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Wed., Dec. 11, 2013|Flyers 2 at Blackhawks 7

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:53 PM
  #26
Flyerfan4life
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Originally Posted by King Forsberg View Post
I got tickets to the game tomorrow. I'm just hoping for a good fight at this point.
sell ur tix..

go to a pub and enjoy some booze...

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:54 PM
  #27
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At this point, I would almost welcome a Giroux trade just so people can see how ****ed this team would be without him. What a loser bunch of people in this fan base sometimes.

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12-11-2013, 09:55 PM
  #28
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Since it was asked, Striiker:

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That's how I'm seeing it right now, too. I'd say the Vinny was also playing pretty well when he wasn't injured, with the exception of a couple pretty poor turnovers/defensive plays. I also don't agree with a lot of the B.Schenn hate. People keep saying he's "invisible" but he's not exactly playing with some playmakers who are giving him chances to score. A lot of the time when he has a chance he buries it. nobody ever responds when I say it so I'm curious about you think, I really want Schenn to be given an opportunity on the 1st line with Giroux for a while.
Lecavalier is very disappointing on the face-off circle which is a big minus about him considering one of the big appeals of the signing was his face-off ability. Without it all he has is some offensive production since he's a liability with two-way play often enough and he's in and out of the lineup. So it's hard to be happy with him either overall.

The thing about Schenn is that he really is invisible out there. People refer to eye tests because it's an easy way to tell when a player makes bad mistakes or great plays. Schenn is never making either it seems. The eye test is the same thing that let me know Giroux was going to be great before he was great and putting up points on paper. The eye test also let me (and others obviously) let me know that Couturier is a big part of this team and a special player despite his lack of appearing on the score or stat sheet. I could go on, but you get the point. People refer to Schenn's point production constantly, but coming from a guy that watches just about every game (myself) and many others he doesn't seem to do anything to a be a big contributor to it. Sometimes players get "lucky" for lack of a better term with scoring and that seems to be happening with Schenn. I wasn't a fan of him before we acquired him and I'm still not, but he most definitely have the best ability to finish chances in the slot out of our entire lineup.

Normally Schenn would be worth trying with Giroux and I really don't know why it hasn't been tried yet, but it's a pretty big desperation move in reality. If you move him that makes a pretty non-existent second line considering that Lecavalier is out and we can't break up the Couturier line for now (if they don't get back to dominating form then we can talk about it). People don't talk about it, but our forward prospect pool is extremely weak and has been for a long while. It's why we're arguing about whether guys like McGinn, Straka, or Akeson should be called up over each other and why Raffl is on a scoring line. It's also why if we move Schenn to Giroux it's just going to put a big onus on the Couturier line and Giroux line to produce while we have two other lines that are just complete messes.

So, even if this sounds defeatist or overly negative, I don't care. Kind of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. It is puzzling why Schenn hasn't been moved off the second line at any point though. Pretty much every player besides him has been tested around the lineup.

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12-11-2013, 09:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
At this point, I would almost welcome a Giroux trade just so people can see how ****ed this team would be without him. What a loser bunch of people in this fan base sometimes.
I know he is our best. But he is not paid to be our best player. He is paid to be a top 10 player.

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12-11-2013, 09:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
This is the most hopeless Flyers team I've ever watched in my life. Even with the 06-07 team you knew there was a solid core there that was capable of going far in the playoffs in the future. This team doesn't have that in the slightest. No one would really be untouchable for me outside of Couturier and probably Mason. It's nice to have a good power play specialist, but that guy shouldn't be your captain and franchise player.
Except he's clearly the teams best player who isn't being used correctly. You can't put a playmaker with two people who can't finish, pass, or do anything correctly. Harntell and Voracek don't belong on the first line of any team.

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:57 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Legion of Goon View Post
At least B Schenn was not invisible tonight, he might have been one of our better players, he had some good chances to bad he could not finish.

The Penalty on L Schenn was total Bull Crap, I see PK Suban do that all the time and he comes he comes from halfway across the ice.

The announcers really got on my nerves this game
B Schenn was one of only three Flyers to not be a minus tonight and the only one to play significant minutes. He also lead the team in hits, picked up a point, didn't have any giveaways and even played a little pk. He had a solid game but people are still complaining about him.

Also just saw the replay on the Luke hit and I don't know what anyone was *****ing about. Overall I didn't think he had a very bad game and he logged just over 19 minutes.

How was Mez overall? I only got to see bits and pieces of the game.

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12-11-2013, 09:58 PM
  #32
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Lol. Team was all awful, but Emery was the leader. His lateral movement is actually sad. He's finished.
He's been the backup goalie for a reason. I guess Berube thought the'd have some extra motivation against his former team, but if you're going to start him against a team like the Blackhawks and then play bad defense, this is what's going to happen. Emery's been fine in his role overall this year.

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:58 PM
  #33
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I know he is our best. But he is not paid to be our best player. He is paid to be a top 10 player.
Cool. I'm glad his down stretch has convinced you that he isn't. This is Richards/Carter all over again. You would think people would have learned after the misery of 2012.

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12-11-2013, 09:58 PM
  #34
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Tampa fans said Vinny can't stay healthy. Isles fans said Streit sucked. **** me.

Couts , Laughton, our 1st and G are only I wouldn't want traded, open to anyone else if we get speed and skill as returns. Prefer to keep Mase and Read, but wouldn't lose sleep if they went.

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12-11-2013, 09:59 PM
  #35
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if Phaneuf hits FA you give him +7m

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
At this point, I would almost welcome a Giroux trade just so people can see how ****ed this team would be without him. What a loser bunch of people in this fan base sometimes.
Same here. Trade him, watch him win his Cup, rinse and repeat

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12-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #37
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I watched part of the first period then dozed off. I woke up to find it 5-2, flipped to a special on PBS during the intermission. By the time I came back, it was 7-2. I'd guess I actually watched about 10 minutes of game time--and I can't say I'm disappointed.


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Old
12-11-2013, 10:01 PM
  #38
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I'm not going to talk about the numerous flaws with the lineup as I pointed them out and got mad about them very early on in the season. I'm also pretty apathetic with it right now so I don't care as much.

However, I'm not a fan of Berube anymore. I was giving him a chance before, but this was it for me. We have the Chicago Blackhawks today and then Montreal Canadiens tomorrow and he makes the complete opposite decision that he should and decided to start Emery against Chicago and Mason against Montreal (presumably). To top it off when Emery starting inevitably backfires he puts Mason in way after the game is already lost with only less then a period to go and now we have a game tomorrow against an Eastern opponent and both our goalies played tonight and didn't do well.

His lineup decisions are also ****ing maddening and nonsensical. When he got hired he went on and on about accountability but that's proven to be complete crap by now. Rosehill and Rinaldo can do as much stupid crap as they want or bring as little to the game as possible yet he thinks it's fine to not bench them and even play them at the same time. Those two shouldn't be playing at the same time even when they are playing well and not doing stupid stuff. Then Meszaros is the Golden Boy apparently and despite having no future and never playing well he can't get a ticket out of the lineup. Meanwhile our own homegrown young talent with the skillset that is much more usable gets sat for having a few turnovers in one game and can't buy a ticket into the lineup.

Also, what in the **** was the Gill signing for? Like, does anyone besides me even remember that he's signed and on the roster technically? That must be the easiest ****ing paycheck ever. Just fly in airplanes and watch hockey games in a press box my God.

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12-11-2013, 10:02 PM
  #39
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Paul Holmgren likes this team..you should too...

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:02 PM
  #40
Garbage Goal
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Also, none of us had hope going into this, but what the **** do any of us expect when we have Rinaldo, Rosehill, Meszaros, and Emery all playing at once?

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12-11-2013, 10:02 PM
  #41
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Sorry guys this loss is on me.

Miss the whole first period. Turn on just as the second period is starting. Two goals later I change the channel. Put game back on and 'Oh sweet on the PP even this up' and 30 seconds later SH goal against. 'Am I bad luck? Should I stop watching?' Change the channel again. Can't stay away turn game back on. 'Nice. 3-2. We're still in this thing.' 35 seconds later Versteeg. 'Ok clearly I'm bad luck. I'm done here for the night.' Change channel again. 'Time to put daughter to bed. Maybe I should just check the score before I take her up.' I change the channel to hear "Goal scored by Jonathan Toews . . . " Change channel. A few minuets after I finish putting her to bed. 'Maybe I should just check the score again in case a come back is on!' Change channel "Goal scored by Patrick Sharp . . . " Game off for good.

I watched less than 5 minuets of the game and saw 4 goals against and heard the PA announce 2 others. I'm bad luck. Again, sorry guys.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:02 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
At this point, I would almost welcome a Giroux trade just so people can see how ****ed this team would be without him. What a loser bunch of people in this fan base sometimes.
He is as offensively talented as they come—although his numbers say otherwise—but he is not captain material, or first line center material. He is a first line wing, pp specialist—a poor mans Patrick Kane. Danny Briere gets dirtier than Giroux in the offensive zone. Use your stick, strip pucks, wrap-arounds, or wait for Hartnell to flub a shot. Our Captain is a passenger.

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12-11-2013, 10:03 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I watched part of the first period then dozed off. I woke up to find it 5-2, flipped to a special on PBS during the intermission. By the time I came back, it was 7-2. I'd guess I actually watched about 10 minutes of game time--and I can't say I'm disappointed.

Same, score 1-0, watch Criminal Minds, score is 5-2

Not surprised at all though. This team is mediocre at best, who had great goaltending carrying them or keeping them in games.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Cool. I'm glad his down stretch has convinced you that he isn't. This is Richards/Carter all over again. You would think people would have learned after the misery of 2012.
We all know carter and richards were not traded because of performance So stop with this revisionist history.

Giroux had 1 year, just 1 where he was a top 10 player and that year he was in a system that suited his offense of style. But players have to 200 feet these days and now berube is making him more conscious of the other end and look how much his scoring has gone down.

It is clear as day bro. It isn't like Giroux is having a bad year. It's worst than that. He has no impact on the game, and looks physically overmatched out there.

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12-11-2013, 10:04 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Captain Perimeter 28 View Post
He is as offensively talented as they come—although his numbers say otherwise—but he is not captain material, or first line center material. He is a first line wing, pp specialist—a poor mans Patrick Kane. Danny Briere gets dirtier than Giroux in the offensive zone. Use your stick, strip pucks, wrap-arounds, or wait for Hartnell to flub a shot. Our Captain is a passenger.
love the screenname.

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12-11-2013, 10:04 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Also, none of us had hope going into this, but what the **** do any of us expect when we have Rinaldo, Rosehill, Meszaros, and Emery all playing at once?
That's crazy , 4 fringe Nhl players all vs Nhl top team. Ouch.

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12-11-2013, 10:05 PM
  #47
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Except he's clearly the teams best player who isn't being used correctly. You can't put a playmaker with two people who can't finish, pass, or do anything correctly. Harntell and Voracek don't belong on the first line of any team.
He has not been this team's best forward, let alone player this year, not by a long shot. Both Read and Couturier have been significantly better and both would be outscoring Giroux if their power play times were reversed.

Hartnell and Voracek have sucked, you won't hear any arguments there from me. However, Giroux has sucked just as much as they have. People here act like he's giving them tap ins and they're blowing it, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah, they have no chemistry and I've wanted the lines changed for about 20 games now, but that still doesn't mean that Giroux hasn't been terrible.

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12-11-2013, 10:06 PM
  #48
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This is the Flyers. What you are watching is not a mirage. The checking system Berube put in place works if you have good all around hockey players(ala, Couturier). When your wings are occupied by puds with little technical skill, you need solid centers with high hockey IQs. Giroux is missing the 21rst chromosome in center speak: his defensive awareness and overall understanding of the position, outside of occupying the left dot on the PP, is not up to snuff. That is glossing over the fact that he is our chosen leader... I think he would be better suited to play on 40's wing where he wouldn't have to think the game, and would be afforded the opportunity to occupy the wall dangling away—cross ice passes all day.
not a bad idea, maybe not for right now, but down the road, move him back to wing

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12-11-2013, 10:07 PM
  #49
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Wake up to Holmer resigning and Harts gone. Gonna happen

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12-11-2013, 10:10 PM
  #50
Striiker
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Since it was asked, Striiker:



Lecavalier is very disappointing on the face-off circle which is a big minus about him considering one of the big appeals of the signing was his face-off ability. Without it all he has is some offensive production since he's a liability with two-way play often enough and he's in and out of the lineup. So it's hard to be happy with him either overall.

The thing about Schenn is that he really is invisible out there. People refer to eye tests because it's an easy way to tell when a player makes bad mistakes or great plays. Schenn is never making either it seems. The eye test is the same thing that let me know Giroux was going to be great before he was great and putting up points on paper. The eye test also let me (and others obviously) let me know that Couturier is a big part of this team and a special player despite his lack of appearing on the score or stat sheet. I could go on, but you get the point. People refer to Schenn's point production constantly, but coming from a guy that watches just about every game (myself) and many others he doesn't seem to do anything to a be a big contributor to it. Sometimes players get "lucky" for lack of a better term with scoring and that seems to be happening with Schenn. I wasn't a fan of him before we acquired him and I'm still not, but he most definitely have the best ability to finish chances in the slot out of our entire lineup.

Normally Schenn would be worth trying with Giroux and I really don't know why it hasn't been tried yet, but it's a pretty big desperation move in reality. If you move him that makes a pretty non-existent second line considering that Lecavalier is out and we can't break up the Couturier line for now (if they don't get back to dominating form then we can talk about it). People don't talk about it, but our forward prospect pool is extremely weak and has been for a long while. It's why we're arguing about whether guys like McGinn, Straka, or Akeson should be called up over each other and why Raffl is on a scoring line. It's also why if we move Schenn to Giroux it's just going to put a big onus on the Couturier line and Giroux line to produce while we have two other lines that are just complete messes.

So, even if this sounds defeatist or overly negative, I don't care. Kind of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. It is puzzling why Schenn hasn't been moved off the second line at any point though. Pretty much every player besides him has been tested around the lineup.
I see what you're saying. I think everyone has come to terms with the fact that Schenn is never becoming a superstar like advertised, but I still want to see him on the first line for a while just to see what happens. The second line would be pretty dead but it's not like it was really working to begin with. If it doesn't work with Schenn on the first line then there's really no difference, but if it does then I'd rather have only two good lines than one good line and two merely OK lines. Yes, it would be a desperation move, but what do they have to lose?At this point I'm in favor of anything that removes Hartnell from the first line so they at least have chance.

The forward prospect pool is pretty horrible outside of Laughton, and like I said before, I'm not under the impression that Straka or Akeson would be successful here. I just think there's nothing to lose by giving them the chance that McGinn has done nothing with.

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