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Ryan Hollweg

View Poll Results: What should we do with Hollweg???
Send him down to AHL, call up Byers, Korpikoski, Moore 10 9.26%
Package him for a real 2ed line centre 1 0.93%
Put him in better offensive situation like 2ed Powerplay to replace Hall 11 10.19%
Keep him on the line that he is on 86 79.63%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-08-2007, 01:33 PM
  #26
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I saw Hollweg as a guy who could score 10-15 goals, 20-30 points in the NHL but I am just amazed at how that hasn't materialized. Yeah he's the youngest player on the team, but he's still a guy who is 23 going on 24 sometime in the first half of the year you expect at least something.

What's really scary is just how valuable he'd be if he could add scoring. Not a lot of scoring, but just 10 goals and 10 assists even.
We both saw Hollweg in the same vein and why I am a tad disappointed that he hasn't generated anything.... But it could be that he (and Renney, that's the big one) is so hell bent on hitting and being in the right position for defense all the time that offense is so damn hard to generate for him..Again, even by accident, he should have a point or two...That being said, I still think he can hit those expectations if he gets his game together....

part of the reason for saying that is that we haven't heard a word from Renney about Hollweg's need to generate offense nor any of his mamby-pamby nursing and confidence building that he and the entire Ranger organization is always showing Hossa..Which makes me think, Hollweg is carrying out Renney's orders to a TEE--and his significant ice time at points would reflect this....

And totall agree with you on how valuable a checker and hitter like Hollweg could be when throwing in 8-10 goals...Hoefully, in time..

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01-08-2007, 03:10 PM
  #27
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This guy is the most useless player on the team. Is an OK skater, can't score for his life, not a good fighter. Yeah he hits but seems like when he does take the body he gets called for a penalty. He is also pretty small. I realize his roll on this team is a 4th line banger, but c'mon 0 pts in 40+ games. This team needs balanced scoring like we got last year and with players like Hollweg and Hossa who are showing ZERO offense in over half a season and guy like Orts not back in the lineup with Betts I just don't see much offense in the bottom two lines which under Renney gets a lot of ice time.

If we could get anything for Hollweg I would take it. He is the most replacable guy on the team.


Last edited by Radek27: 01-08-2007 at 03:10 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
01-08-2007, 03:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
We both saw Hollweg in the same vein and why I am a tad disappointed that he hasn't generated anything.... But it could be that he (and Renney, that's the big one) is so hell bent on hitting and being in the right position for defense all the time that offense is so damn hard to generate for him..Again, even by accident, he should have a point or two...That being said, I still think he can hit those expectations if he gets his game together....

part of the reason for saying that is that we haven't heard a word from Renney about Hollweg's need to generate offense nor any of his mamby-pamby nursing and confidence building that he and the entire Ranger organization is always showing Hossa..Which makes me think, Hollweg is carrying out Renney's orders to a TEE--and his significant ice time at points would reflect this....

And totall agree with you on how valuable a checker and hitter like Hollweg could be when throwing in 8-10 goals...Hoefully, in time..
Part of what concerns me is the lack of production there was in the AHL as well. Even at that level he only 8 goals as a 21/22 year old. In something like 175 pro games he's only managed 12 goals and that just REALLY surprises me. So either it's something about the Rangers system or he's just one of those guys whose scoring really doesn't translate into the NHL level.

More than anythingt I am surprised with both him and Murray. I thought both were potentially guys who could pop in at least 10 or so goals and neither one of them has seemed to be able to score at the pro level (not just NHL).

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01-08-2007, 05:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I wasn't aware that anything "needed" to be done with Hollweg...
word...

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01-08-2007, 05:47 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
This guy is the most useless player on the team. Is an OK skater, can't score for his life, not a good fighter. Yeah he hits but seems like when he does take the body he gets called for a penalty. He is also pretty small. I realize his roll on this team is a 4th line banger, but c'mon 0 pts in 40+ games. This team needs balanced scoring like we got last year and with players like Hollweg and Hossa who are showing ZERO offense in over half a season and guy like Orts not back in the lineup with Betts I just don't see much offense in the bottom two lines which under Renney gets a lot of ice time.

If we could get anything for Hollweg I would take it. He is the most replacable guy on the team.
please.

he is FOURTH in the league in hits, and YES that stat DOES make a difference. He and Hossa are hard workers who are responsible defensively. I'm not the biggest Orts fan, but he too plays hard every night...

I guess you'd prefer we just roll 4 lines of soft players? Maybe we can trade for dvorak and sign hlavac.... we'll be MUCH better then....

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Old
01-08-2007, 06:01 PM
  #31
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Ryan is perfectly fine in a 4th line role, points or no points. There simply isn't anyone else who brings a physical game even remotely similar on this team.

Where it gets dicey is when he's given 3rd line ice-time by Renney. It's hard to be successful when a guy getting 10 min. produces 0 points. As Edge pointed out, Hollweg hasn't put up points at AHL level either. That would lead me to believe linemates are not the issue. He actually got some shifts with Jagr earlier in the season and spent the whole game in Tampa recently playing LW with Cullen and Shanahan. Still nothing. By comparison, Hossa got 2 assists playing a few shifts with Jagr in the Jersey comeback game. You can write that off as luck, but one would figure Hollweg was due a puck bouncing off him or something.

I think he's an energy 4th liner for the rest of this year. We may hope for some sort of offense down the line, but that's unlikely based on his showing so far as a pro. Most guys who put up points in Juniors don't do it in the NHL. Hollweg's lack of offense isn't at all unusual.

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01-08-2007, 06:30 PM
  #32
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If your getting rid of a forward right now...it's Adam Hall...and they should do so...soon...for a tough guy

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01-08-2007, 11:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22 View Post
please.

he is FOURTH in the league in hits, and YES that stat DOES make a difference. He and Hossa are hard workers who are responsible defensively. I'm not the biggest Orts fan, but he too plays hard every night...

I guess you'd prefer we just roll 4 lines of soft players? Maybe we can trade for dvorak and sign hlavac.... we'll be MUCH better then....
I'm sorry I just don't see how anyone on the Pack or some waiver player can't do what he has done. Call up ANY of those guys on the pack and tell them, just take the body all the time and you can stay here. They will do it and more than likely just as good as Hollweg while maybe chiping in some offense along the way. We have too many offensively challenged fowards to keep this guy around.

Korp, Dawes, Ryan, Orr, Moore, Callahan can all do his job and probably better.

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01-09-2007, 12:26 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm sorry I just don't see how anyone on the Pack or some waiver player can't do what he has done. Call up ANY of those guys on the pack and tell them, just take the body all the time and you can stay here. They will do it and more than likely just as good as Hollweg while maybe chiping in some offense along the way. We have too many offensively challenged fowards to keep this guy around.

Korp, Dawes, Ryan, Orr, Moore, Callahan can all do his job and probably better.
u think Orr is better than Hollweg I hope that is a joke

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01-09-2007, 04:07 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
u think Orr is better than Hollweg I hope that is a joke
Why is it a joke? Atleast Orr fights and can take on some of the heavyweights. Thier skating skills are very similar and Orr can hit just like Holly. Orr i'm sure can put up more points also.

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01-09-2007, 04:22 AM
  #36
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Hollweg is one of the few Rangers im very supportive of and has not disappointed me. Keep him where he is.

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01-09-2007, 06:58 AM
  #37
Tomas Sandstrom 28
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
If your getting rid of a forward right now...it's Adam Hall...and they should do so...soon...for a tough guy
I 100% agree that Adam Hall is the player that we should be asking these kinds of questions about. He is not even close to the player he was advertised to be coming from Nashville. I didn't know much about him at the time, but I was excited when we traded Moore for him. Thought we were making a nice upgrade to our forwards, but at this point I'd reverse that trade in a heartbeat (not that Moore is a savior or anything, just better than Hall)

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01-09-2007, 12:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm sorry I just don't see how anyone on the Pack or some waiver player can't do what he has done. Call up ANY of those guys on the pack and tell them, just take the body all the time and you can stay here. They will do it and more than likely just as good as Hollweg while maybe chiping in some offense along the way. We have too many offensively challenged fowards to keep this guy around.

Korp, Dawes, Ryan, Orr, Moore, Callahan can all do his job and probably better.
I don't think you have a realistic idea of what it takes to be a GOOD hitter in the NHL. Sure anyone can put up "hit" numbers, but laying GOOD, PUNISHING, clean (most of the time) hits the way Hollweg does is a HUGE asset to this team. I think you cleary undervalue the ability it takes to do what he does.

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01-09-2007, 12:38 PM
  #39
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Why is it a joke? Atleast Orr fights and can take on some of the heavyweights. Thier skating skills are very similar and Orr can hit just like Holly. Orr i'm sure can put up more points also.
Hollweg doesn't fight? News to me.

To suggest that Hollweg is not a much better skater is laughable and if he can hit like Hollweg then why doesn't he?

There is nothing to suggest that Orr would put up more numbers. While Hollweg doesn't have great point totals through out his hockey career, Orr's are lower.

You are ignoring intangibles. Hollweg is better at defense and the pk. He has more heart than anyone not named Ortmeyer or Shanahan. His shifts are are 100 mph the entire time he is on the ice. Look at numbers if you want, but you are missing alot of the story in the mean time.

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01-09-2007, 12:44 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Why is it a joke? Atleast Orr fights and can take on some of the heavyweights. Thier skating skills are very similar and Orr can hit just like Holly. Orr i'm sure can put up more points also.
If Orr could skate half as well as Hollweg, he would be playing everynight. And he wouldn't be the fringe NHL player that he is.

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01-09-2007, 01:36 PM
  #41
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Hollweg....

probably plays a bit too much for a guy who has zero points. I like him and all, but I envision a different third line. If the third line isn't going to be matched up against top lines, and it always is not, then there's no reason why you can't get a bit more scoring from that line, which is why Immonen would've been a decent centerman there, assuming the right wingers. Hossa may've even found a role there as the two could've brought a bit of offense and cycling without sacraficing defense - and perhaps that's Hossa's ultimate role, because 40+ games and no goals seems like a long time to go without a goal with taht ice time (Hossa and Hollweg).

Back to Hollweg - this team needs hitting, but it's tough to play a guy a lot who's not scoring. I don't see many successful teams doing that. They have guys who can hit, and score, and that's been my major issue with the makeup of this team (this season and last). You need guys to do both, since with hitting you often try to generate turnovers and chances; Hollweg's hitting's not doing that. I like Hollweg, but he's a fourth liner, and there's nothing wrong with that, and it's the same feeling I get with Ortmeyer. I like him, but he's a fourth liner. I had been suggesting he play the PK too - nothing wrong with taking the burden off Shanny - which still has yet to be done since according to Renney Shanny likes it - but he likes scoring too and I can't help but think that the PK and all the ice time has contributed to his recent scoring slump.

Sorry, every post seems to bring out my frustrations with Renney.

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01-09-2007, 02:18 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Hollweg doesn't fight? News to me.

To suggest that Hollweg is not a much better skater is laughable and if he can hit like Hollweg then why doesn't he?

There is nothing to suggest that Orr would put up more numbers. While Hollweg doesn't have great point totals through out his hockey career, Orr's are lower.

You are ignoring intangibles. Hollweg is better at defense and the pk. He has more heart than anyone not named Ortmeyer or Shanahan. His shifts are are 100 mph the entire time he is on the ice. Look at numbers if you want, but you are missing alot of the story in the mean time.

The intabgibles? He hits, thats it. He brings nothing else to this team, nothing. He is the most replaceable guy in the lineup. He is what he is, a 4th liner who can't score which means he doesn't belong in the NHL. I think we could find a much better player than him to do what that roll calls for.

And I never said he doesn't fight, he just doesn't do it very good. I don't understand the love this guy gets I really don't. The whole idea of the thread was if we could put him in a package to get a center we need would we do it. My answer is yes 100% because obviously a good center isn't easy to come by if 5 teams are claiming Nedved through waivers compared to a player like Hollweg who can be replaced through waivers or a player on the farm team.

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01-09-2007, 02:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Back to Hollweg - this team needs hitting, but it's tough to play a guy a lot who's not scoring. I don't see many successful teams doing that. They have guys who can hit, and score, and that's been my major issue with the makeup of this team (this season and last). You need guys to do both, since with hitting you often try to generate turnovers and chances; Hollweg's hitting's not doing that. I like Hollweg, but he's a fourth liner, and there's nothing wrong with that, and it's the same feeling I get with Ortmeyer. I like him, but he's a fourth liner. I had been suggesting he play the PK too - nothing wrong with taking the burden off Shanny - which still has yet to be done since according to Renney Shanny likes it - but he likes scoring too and I can't help but think that the PK and all the ice time has contributed to his recent scoring slump.

Sorry, every post seems to bring out my frustrations with Renney.
Thats what i'm saying Fletch, a guy like Hollweg is fine if you don't have anohter line and a half of guys who can't score with him.

Ortmeyer- Also can't score but is a great PKer and team player, takes the body.

Ward- Good in the DF zone, great great skater, good on the PK, takes the body.

Hossa- Good puck controll, good pker, has the most offensive upside out of the lower line players

Betts- Good on faceoffs and PK

Hollweg- Hits (and usually gets called for a penalty for it too).

So when the Cullen line cools down again where is the scoring for this team going to come from? Put it all on JJs shoulders again? That didn't work too well last year.

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01-09-2007, 03:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Thats what i'm saying Fletch, a guy like Hollweg is fine if you don't have anohter line and a half of guys who can't score with him.

Ortmeyer- Also can't score but is a great PKer and team player, takes the body.

Ward- Good in the DF zone, great great skater, good on the PK, takes the body.

Hossa- Good puck controll, good pker, has the most offensive upside out of the lower line players

Betts- Good on faceoffs and PK

Hollweg- Hits (and usually gets called for a penalty for it too).

So when the Cullen line cools down again where is the scoring for this team going to come from? Put it all on JJs shoulders again? That didn't work too well last year.
While I've avoided even engaging this conversation to this point, Ward is a great, great skater now and takes the body?

I like how with Hollweg we say all he does is "hit" yes for others we say "takes the body". We also leave out his play on the PK as well and the face that though he's not scoring, he's also not giving up a lot of goals either and is well aware of his defensive ability nor gets credit for being a team player (even though he busts his *** out there). It's one thing to say he's not producing but when you start to present your case like that it looks like a clear bias to start with.

As for the penalty belief that has picked up steam on here, outside of fighting majors (which make up 40 minutes) he has all of 44 minutes in 43 games, hardly a peanlized every hit player. Ryan Hollweg is on pace for a whopping 144 pim, hardly a penalty minute machine considering the style of game he plays.

Does he need to score more? You bet, but valueing him below Hossa, Ward, Hall and others isn't very accurate either. I gurantee you that Hollweg's game is missed if he doesn't play more than any of those guys.

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01-09-2007, 03:27 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
While I've avoided even engaging this conversation to this point, Ward is a great, great skater now and takes the body?

I like how with Hollweg we say all he does is "hit" yes for others we say "takes the body". We also leave out his play on the PK as well and the face that though he's not scoring, he's also not giving up a lot of goals either and is well aware of his defensive ability nor gets credit for being a team player (even though he busts his *** out there). It's one thing to say he's not producing but when you start to present your case like that it looks like a clear bias to start with.

As for the penalty belief that has picked up steam on here, outside of fighting majors (which make up 40 minutes) he has all of 44 minutes in 43 games, hardly a peanlized every hit player. Ryan Hollweg is on pace for a whopping 144 pim, hardly a penalty minute machine considering the style of game he plays.

Does he need to score more? You bet, but valueing him below Hossa, Ward, Hall and others isn't very accurate either. I gurantee you that Hollweg's game is missed if he doesn't play more than any of those guys.

So your saying you don't think Jason Ward is a good skater? I think thats the best part of his game.

I don't feel Hollwegs game will be missed if we bring in anohter player who is willing to take the body like he does. Again the question of this thread was would I deal Hollweg for a 2nd line center and I don't care how much he hits I made that deal(depending the center coming back of course).

Why is it everyone thinks only Hollweg is capable of being a physical player for this team? There are tons of guys in the league like him that bring much more to the table than JUST the hitting.

Hollweg= replacable.
2nd line > Hollweg.

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01-09-2007, 03:40 PM
  #46
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Edge...

I agree wtih your implied assessment of Ward. And I actually think he was better last season and that the whole stint as Jagr's centerman screwed him up as he was a better 3/4 liner before rather than after. And Ward is not a 'good' skater - more like OK. His stickhandling has regressed too. Ward, however, is a smart player and breaks for the puck earlier than others which makes up for some of the speed and agility that he lacks.

As for Hollweg - on the PK, I've been an advocate of having him play there, but he's only player there 7 minutes all season, and my take on the PK is that any guy who can skate, or be smart, can play the PK. I wanted him there because I don't want Shanny there. An in the end, he seems to be a fourth liner to me, which would afford him a few less minutes of ice time (i.e., not on Betts' left wing). Problem is, there is no replacement for him, so given what this team looks like, right now it doesn't matter where he plays since the third and fourth lines are similar, except the third plays more than the fourth.

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01-09-2007, 03:42 PM
  #47
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So your saying you don't think Jason Ward is a good skater? I think thats the best part of his game.
Good skater? Yes. "Great, Great" skater"? No

I think he's a good enough skater to stick in the NHL, but Hollweg isn't a slow poke so to me that's not really something that I'd say is a huge upgrade.

Quote:
I don't feel Hollwegs game will be missed if we bring in anohter player who is willing to take the body like he does. Again the question of this thread was would I deal Hollweg for a 2nd line center and I don't care how much he hits I made that deal(depending the center coming back of course).
Well that's a pretty vague statement. That's like saying "Well Shanahan wouldn't be missed if he we could find another 6'3, 220 pound player who fights, scores and leads."

Hollweg is not just a guy who hits, he is one of THE hardest hitters in hockey and EVERY team in the league knows when he is out there.

And while the question as whether you'd trade Hollweg for a second line center, you're comments have included:

Quote:
Hollweg- Hits (and usually gets called for a penalty for it too).
Which as we've seen from his stats isn't true and is rather manageable for the style he plays.

Quote:
He brings nothing else to this team, nothing. He is the most replaceable guy in the lineup. He is what he is, a 4th liner who can't score which means he doesn't belong in the NHL. I think we could find a much better player than him to do what that roll calls for.
Which is also not true because I can think of several guys who bring less (which I went into in my first post).

Also what player you'd like to replace him with who is going to do what he does.

He hits, he fights, he sticks up for teammates, gets other guys off their game, he plays both ends of the ice, gets his teammates and fans into the game and can play the PK.

If anything his one flaw is the scoring. Is everything he does not worth the meager point toals of Hossa or Ward or Wall?

You're right the team can't have all of them in the same lineup, but to say Hollweg is replaceable and doesn't belong in the NHL is simply assanine.


Quote:
Why is it everyone thinks only Hollweg is capable of being a physical player for this team? There are tons of guys in the league like him that bring much more to the table than JUST the hitting.
And they aren't here.

And you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of guys who hit as hard as Hollweg and even if you do, how much are you willing to give up for maybe all of 5 additional goals.

And again we talked about what he does in addition to hitting.

Quote:
Hollweg= replacable.
2nd line > Hollweg.
That's all well and good, but replaced with who?

And you've turned the question from trading Hollweg for a second line center into comments that guy isn't even NHL worthy and does nothing BUT hit.

That's a no brainer, if you don't think the guy is even an NHL player of course a second line center is better than him.

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01-09-2007, 03:55 PM
  #48
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You know what Edge...

and perhaps Renney should do more of this, is when the Rangers are floundering to get something going - throw Hollweg out there with Jagr for a shift or two, or Shanny for a shift or two, and let him hit top four defensemen. Let him cause a turnover or two. Let him bring his energy to a shift on a line that has otherwised floundered.

There's a way to use guys effectively. I'm an advocate of playing guys on a third line (getting more ice time) that score a bit more (but acknowledge that absent scoring, might as well have a guy who can hit). But bring these guys into the game more. There's a way to divvy up ice time in games that makes sense. It does involved thinking out of the box and changing things during the game, but for a shift to possible jumpstart the team and get something going? Why not?

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01-09-2007, 04:41 PM
  #49
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Which is my thought on the matter.

The hard question is whether all of these guys are as offensivly challanged as they've shown or whether they are that offensivly challanged because they are playing together.

In other words you essentially have 6 guys who are limited offensivly (Hall, Ward, Betts, Hollweg, Hossa, Ortmeyer). But is that magnified because they are all together on the same team?

Would having a guy like Cullen on the third line help those guys (whoever they end up being), etc.

Sometimes it's not so much about abilities as finding guys who together are better than they are apart and I think that's something we haven't seen on the third/fourth lines yet.

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01-09-2007, 04:46 PM
  #50
DutchShamrock
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Thank you, Edge. You basically summed up the truth of this thread in one post... the truth of our bottom 6 forwards and the motives of this thread.

Of course Hollweg is replaceable. As Edge said anyone is replaceable as long as you bring in something else that is needed and the package is of a greater or equal value. But Radek, your point is that Hollweg is useless and that simply isn't the case. I still think you are seeing what you want to see, not only in Hollweg but also in the other bottom 6 forwards. If a team came to me offering a 2nd line center I'd gladly give up anything on the bottom 2 lines. And as valuable as Hollweg is, even he won't fetch a 2nd line center. Hossa wouldn't, Ward wouldn't and Betts wouldn't.

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