.....you know, guys who can make tape to tape passes , create plays and finish their chances.

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Old
12-11-2013, 12:30 AM
  #43
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I was being sarcastic as he doesn't have players like that to run the system he wants.....you know, guys who can make tape to tape passes , create plays and finish their chances.
Ah yes I see. I agree as far as not having a whole lot of skill.

But in addition to that, the Rangers are a bit of an interesting team. Most teams fall somewhere on the spectrum of being a run-and-gun, immensely skilled, but small/soft team, or a tough team to play against but a team that doesn't score much.

The Rangers have neither. They're a soft, lazy team with no skill. It's astonishing really. And many people point to AV as the reason we went soft, but I think that too is a roster issue. We lost alot of stiff players like Prust, Dubinsky, and Fedotenko who I thought never got enough credit. AV did just fine in that regard when he had Burrows, Torres, and Lapierre annoying everyone, and Bieksa beating the crap out of everything that moved.

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12-11-2013, 01:02 AM
  #44
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oof...av just threw sather under the bus in pretty much the most diplomatic way ive ever seen.

hes right. this team is just not built properly.

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Old
12-11-2013, 01:09 AM
  #45
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Sather needs to swallow his pride and give up the GM reigns to Gorton. They need to make wholesale changes to this roster. They need an overhaul. Change the leadership of the team. Rebuild. Retool. Restructure. Pick whichever word you prefer. If they have a lost season or two and end up with a top pick,it happens. It would be the best thing for the organization.

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12-11-2013, 01:32 AM
  #46
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Sather needs to swallow his pride and give up the GM reigns to Gorton. They need to make wholesale changes to this roster. They need an overhaul. Change the leadership of the team. Rebuild. Retool. Restructure. Pick whichever word you prefer. If they have a lost season or two and end up with a top pick,it happens. It would be the best thing for the organization.
Agreed!
Its painfully obvious to see that this team needs to change its personnel to move forward. However, Sather should not be the one making the decisions!!

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12-11-2013, 02:56 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Sather needs to swallow his pride and give up the GM reigns to Gorton. They need to make wholesale changes to this roster. They need an overhaul. Change the leadership of the team. Rebuild. Retool. Restructure. Pick whichever word you prefer. If they have a lost season or two and end up with a top pick,it happens. It would be the best thing for the organization.
Yeah, the team puts its eggs in one basket for that 2013 run. The lockout happened, and it didn't work.

I think this team needs to retool.

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Old
12-11-2013, 05:25 AM
  #48
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Can we get away from the ledge ? One game under .500 with 50 games left

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Old
12-11-2013, 05:31 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I'll never understand the mindset that the coach should adjust to the personnel. Coaches aren't jack-of-all-trades. What the hell is the GM's job?
Bingo!! This mess of 30+ games falls on Sather you knew who was on your roster when you chose to go with AV. Provide the man with some tools or step down and give someone else the responsibility of overseeing the team. It is pathetic what I'm watching night in and night out.

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12-11-2013, 05:32 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Torts took an equally mediocre roster, playing what is unanimously considered a crappy style in the post lockout nhl, to the eastern conference finals.

Coaching is about far more that X's and O's on a marker board.

My beef with "AV's system" is that not everyone appears to be on it and team effort is hit or miss. The team doesn't appear to be all in and working as a cohesive unit. That falls on the coach, and subsequently on the veteran team leaders.
True, but you're kinda forgetting Torts' first two seasons here, starting with his first season where we missed the playoffs entirely, followed by the season where the Rangers got their butts kicked 4 games to 1 in round one. I agree with your last paragraph, but if you're gonna compare the two coaches, I think it's best to do it more apples to apples and focus on both of their first seasons.

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